Can catholics be masons?

[DallasTexas]

The Church has answered that question. The references have been provided ad nauseum.

– Mark L. Chance.

Mark,

Thank you for your post.

To which reference are you referring.

I’ve been to John Salza’s website and have not found anything that I would consider both true and substantial.

I’ve read the papal documents… dido the above.

I have not seen a reference yet that I see as viable and substantial.

Once again, thank you for your post.

 

[mlchance]

I have not seen a reference yet that I see as viable and substantial.

The defect is in your vision, not in the Church’s teaching. Disobedience is a sin. No number of excuses will change these facts.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[DallasTexas]

you ARE the company you keep…you agree by your membership. In so far as you are a member, you subscribe to the organizational views of the entity…

Coda,

I work at a company that employees people from all cultures and religions… I work with and am friends with catholic, protestants, jews, hindus etc.

Do I subscribe to all of these views as well–we do work for the same company?

Thank you for your post.

 

[Rleng616]

The references may be numerous, but the explanations (which are the only important things) give rise to more questions. One of the articles stated that Catholics cannot be masons because masonry is a religion unto itself. I don’t think a religion would demand that it’s members have a religion in order to join. The reasoning in those articles you posted are formed on misconceptions and conspiracy theories, which confuse me even more.

There are no misconceptions or theories here; 12 (Twelve) Popes have condemned Freemasonry over the last 250 years on the grounds that Masonry’s teachings are incompatible with Catholic faith and morals.

The SPECIFIC grounds of the Popes are found here in a book that has the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, which are declarations of the Church that a published book or pamphlet is free of doctrinal or moral error.

“Why Catholics Cannot be Masons” by John Salza, a noted Catholic apologist and former 32nd Degree Scottish Rite Freemason and Shriner. tanbooks.com/ He was a member of two Masonic Lodges in Milwaukee, serving as Junior Deacon, Senior Deacon and Junior Warden.

Bob

 

[Celtic_FC]

Question should ask, “Do Masons allow Catholics?” The answer is a definite no, and if you know anything about Masons, then you understand why.

 

[Shin]

I will note that JOHN SALZA is on EWTN right now at 10PM EST speaking about freemasonry.

One of the things he is declaring: It is a religion, and masons and Popes say it is that.

 

[Shin]

For those who missed the show you can purchase it at:

womenofgrace.com/catalog/

There are two shows with John Salza appearing discussing Masonry.

You can also purchase John’s books, ‘Masonry Unmasked’ and ‘Why Catholics Cannot be Masons’ through the site.

One of the points John Salza makes is a certain spiritual blindness engendered by the oaths that Masons take – These contractual oaths can have real spiritual consequences – but for men hesitant to break the promises of freemasonry, there is a higher calling that breaks and overrides all the promises of men – the calling to obey the Lord Our God.

John Salza started out in his study of the Catholic condemnations of Freemasonry with the intention of becoming an apologist for Freemasonry, hoping to reconcile it with Catholicism. But John thought that to do it properly he had to empty himself out, and walk in the shoes of the arguements against it of the Popes – so he could properly understand them and debate against them. This very act of emptying himself out he sees as key in his conversion.

All Catholics are advised they are in a state of grave sin if they are involved in Freemasonry, due to numerous principles – its oaths, tenets, and regular practices.

We must pray for people involved in Masonry so they will have the spiritual strength to break free of the bonds of it! And if you are involved in it, please attempt to empty yourself out, and walk in the view of the perspective against it to properly understand it… you just may experience a realization in your soul of the seriousness of the matters involved. You have my prayers.

May the Lord bless us and give us light to see.

“This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is
become the head of the corner.” Acts 4:11

"Jesus said to them, “Did you never read in the scriptures: ‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; by the Lord has this been done, and it is wonderful in our eyes’?” Matthew 21:42

 

[Celtic_FC]

I work with a Mason and he doesn’t even tell his wife what goes on at the meetings. My boss jokes around with him all the time asking how many people or goats he’s sacrificed.

 

[afriendofGod]

OKAY getting back off the brief tangent? If you were considering joining the masons- DONT. I presume you dont need to delve any further into your research on the organization since it has been clearly spelled out for you…? If you are still confused ,ask your priest for a very precise dissertation on why Catholics are forbidden to join secret organizations.

