(Capitol of Armenia) Yerevan Claims Turkish Jet Downed Armenia Plane As Fighting With Azerbaijani Forces Intensify

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Victoria33 said:
I mean real action on them in numerous countries, but one example. I don’t care to single countries out who do this too much but it’s not altogether rare.
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And why do you suppose that the police are raiding these areas? “They searched for stolen vehicles and checked residency papers.Ten people were arrested, 25 cars impounded” Why do you suppose they arrested 10 people and impounded 25 cars?
PS: Have you had any experience with Roma?
In one area I know about, there was a beautiful and clean park. Beautiful ducks swimming about until the Roma came and chopped off their heads and grilled them right there in the park, leaving all their filthy garbage behind.
 
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Victoria33 said:
Still doesn’t matter
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That’s your opinion. Others would like to have a decent park where children and adults can relax in a clean and beautiful setting. How much experience have you had with Roma?
Victoria33 said:
The Nazis committed genocide against them
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That was the Nazis. No one is committing genocide against them today, but people don’t like it when their car is missing in the morning (and later see it sitting in a Roma area) or when they see so many bloody bodies of beheaded ducks in their park.
Victoria33 said:
The UN has documented how they are discriminated against on a widescale basis.
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How much experience have you or the bureaucrats at the UN had with Roma? Have you ever taught a mixed school class of Roma and locals? How many Roma do you know or how many Roma have lived near you. Instead of whining about how badly Roma are treated why don’t you go to the Roma areas and try to help them out and then report back to us as to how successful you were?
 
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The topic is Armenia/Azerbaijan. I don’t need to put any group under a microscope. I brought it up, yes. I’m sure there are plenty of groups, probably all we can talk about their crime rate. I’m not going to continue this.
 
Victoria33 said:
I don’t need to put any group under a microscope.
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Victoria33 said:
it was persecution.
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Victoria33 said:
The UN has documented how they are discriminated against on a widescale basis.
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AFAIK, the Roma were not discriminated against because of their culture, at least not in Romania. they could get jobs like everyone else. But it depends on your education and skills. If you taught grammar and high school in Romania, you would find that the girls were OK and generally would not cause problems. The boys were difficult to deal with and often times would pick fights, laugh and talk in class, talk and joke while you are trying to teach and it would be difficult to try to convince them to be serious.
And often they would not even come to class. And after the 8th grade, you would not see them again. So how can you expect them to have office jobs when they do not have the education for it? They are given jobs in line with their education and skills background, just like everyone else. You should spend some time meeting with the parents of these pupils and talk with them about how their son is not doing his homework and see what the father says. I recommend you spend some time working with the Roma children and their parents and get some experience with their culture and way of life. If the UN or the EU commission in Belgium is so concerned about discrimination against Roma in hiring practices, why don’t they hire them as professional diplomats or attaches or some other office job in Belgium? Maybe the EU Commission should hire them as mediators between the Armenians and the Azerbaijanis even though they have only an 8th grade education ?
 
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If one wants to talk about who has personal experience with gypsies, apparently, the Nazis had lots of personal experience with them.

Among the groups the Nazi regime and its Axis partners singled out for persecution on so-called racial grounds were the Roma (Gypsies).

Drawing support from many non-Nazi Germans who harbored social prejudice towards Roma, the Nazis judged Roma to be “racially inferior.” The fate of Roma in some ways paralleled that of the Jews. Under the Nazi regime, German authorities subjected Roma to arbitrary internment, forced labor, and mass murder. German authorities murdered tens of thousands of Roma in the German-occupied territories of the Soviet Union and Serbia and thousands more in the killing centers at Auschwitz-Birkenau, Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka. The SS and police incarcerated Roma in the Bergen-Belsen, Sachsenhausen, Buchenwald, Dachau, Mauthausen, and Ravensbrück concentration camps. Both in the so-called Greater German Reich and in the so-called Generalgouvernement, German civilian authorities managed several forced-labor camps in which they incarcerated Roma.
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They’ve even run into problems in France:



So, my point stands. It’s a lot more than talking about someone’s car missing.


