Can our democracy survive if most Republicans think the government is illegitimate?

  • Thread starter Thread starter PaulinVA
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
First, in a winner-take-all presidential system, Americans are increasingly subject to minority rule. Since 1992, with a single exception (in 2004), no Republican presidential candidate has won a majority of the popular vote.
Every president in my lifetime has won a majority of the electors in the electoral college. The claim that this is minority rule is false. Trump won thirty states. That is a majority. He won 306 electoral votes. That is a majority.
The national plebiscite is a non-factor because it is not the way we select the president. The states do, because the states created the constitution.
They created a constitutional representative republic, not a majoritarian democracy.
 
Well, yeah. He was convicted of lying about contact with the Russians, which he had…
Which is evidence of a lousy lawyer. He broke no law as incoming national security adviser by contacting officials from any country. Biden appointees have been doing the same since mid-November.
Okay, true if that’s the low bar you want to set. I expect more of a President.
I consider the constitution to be the highest governmental bar in human history. From there, the people through their states determine who should fill the position. And remarkably, considering his obnoxious personality, he did a very good job.
 
The states do, because the states created the constitution.
No they didn’t. It was created by the people.

Your argument is the same one that was used by secessionists, and later anti-civil rights state legislatures and governors (Ross Barnett, George Wallace, etc.).
 
Every president in my lifetime has won a majority of the electors in the electoral college.
😀
The claim that this is minority rule is false
😡
Trump won thirty states. That is a majority.
My county has more residents than seven or eight individual states, so using states as some sort of benchmark doesn’t prove anything. If anything it proves the point of the article about minority rule.
They created a constitutional representative republic, not a majoritarian democracy.
Once again, totally understood and the point of the article. Minority rule. People. Minority of people.
 
No they didn’t. It was created by the people.
Through the states. That process is now codified in Article V. We don’t have a national plebiscite for anything. That’s a good thing.
Your argument is the same one that was used by secessionists, and later anti-civil rights state legislatures and governors (Ross Barnett, George Wallace, etc.).
My argument is not the argument of Democrats.
It is the argument from the constitution.
If you have evidence of a national plebiscite for something in American government, let me know.
 
Do you have any sources for these allegations from experts qualified to interpret the results?

These are all essentially blogs.
The Epoch Times is not a blog.

Don’t believe it if one doesn’t want to, fine.
 
Last edited:
By the end of today, no matter what anyone feels about it, Biden will be the official President elect. People can go to their grave in denial if they wish but it’s much healthier to just accept and move on. We will all survive this unlike Covid for many.
That’s totally false, it will not be decided until January 6th. Congress needs to certify it. False.
 
My county has more residents than seven or eight individual states, so using states as some sort of benchmark doesn’t prove anything.
States are the only benchmark, because the states choose the president through the electoral college. They are called states for a reason, that reason being we are a federation of states. They aren’t provinces created by an all powerful central government.
If anything it proves the point of the article about minority rule.
It is possible that a minors of states could decide a president, but again, it would be a majority of electors.
Once again, totally understood and the point of the article. Minority rule. People. Minority of people.
We do not elect a president by a direct plebiscite. The national plebiscite is irrelevant.
As it should be.
 
Last edited:
That’s totally false, it will not be decided until January 6th. Congress needs to certify it. False.
While the Congress has that requirement and obligation, for them to overturn the electoral college, which is where the people through their states have spoken, would be a monumental constitutional crisis.
Biden is going to be the 46th president. Right now we need to focus our efforts and donations on winning the Georgia senate races
 
@JonNC , decades ago in college, as a Poli Sci minor, I took a course on the American Presidency. Really interesting.

One day the professor talked about the Electoral College and did a ten minute soliloquy on why one party was in favor of keeping the E C. It was hilarious. It basically boiled down to, “Well, by keeping it I have a chance of getting my candidates elected”.

I know all about the Electoral College. I’ve heard people arguing for literally decades about how it’s such a great thing and how we don’t have a direct democracy, etc.

I get it. BUT, it favors one party over the other and lets a minority of people elect a President. I don’t get why people can’t admit that.
 
Last edited:
One day the professor talked about the Electoral College and did a ten minute soliloquy on why one party was in favor of keeping the E C. It was hilarious. It basically boiled down to, “Well, by keeping it I have a chance of getting my candidates elected”.
Then your professor was dishonest with you. It boils down to the states deciding the president. Because we are a constitutional representative republic.
50 years ago, California was a solid Republican state. When I went to college in the early 70’s, Texas was solid Democrat.
It has nothing to do with political parties.
I get it. BUT, it favors one party over the other and lets a minority of people elect a President. I don’t get why people can’t admit that.
People don’t elect the president, so no, it has nothing to do with numbers of people. The states elect the president. As I mentioned to Bill, there is no provision anywhere in the constitution for any plebiscite. That is codified in Article V. In fact, the states can completely dismantle the general government if they choose to. Because the states set the constitution up
 
Last edited:
It has nothing to do with political parties.
But one party has more to gain by keeping it, and another has more to gain by ditching it, right?

It seems like it has a lot to do with political parties.
 
@JonNC , yeah, yeah, yeah.

But will you admit that right now it favors one part of the country, one party, over the other?
 
Last edited:
I think the question in the OP gets the situation wrong. I don’t think the majority of Republicans think that Biden is illegitimate. I think the majority of Republicans are deeply disappointed in the outcome of the election, and they are expressing that disappointment by answering “yes” to the question when asked.

Elected officials have a different issue - they are bending the knee to Trump on the issue out of fear.

I think (or at least hope) the situation will regularize when Trump is out of office and we all move on with our lives.
 
Right now? It appears to favor Republicans. Wait ten years. It could change
Hey, thanks.

I think the divide between the rural states and the urban ones will continue, but I guess once the Republican Party sorts itself out things could be different.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top