(Capitol of Armenia) Yerevan Claims Turkish Jet Downed Armenia Plane As Fighting With Azerbaijani Forces Intensify

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I think that not only there are clashes between the two diasporas.
In Israel, an Armenian woman filmed something similar on her phone, and Azeri Israeli citizen used the same video to call on Armenians to be brought to justice.
For some reason, he assured that those Armenians moved to Israel with fake documents.
Although it is known that there are also Armenian Jews.
Abramyan, for example, is the Armenian version of the Russian version - Abramov.
The surname in the west seems to me more often sounds like Abrahamyan.
But even if we assume that these people are half Armenians and half Azerbaijani, the fact remains that the enmity of Armenians with Azerbaijanis is an old, age-old enmity
 
Yes, that list of names is alarming.

Some reporting is saying Azerbaijan forces are now, near Shusha, the capitol of Nagorno-Karabakh, within 5 miles…

BBC says both sides have suffered heavy losses:


"The people of both countries have suffered badly, with the people of Armenia, who are facing offensive military operations, now taking the brunt of the casualties. Our prayers are with the many Armenians and Azerbaijanis who have been killed or wounded.
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Paradoxically, authoritarian regimes for building an army in a country can be beneficial.
There are many things for the democrats to criticize both Erdogan and Aliyev, but in the formation of the army in recent decades there is a lot to learn.
Azerbaijan is a former Soviet military school, but for sure military textbooks are no longer Soviet.
The Armenians are unambiguously extremely heroic warriors, and the battles are going on in the most difficult conditions , in general, and attack is more difficult than defense.
But here either the forcing will end before the cold weather, or in the spring the second phase of the attempt to capture Karabakh may overflow.
Because now it will start to snow and in such conditions, military operations will be even harder.
If winter to temporarily stop the assault on Karabakh/Artsah, then diplomacy has a chance to try to resolve the conflict by agreeing, by some compromise.
 
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Yes, Karabakh / Artsakh is turning the whole world upside down.

But once again I am convinced of the importance of the army for the state.
But the army takes decades to build.

Will civilization lose to power? 🤔
But after all, for example, Turkish Cypriots wanted to reunite with the Greeks more than once, but the reason was still the privileges of EU membership.
The same Turkish conflict with France has been going on in fact since 2007, when France blocked the Turkish EU membership attempts.
And now we are witnessing that Turkey is building its own kind of Union🤔
 
This is interesting, I saw something on twitter saying we gave a lot more foreign aid to Azerbaijan than to Armenia. But I’m really not seeing confirmation of this, this is why it’s good to try to get hard facts. I am going to research this more later but I found this website that talks about what we give in foreign aid.

https://www.foreignassistance.gov/explore

This is an interactive map, one can explore it for oneself.

Here is an interesting article. It is about giving foreign (security?) aid to Azerbaijan:


Excerpted:

Democrats urge halt to security aid to Azerbaijan in Armenia conflict​

…

In a letter to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo last week, Senate Foreign Relations Committee ranking member Sen. Bob Menendez, D-N.J., Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and 10 other Senate Democrats called for security assistance to Azerbaijan to be suspended as they echoed international calls for an immediate ceasefire and return to diplomacy.

“We have been very critical of U.S. security assistance to Azerbaijan given the country’s human rights record and aggression in the region,” the authors wrote. “Earlier this year, at Senator Menendez’s request, the Government Accountability Office agreed to conduct a review of security assistance to the country to ensure that it aligns with U.S. interests; this violence indicates that it does not.”

The lawmakers blame Azerbaijan for instigating the fighting and NATO ally Turkey for inflaming it. The letter called on U.S. President Donald Trump to convince Ankara to immediately disengage from the conflict amid charges Turkey is sending fighters from Syria to aid Baku. Turkey denies those charges, but it is publicly supporting Azerbaijan.
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All something to check in to. I would agree with the lawmakers.

Also check ‘Freedom House’, they rate countries freedoms (might be a bit liberal), Armenia has a decent freedom rating, Azerbaijan, not.
 
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There is opposition in Azerbaijan, but their criticism is a little tamed now in connection with the national upsurge.
After all, Azerbaijanis who fled from Karabakh as children will now return to their homes. These are historical events and the people feel national pride.
Of course, with such natural resources, the people could live richer.
There is oil there in Azerbaijan.
The population could live like in Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, but the conquest of Karabakh will raise the rating of Aliyev.
Erdogan may also win elections again after Aliyev’s successful military campaign in Karabakh.
But the Turks in Libya, Syria and Greece are now in a serious conflict.
Young people are being mobilized in Greece.
This generation of young Greek people read only in books about the wars with the Turks in the past centuries, and now they themselves come across a confrontation with Turkey’s invasion of their islands.
Erdogan is not afraid to play some pretty dangerous games.
Russians will not poke their heads into Karabakh, but imagine a picture if the Armenians provoke Azerbaijanis to poke their heads into their legal territory, then the Russian regular army will intervene.
Also, one should not forget about Kurdistan in chains within Turkey itself, which can also rise up, given the opportunity.
In the worst-case scenario or worst-drram of Erdogan , it can start such that utopian dreams of the capture of Constantinople can become a reality.
But Erdogan is acting impressively and confidently.
 