Rather than question if people have “first hand experience”, I think we should question whether one is aware of this widespread phenomenon, is up on the news.
 
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In fact, there are successful attempts to civilize Roma community in EU, with huge statistics of all types of crime and delinquency, people are gradually changing.
I believe that this is a gradual miracle, and again, thanks to the high culture and tolerance, of Western Europeans.
I remember an article, many years ago by a Benelux journalist of Romanian descent who was horrified herself by the idea of a visa-free regime for Romania.
She was horrified by the future crime situation in European cities.
But gradually over the years, with efforts, the Roma people are civilizing and slowly trying to integrate into the civilized European community.
I think that EU is to a some extent a university and a factory for the improvement , humanizing people from a primitive way of life to a modern one.
Even my mother remembers when she was coming to Romania, those tents, barefoot children and a total poverty.
Today everything has changed.
Romania is now some kind of retro-Italy.
Many Roma people of the villages are rich, and the Roma are incomparably more civilized and cultured.
Thanks to the EU phenomenon.
 
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The Roma have many talented representatives in many areas, especially in music.
The problem is in the environment and in upbringing and not in genetics, and Western Europeans and the EU gradually prove this.
Since we are talking about minorities, it is appropriate to recall that both the Jewish Holocaust and the Armenian genocide.
The only difference is that both Hitler and Turkish Freemasonry believed that destruction of these national minorities could save their plans.
If the gypsies, and other nations were considered sub-human, the Armenians and Jews for the enemies were considered the “para-human”.
Armenians really posed a threat to Turkey, in the political future.
It is known that in Turkey, the Armenians were both an intellectual people and the rich, after the pogroms , there were robberies and enrichments of some Turkish military.
But the organizers of genocide were actually destroying the people who constituted an existential political danger for them.
And what is interesting that even losing territories throughout history, the Armenians did not disappear from the face of the earth, they even managed to save the state of Armenia.
(they did not loose the state itself)
The Armenians in the diaspora are stories of success and prosperity.
Interestingly, the people are little religious and generally not churchly, because if they were religious the churches would be overcrowded.
But for the most part beautiful families, rich in children, and this means that religion is, as it were, rooted in nationality itself.
But if we could collect the total contribution of the diaspora in different countries of the world , it seems to me that although sometimes it is difficult to understand the Will of God, but sometimes emigration is God’s Will, by dissolving in the nations to transform life for the better.
 
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In Ukraine I think the story says a child was killed and they were blaming the Roma. Okay, people really get upset over things like this. I don’t know if it is apt to always say these things are bigotry, it’s just the way things are…

I know of a Syrian woman still in the Middle East and she saw all this BLM strife in America. Thankfully she did not use racial slurs about what she saw happening but I don’t think her reaction was very kind and one could say it was racist, though, I hesitate to say things like that.
 
PanArmenian news.

This:


Sappers are Mine-Sweepers, this is pretty bad:


Karabakh fighters and those seem to be Armenians, see this is real bad, the “war” seems to be about 20 days old:


I think they are updating these figures, report from that site says a bunch more got killed.

This next story could have its own thread, it’s almost unbelievable, this happened in LA by the way, local affiliate?? I think.:


Story about an Azeri in Scotland:


So, a lot of bad news… I don’t know how intense the fighting is now but it appears to continue.
 
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Someone else posted an article from the VOA. I was quoting from the VOA article and reporting on some of what I had experienced personally.
 
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I heard about this story with Roma community in Lviv.
I know that several suspects were arrested immediately.
I lived in Lviv for a 4 years, also visited Roma village in the neighboring Transcarpathia, stayed in Roma hotel once, and ate broth from a stolen chicken (it was written in the menu)
Many years ago, my uncle was a pastor of the Pentecostal community, once he brought a Gypsy family from the Gypsy Pentecostal community to Bucovina, for Missionary trip.
The gypsy preacher told how God touched his heart with repentance, and after the conversion he gave everything back from whom he had stolen in the past.
A very interesting family.
Large family, the income of the father of the family was temporary, they lived very poorly, but , like that without much worry about tomorrow.
Yes, but in general in Eastern European countries, the integration of Roma is rather slow, and the level of tolerance is low.
During communism, I think it was even worse. For suspicion of serious atrocities or theft, the police could beat the Roma suspect to death.
Many gypsies have changed their way of life.
They trade, sell.
while others have not changed.
Grandfather stole horses, and grandson is stealing cars now.
 