A. I agree with Coda, but I wonder why is this topic still being discussed. A Catholic gives his heart entirely to Christ, and lives entirely in the Heart of Christ! In that Heart, there is no room for another allegiance, especially a dark self-serving organization, like Freemasonry! Just look at their history. Most of these people were after power, or money, or prestige. Several were U.S. Presidents. Others were British lords and kings. Still others, like Rothshild were and still are deeply into Mammon. They all were too busy looking for everything, except Christ! That’s not the way of the Catholics! We imitate Our Lord in all things! Our Lord slept in stables and caves! He lacked His own home and often went hungry. He renounced all glamor of the world, and chose as “throne” the Cross! We draw near to Him by our every thought and act! There is absolutely no place here for dark conspiracies of any kind!

 

[redrosetea]

someone at mass today told me that we can.

Why would you want to be?

 

[celticsfan1983]

Well thank God. Now if someone asks me to join the masons, I have a very valid excuse for saying No!

 

[Jerry_Marino]

masonry is a good trade but seeing how the housing market is today would be wise to get into the mason business?

 

[DallasTexas]

I just watched the EWTN episode with John Salza on YouTube. It is out there posted in 6 parts–unfortunately the latest one, from earlier this week, is not out there yet.

It was interesting and disappointing to see the story he puts forth for why he left and is now against Freemasonry.

**John starts off by saying that he was “solicited” to join Freemasonry. He referred to this as “the solicitation process.” **

I find it very hard to believe that the Freemasons were “recruiting” John to the extent that he would like us to believe. In all of my 32 degrees, I have not been made aware of any recruiting and or solicitation process. In fact, it is prohibited. In order to be a Mason, one must ask a Mason (sometimes more than once).

**John said that one of the reasons he got involved was for “business opportunities.” **

This is a very selfish reason to join Freemasonry and is not what the fraternity is about. He was asked about his motives before joining Freemasonry. The reply of business opportunities would not have passed muster. I feel certain that John would not have been admitted into Freemasonry if his reason for joining was “business opportunities.”

John went on to say, while revealing part of a degree ceremony, that he was asked to remove his ring, crucifix, and scapula. He posed the question of why would the fraternity ask him to remove these items of such great importance had and reminders of his faith.

John knows the ceremony that follows. I was surprised when he brought this up as an issue–especially knowing why he was asked to divest himself of all articles of metal.

Furthermore, I believe that the covenant of marriage and the belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior should always be present regardless of the presence of a piece of jewelry.

**John stated that Freemasonry rejects Jesus Christ because it does not teach that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior and the only way to heaven. **

Neither do the Boy Scouts, the Rotary Club, any Fortune 500 company, the US Government, etc. However I do not see John writing books about and speaking out against these organizations and how they are against Christ?

**John said that when first started questioning the stance of the Church because he wanted to be an apologist for Freemasonry. **

If John is as proficient in Freemasonry as he says he is (and I believe he is), he would know that on of the charges of the 2nd degree is not to defend the fraternity. That’s right. Freemasons are tasked with turning to other cheek when others barrage insults and lies against them and the organization. An apologist for Freemasonry would be doing exactly what he has been told not to do…

I have discussed the topic of John Salza with Catholic men who were previously Freemasons and have left because of their discovery of the Church’s stance on the organization.

We share mutual feelings about the motives for Mr. Salza’s actions.

Please note that John discussed much more than the above listed items. If anyone would like to discuss one in particular, I would be most interested in doing so.

Thank you my brothers and sisters in Christ for taking the time to read my post!

 

[coda]

Coda,

I work at a company that employees people from all cultures and religions… I work with and am friends with catholic, protestants, jews, hindus etc.

Do I subscribe to all of these views as well–we do work for the same company?

Thank you for your post.

Obviously you still CHOOSE not to see the point. Now you are comparing apples to oranges…where you work has no bearing [usually] on your particular views or participation in the functional organization of the entity–joining a forbidden organization that requires your implied complicity is vastly different! Doing so against a directive of your faithwhile fully aware of the consequences} is disturbing. In addition , the Church never PRECLUDED you from employment wherever you work. I’m guessing this will go right over your head though–denial is a powerful obstacle.

 

[DallasTexas]

The defect is in your vision, not in the Church’s teaching. Disobedience is a sin. No number of excuses will change these facts.

– Mark L. Chance.

Mark,

Thank you for your comments on my posting.

Que Cristo te bendiga!

 

[DallasTexas]

Obviously you still CHOOSE not to see the point. Now you are comparing apples to oranges…where you work has no bearing [usually] on your particular views or participation in the functional organization of the entity–joining a forbidden organization that requires your implied complicity is vastly different! Doing so against a directive of your faith[while fully aware of the consequences} is disturbing. In addition , the Church never PRECLUDED you from employment wherever you work. I’m guessing this will go right over your head though–denial is a powerful obstacle.

