(Capitol of Armenia) Yerevan Claims Turkish Jet Downed Armenia Plane As Fighting With Azerbaijani Forces Intensify

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I wouldn’t get too accusatory towards the Kurds in the present day.

Yes, apparently history tells us, the Kurds aided the Genocide against the Armenians in Turkey in 1915 I believe the year is, the Kurds have apologized for that, no casting of doubts that it occurred.

Kurdish Leader Apologizes for Role in Genocide​

Rudaw.net is Kurdish news, so they would not be fibbing over this:

Role of Kurds in the Genocide of Armenians​

…

Ugur Umit Ungor, assistant professor at Utrecht University in the Netherlands and an expert on the Armenian genocide, told Rudaw that some Kurdish tribes helped the Ottoman government in killing Armenians. He said that others, for example Kurds in Dersim and Mardin, resisted and helped the Armenians by giving them shelter, a hiding place or help in getting to Russian-held land.
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So, at least, let’s try to understand what is probably what really occurred.


Also, let’s not forget, this violence was also aimed at other Christians, Greeks, Chaldeans, Assyrians apparently.

Maps of “Greater Kurdistan” indicate where the Kurds live does indeed reach into Armenia itself. Not only that, there is speculation, the Kurds are aiding the Armenian side in this current conflict. Some of these accusations sound like propaganda but the premise may well be plausible.
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Adding on, there are many of these kinds of maps on the net, this is but one above. It’s not chiseled in stone.
 
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I heard about Kurds fighting on the side of Armenia.
I wonder if there are any Armenian Kurds.
A very warlike people.
But Turkish Kurds pay very dearly and bitterly for trying to build their own state.
The stories there are no less tragic, I mean those who dared to dream of their own Kurdish state.
When I traveled along Turkey(Turkey by the way impressed me more than the post-Soviet Caucasus)
In Ankara, and I heard also closer to Syrian border, the atmosphere was quite vigilant.
Document checks were made several times, on almoust every bus stop.
The policemen were checking armed with machine guns.
I think it is because of the protest spirit of the Kurds, many of whom did not stop dreaming to build their state.
Historically, it seems that many Kurds have been the next in the line of persecution, after Armenians.

By the way, Western observers know little that many influential Russian figures are of Armenian origin.
I see that according to wikipedia, the father of the Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov is Armenin.
The most famous media figure (one of the most powerful mouthpieces of the Russkiy Mir) - Margarita Simonyan is in general for the fact that Armenia merged with Russia.
The largest Marxist intellectual of Russia in the post-Soviet space- Sergey Kurgiyan believes the same.
That is, these are the Armenians who have become Russian imperials even more than the Russians themselves.
It looks like even the billionaire Ruben Vardanyan, has no levers and can not stop this war. Ruben Vardanyan is fluential person who sponsors many costly educational projects, and who even created The Aurora Prize (the awards of 1 million dollars for those " who risk their lives for the sake of others".)
But in this conflict, he can only make verbal TV appeals for peace.
Perhaps Western Armenian diplomacy will be more successful in helping to end
this war and the two-sides way out will be found.
 
The military experts discussing whether the Azeri will conquer the whole of Karabakh the same as they discuss the weather forecast.
They say, the Armenians
were able to take it in the 90s, so why not.
Others object that there is no need to conquer all Karabakh for victory.
Azeri victory is already secured.
There experts reporting in detail about the successes of a highly technological and disciplined Azeri army, which is more powerful than the Armenian army who fights according to the methods of the old Soviet military school , but I think that this is part of the psychological war, to morally suppress the spirit of the opponent.
It seems to me that media analytics, in spite of the almost football interes of classical military experts , it’s all pretty cruel and inhuman.
It’s one thing in power sports, an example in modern gladiatorial fights, that many Christians already agree, but when they report about hundreds of those killed, and the audience is chewing popcorn, and gives many likes on watched videos, it looks like something is wrong with this world.
Media resources in the modern world are weapons.
But the state media machine does not allow dissent.
Armenians are called for mobilization, and they are warned that this is an existential fight, that after Artsakh there will be Yerevan and the loss of all lands.
Can you imagine in what grip the society is?
Urgent compromises are needed, for the civilian population is, figuratively speaking, held hostage, and the question is whether it is worth substituting so many lives of young mobilized soldiers , if at this stage you still have to discuss a new political way out.
 
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This is conflict that I do not understand. I can not apply American values or politics to this, because it is completely different culture and government.

That said. Can someone explain this in a 3rd grade level to me?
 
All I need to know is brothers in Christ are at war with Muslims so I back my brothers.
 
Unfortunately, news reports seem to indicate the war is pretty much continuing.

https://news.yahoo.com/fighting-continues-between-armenia-azerbaijan-173348103.html

Fighting continues between Armenia and Azerbaijan despite cease-fire​

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An interesting story here:

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/middleeas...-amid-armenia-azerbaijan-conflict/ar-BB1agYbO

Disinformation spreads amid Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict​

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I have followed it “some” on twitter, not a whole lot.