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The news from the battlefield that you shared shows that losses are coming.
Yea but if the Armenians hit residential buildings, and even in Ganja city,which is on the territory of Azerbaijan then perhaps the war party is gaining the upper hand there.
Pashynian could not give such orders.
Perhaps individual commanders or the military are getting furious , and may be act at their own discretion.

Nothing is heard about any compromises on both sides.🙁
 
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Athanasiy said:
Nothing is heard about any compromises on both sides
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I don’t see any other good solution except a land swap that I already mentioned. What else is there? If neither side wants it, perhaps it could be imposed.
Athanasiy said:
Grandfather stole horses, and grandson is stealing cars now.
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There are people who do not want to hear about this and might say that you are broadcasting stereotypes.
 
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There were 4 OSCE resolutions on the immediate liberation of the occupied territories, and if you watch the reports of Azerbaijani journalists about the consequences of shells hitting peaceful neighborhoods, i think the most important is to avoid reasons for massacres and reprisals on peaceful Armenian citizens already on the conquered by Azeris territories.
Compromises are definitely needed.
 
I understand (correct me if I’m wrong) that the Great United Armenia is a kind of Armenian Zionism.
Something like the Kingdom from the Nile to Ephrates.
But this is a suicidal, morally destructive theory.
A dangerous theory that can lead to incomparably large losses of the population of Armenia.
The theorists who suggest this theory are actually leading the people to destruction.
If ideologues believe in the brotherhood of Russia in this great war, then this is doubly destructive.
 
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A war that ends in compromise is a war that hasn’t really ended. Let them duke it out and there be a real victor.
 
Unless, it becomes a quagmire with bigger powers coming in, probably why they are trying to put a lid on it now, before it goes further.
 
Diaspora ideologists and educators are generally unique.
They kindle an ideological spark, fanning a big flame from it, and often when they sense danger, they run back to a safe place.
Neither these confessors, nor these ideologues go under the bullets, they are usually in exile.
They are long term investors in eternity, in order to go down in history as a saints and heroes both on earth and in heaven.
They do not pay with their lives, they are often paid from different funds, but the people pay with their lives.
After all, no one asked the people at the beginning of the twentieth century, were there mechanisms, real chances for building their own state?
do the people want to secede? To fight a war?
Or maybe it was just a plan and project of special intelligence services for the fall of the empire?
And it was just necessary to enrage the people for an uprising?
I watch demonstrations of Armenians in such comfortable cities for living like San Francisco, Paris…
Of course, on weekdays and business can do with the Turks, and make deals, and do joint projects, and it’s no secret that the diaspora is quite successful.
But to call on to conquer Constantinople, or Baku at demonstrations, to quote formidable poetry.
They seem to believe that the French or the Americans should fight the Turks for them?
Those who live in the long-suffering Armenian lands may subconsciously understand that sooner or later they ll have to live in the neighborhood, and would like to consider the country’s economy in the future, , but how if around only deadly enemies?
And in the end it turns out that after the war, the devastation is much worse and there is another … tenth wave of emigration from there.
And the ideologists and enlighteners are still in the same emigration, provide themselves, prestige, a name and will go down in history as a new generation of the nation’s patriarchs.
I have not studied the topic of genocide, I bought a "British Documents of Ottoman Armenians " in Istanbul, in a second hand bookstore, I have not finished reading it yet.
But from what you read it is clear that the Kurdish tribes terrorized the Armenians, the Turks covered it all up, and it was not a solitary cases, it was the real persecution for years , on religious grounds, just before the mass massacre.
I attended the service last Sunday in the Armenian Church, also worrying about the long-suffering people, but I need the time to study these historical issues.
Indeed, Artsakh needs prayer support.
 
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