Thank you coda,

I appreciate your opinion and your posting.

Que Dios te bendiga!

Saludos,
[/quote]

 

[coda]

Thank you coda,

I appreciate your opinion and your posting.

Que Dios te bendiga!

Saludos,

Fellow Catholics are really trying to help… It would be terrible if on judgement day, God said" So, getting back to this masonic business-- Son I know you got the memo, so my hands are kinda tied here…"

 

[Daedelus76]

It’s enlightening to read this stuff… I didn’t know Catholics were still very anti-Masonic.

My grandparents were both Masons. They didn’t dislike Catholics. Nor did they talk about taking over the world or worshipping the Devil. There’s alot of conspiracy theory stuff about Masons, exaggerations and half-truths. Masons started as a men’s club for people that were tired of religious bickering in northern Europe that killed many, many people. They wanted to focus on shared values instead of divisions. The “occult” edge was added later by misinformed “scholars” and theosophists who tried to read stuff into the rituals that wasn’t there. Alot of founders of the US were Masons, and the Enlightenment ideals of human rights, equality, and reason helped establish the US as a country with the democratic, pluralistic norms we enjoy today.

At one time Christianity was regarded as a cult, because they had secret, unusual rituals that were easily misunderstood. Lots of members of the church condemned humanism, such as the works of Pico di Mirandola who had the audacity to suggest that human beings had a basic nature of goodness, all the while the church was engaged in barbacues of human beings, many of whom were defenseless and powerless in society, only condemned on heresay and prejudice. And of course, the Papal Concordat with Nazi Germany, a sign of a great moral failure to confront evil which lead to the deaths of 12 million innocent people. There are people of goodwill that disagree strongly with the Catholic church’s position on contraception, especially in light of the tragedy of AIDS and poverty in the developing world. I can respect the Catholic church having their own rules and prohibitions against participating in “mysteries” outside their church, but triumphalism is moral blindness.

 

[Shin]

It’s enlightening to read this stuff… I didn’t know Catholics were still very anti-Masonic.

My grandparents were both Masons. They didn’t dislike Catholics. Nor did they talk about taking over the world or worshipping the Devil. There’s alot of conspiracy theory stuff about Masons, exaggerations and half-truths. Masons started as a men’s club for people that were tired of religious bickering in northern Europe that killed many, many people. They wanted to focus on shared values instead of divisions. The “occult” edge was added later by misinformed “scholars” and theosophists who tried to read stuff into the rituals that wasn’t there. Alot of founders of the US were Masons, and the Enlightenment ideals of human rights, equality, and reason helped establish the US as a country with the democratic, pluralistic norms we enjoy today.

At one time Christianity was regarded as a cult, because they had secret, unusual rituals that were easily misunderstood. Lots of members of the church condemned humanism, such as the works of Pico di Mirandola who had the audacity to suggest that human beings had a basic nature of goodness, all the while the church was engaged in barbacues of human beings, many of whom were defenseless and powerless in society, only condemned on heresay and prejudice. And of course, the Papal Concordat with Nazi Germany, a sign of a great moral failure to confront evil which lead to the deaths of 12 million innocent people. There are people of goodwill that disagree strongly with the Catholic church’s position on contraception, especially in light of the tragedy of AIDS and poverty in the developing world. I can respect the Catholic church having their own rules and prohibitions against participating in “mysteries” outside their church, but triumphalism is moral blindness.

You are mentioning things diverting from the topic, and display ignorance of the fact that the Church signs ‘concordats’ with all major governments to guarantee the freedom of the Catholics in that country to worship. So I don’t think you know what a concordat is. Nor do I think you understand AIDs, which is made worse by contraception which does not protect against it, but in fact spreads it. If you wish to discuss these issues – start a different thread.

As for triumphalism and moral blindness… I think what we just got from you here is that.

We have the testimony of many, many people as to the problems regarding Masonry.

 

[DallasTexas]

Question should ask, “Do Masons allow Catholics?” The answer is a definite no, and if you know anything about Masons, then you understand why.

Celtic_FC,

Thank you for your post.

Please elaborate on your statement; I’m not understanding your point.

The lodge of which I am a member has a number of Catholic member. Most of my Latino brothers share the faith with me.

I am aware of one active Jewish member as well.

Thank you again.