This is like all of those conflicts in that general area, lots of propoganda, not always easy to get the truths.
 
The Armenians appeal to ancient history, but in the legal sense of modern history they annexed Karabakh, therefore, politically, Azerbaijan has more levers.
 
Georgia is a Christian, neighboring Caucasian country with Armenia.
Why did the Georgians not allow the transportation of weapons for Armenians across their border?
Perhaps this is a partial answer.


Generally the Georgians are neutral, but by lossing Abkhazia and South Ossetia, they are the same as Ukraine,- support the idea of the territorial integrity of the state, and thats why they are on the side of Azerbaijan.
For many people it is rather difficult to judge about the religious significance.
The situation here is ambiguous and more complicated than some obvious Christian-Islamic conflict.
It is known that Iran has an idea of “choseness”, just like Israel.
And Iran opposes the Ottoman extention.
Muslims of the Russian Federation are not unambiguous, but they are more in solidarity with Armenia, for Armenia , is the stronghold of Russian influence.
It’s not for nothing that Putin has now changed power in Dagestan. A proven man-Sergey Melikov has come to power who is considered as very able to prevent any rebel elements.
For nationally liberation movements (which are very severely suppressed in the Russian Federation), the Ottoman extension and influence is more profitable.

The countries that have lost their territories , through the intervention of Russia(state religion does not matter) are all on the side of Azerbaijan.

The Armenians claim that with the fall of Artsah , there will be later the fall of Russian Federation and the strongholds of Christianity will gradually collapse.
That is, the Armenians defending Artsakh are viewed by them as crusaders of the stronghold of the Christian world, although their opponents, on the contrary, believe in the winds of change, and a possible new political reality in many post-soviet regions, and not only in post-soviet.
Therefore, it is very difficult to talk just about some Christian-Islamic conflict.
 
Բաղրամյանի անվան գումարտակ
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From the above article, Armenia has it’s own type of writing.

Iran is actually, it seems on Armenia’s side.

Even though, this below is from “al Jazeera”, I thought this was a good report on what is happening. And by the way, if one thinks “al Jazeera” out of Qatar is biased, the Arab league condemned any Turkish involvement in this war. Qatar though, is a Turkish ally, take with a grain of salt, aJ is pretty good imho.


This is not a good situation for Armenia and that website I posted before, Pan Armenian News does not have good news for the most part.


See this above? It sounds like the Armenian side is mostly losing this war and I hate to say that.

In my opinion, al Jazeera are decent, the main ones they don’t like are US!! And skip their editorials too but for news reporting, they aren’t bad.
 
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Yes, the Prime Minister of Armenia is in a very difficult situation.
I think Armenians need to skillfully retreat and save the lives of thousands of soldiers.
But the war party may perceive this as a betrayal and take power in the most brutal way.
There is a need for assistance of serious Western diplomacy, and the cessation of hostilities, although very possible that the leaders of the Armenian militias will choose a different path.
It seems to me that extreme nationalists can often lead their people unconsciously into a great abyss.
In fact, the Armenians were left alone.
The theory of salvation of the Christian civilization, the stronghold of which is Artsakh, does not allow making a compromise and retreating.
Retreat would save the lives of many young soldiers in the future, but how can one say about retreat if there is a fanatical belief in the eschatological importance of Artsakh not only for Armenia but for the entire Christian world.
The video shows very young Armenian conscripts, thousands are killed.
On the graves 2000,2003 …dates of birth.
There seems to be virtually no economy in Artsakh anymore.
Shopkeepers in the past weeks have been putting up goods for free on the street. More than half of the population became refugees.
There are also Orthodox Christians in Russia who believe that retaining Artsakh is the first step towards the future liberation of Constantinople.
Now those who firmly believed in these theories are calling Russia to action, but if Russian army will get involved in the conflict it means the beginning of a direct confrontation with Turkey.
While Russia is inactive, the Turks have confirmed that if their help is needed, they will come to the aid of the Azeris.

Will this meeting give any result?


I believe that the one who can stop the war and this massacre is a real hero.
 

US Brokered Peace agreement, I hope it can work out… in fact, Trump commented on Armenia this weekend, I just saw a blurb.

Well, I’m posting this, not sure I agree with its tone:


But Trump did say the Armenians are having a “hard-go” of it I believe.

Now, the more fascinating stuff, the wife of the Armenian PM IN OTHER WORDS, the FIRST LADY, is going to the front lines with 13 women in a defense role. Here name is Anna Hakobyan.


I hope they can work things out.

https://annahakobyan.am/en/anna/

I read mixed sentiments on her. She seems to be a colorful figure.
 
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A bit more:, this news is from “Artsakh”, now if I understand this correctly, that is actually this “Nagorno-Karabakh”:

I make this request to all first ladies. Anna Hakobyan​

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Wednesday, 21 October, 2020, 13:35
The wife of the Prime Minister of Armenia, Anna Hakobyan, wrote on her Facebook page. ''I have sent this letter to my dear friend and First Lady of Brasil Michelle Bolsonaro. I understand my request is not an easy one to implement. On the contrary, enormous willpower, courage, and determination to stand on the side of justice is needed for this.
While the friendly nation and government of Brasil analyze the situation, I now adress to all First Ladies, in particular those that I have known in person;

See more at:


So, this was all kind of fascinating. Lots more on this but I’ll leave it at that.
I’m editing and adding on this article by a Brit Journalist, Dan Mason. He writes from a certain perspective but it’s pretty good.


All of these wars and their brutality are disturbing. Let’s hope it’s coming to a close and a tragedy that there has been a loss of life besides other destruction.

There’s also a news website called “Caucasian Knot” (of all things) but I believe it is Western friendly if not Western funded:

 
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According to the news the Azeri army is stepping up the operation and it looks like measures are being taken to complete it ahead of time.
We are not Armenians, so we will never understand them.
Moreover, I heard that the Armenians of Artsakh are very different in their ardent patriotism from those of Yerevan and Diaspora.

I think that the Russian government irresponsibly, not pragmatically, did not overlook the Armenians, just like in 1915.
But Erdogan will muster up the courage and perhaps in the future will help Ukraine to reclaim Crimea.
Erdogan’s position on Crimea is clear and unequivocal.

Looks like in Armenia the war party is already trying to oust Pashinyan and the military leadership of Armenia.

Meanwhile, along the Russian borders of the Caucasus, i see the mysterious photographers of nature appear, which photograph landscapes…
In fact, it seems to me that this vigilant vigilance of the Russian special services, fearing the penetration of ISIS militants into the Caucasus.

I have already mentioned that many Armenians helped build the foundation of Russian statehood.
Not only the USSR, but also the Russian Empire both in pre-revolutionary times and in modern times.
Ruben Vardanyan, for example, is a social entrepreneur. Even “initiates” unprofitable projects, long-term projects, including in Armenia not only in Russia.
There are famous scientists, doctors, and military men of Armenian origin.
But now, we are witnesses of a long-term military investment project of the Azerbaijani army.
They waited a long time and finally began to implement their plans.
Now it seems that things have gone so far that if no compromises are made, then the number of victims can turn into genocide level.
In general, extreme nationalists in all countries often call for recapturing the lands of past centuries.
They are gaining political strength, they zombify through the media and make the people hostage to their theories, and then this is how tragedies with many dead are now turning out.
The Armenians, especially the Armenians of Artsakh, are not the people who will accept defeat. I think there will be partisanship.
 
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Ahval News (independent news, outside of Turkey though I think they claim to be mainly Turkish news) reported this yesterday:


Note, see box, it says shot down but then, it talks about this “radio jamming” or “electronic jamming” so, reading the article, I am not sure if they mean actually “shooting down at drone”, that’s a bit confusing. See article for oneself.

I did read too, on twitter, someone say the “Armenian Democratic Party” (Nationalists??) are saying the Prime Minister should resign.
 
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Or that guy in Berlin who the Red Army teamed up with to start World War II???

International Law is International Law and those borders were drawn up during the time of the Soviet Union.
 
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Many Ukrainians were in the Red Army, one can check lists, top snipers, some Ukrainians. So your remark seems uncivil to discussion. Why single him out? In fact, every country, even if it be France, had collaborators.

Maybe if there hadn’t been a famine in the previous decade, you might not have had a country yearning for freedom. I think one sees that in Finland too, perhaps Croatia too in a battle against a Greater Serbia.
 
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Karabakh / Artsakh are the direct complicity of the Kremlin.
Believe me, many peoples of the former socialist camp have become convinced of what “Fraternal Russia” is.
I am not at all surprised by the Kremlin media talkers who want to leave the game clean and fluffy.
Yes, about 15% are Muslims in the Russian Federation.
Several million Azerbaijanis live there, as well (as the number of Armenians)
In general, the federation itself consists of many peoples and everything is not as calm there as the Russian media assures.
They can’t wait for America to break up,
, but wait a bit, it is not yet known what will happen to the federation in the future.
Artsakh also did not become over prosperous over the past thirty years.
The Northern Caucasus are poor regions with the highest birth rates and unemployment, that is, no one there is in a hurry to transform and to build.
I mean that there are enough regional problems of their own.
The Kremlin understands that with risky actions the federation can be shaken, so it will not seem a little.
And in the very region of Azerbaijan, the Armenian conflict, if it is overridden, then one and the other side have strategic objects in case if blown up which can lead to unheard-of disasters.
But the Kremlin did not understand that sooner or later they would have to answer for the consequences?
I don’t know, it seems to me that ethnic conflicts in the late Soviet and post-Soviet space were very beneficial.
Many of them were created artificially and carefully planned, the Kremlin elites have laundered money in those ethnic wars.
And now, in modern times, various speculators in arms also have income from this, no matter how terrible it sounds.
As for news sites, I think it’s worth looking at the site’s domain for plausibility.
Because it’s no secret that in addition to journalism, entire virtual armies are fighting in cyber space.
 
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