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Today’s article

Greek Deterrence of Turkey: Living to Fight Another Day


… The legal status of many Greek islands and islets has been openly questioned by Turkish officials. For example, Erdoğan’s coalition partner Devlet Bahceli (chairman of the Nationalist Movement Party) has disputed Greek sovereignty of Dodecanese islands, including Rhodes.

Second, the Turkish leadership has used ultra-nationalist rhetoric against Greece so unceasingly that it is now almost impossible to backtrack from it. For example, President Erdoğan recently stated, “In our civilization, conquest is not occupation or looting. It is establishing the dominance of the justice that Allah commanded in the [conquered] region.”

The likely failure of the talks could lead to more tensions and eventually conflict. The military balance is slightly in favor of Turkey. Both countries have large and well-equipped armies, but the Turks have gained significant combat experience in Libya and Syria. The two navies have similarly-sized ships, though Turkey is ahead of Greece in terms of modernization. The Turkish navy built the amphibious assault ship Anadolu, modelled after the Spanish ship Juan Carlos, to conduct long-distance combat operations in the region. Ankara has also designed and plans to build four Istanbul-class frigates with multi-role combat capabilities…
 
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Just some random stories to post to keep this thread in use:

Samaritan’s Purse Responds To Nagorno-Karabakh Conflict; Airlifting 11+ Tons Of Warm Winter Clothing To Aid Hurting Families In Armenia​

PR Newswire

BOONE, N.C., Nov. 5, 2020

BOONE, N.C., Nov. 5, 2020 /PRNewswire/ – As conflict rages in war-torn Armenia and Azerbaijan, Samaritan’s Purse is airlifting emergency relief to conflict-affected families who were forced to flee their homes. Since 1988, Armenia and Azerbaijan have battled over Nagorno-Karabakh with a recent upsurge in activity that began in late September. Escalating violence and bombings have forced tens of thousands of people to flee their homes. Now, these hurting families are in desperate need of basic supplies to prepare for the winter.
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UEFA suspends soccer official for anti-Armenia online abuse​

AP

NYON, Switzerland (AP) — An Azerbaijani soccer club official was suspended by UEFA on Wednesday while under investigation for posting offensive comments about Armenia on social media.

UEFA said Qarabag media officer Nurlan Ibrahimov faces potential charges of “racist and other discriminatory conduct” and “violating the basic rules of decent conduct.”

An interim ban will prevent Ibrahimov from working at Qarabag’s Europa League game on Thursday at Sivasspor.
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So, it’s a bit of a dirty war. Being observant.

No matter where one stands on politics, I’m glad Samaritan’s Purse is active. I’d like to see who else may be.

And this, Ethnic Armenian, looks like one wrote the story too:

by: Stefani Booroojian

Posted: Nov 4, 2020 / 07:37 PM PST / Updated: Nov 4, 2020 / 07:37 PM PST

FRESNO, California (KSEE) – The war has been raging for over a month: Armenia and Azerbaijan remain in a deadly battle over the territory of Nagorno Karabakh– with Turkey aiding Azerbaijan in the fight.

In Fresno, 102-year-old Knarig Clara Margossian is watching and worrying from her home.

“They’re going to kill us all. And America doesn’t help them. That’s very very bad,” Margossian says.
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Story continued at link.

For the record, this seems to be her Church mentioned in the story:


Their Church at prayer from their homepage:


I am going to add on, thinktanker (Hudson Institute or formerly with Hudson, he may have started his own thing) MIke Doran. Again, not saying I agree always with Mike but he’s American and he seems to know a lot.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1324410535065145345

Okay, whatever, he is now in Azerbaijan. Mike Doran worked for George W. Bush. From California originally. He is in some Hudson Institute videos. Hard to say he is some bad guy. A lot of this I just absorb. I don’t decide anything.
 
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Today’s Facebook post by priest Cyril Hovorun:
The post was in Russian but the Google translator without my help translated instantly and clearly.

What do you think about it?

" The Christian states that wanted to protect the Christian communities of the Middle East have often done them a disservice since at least the 19th century. And all because often their real motive was different ideologies, built on references to the Roman / Byzantine Empire.

This was the motive of the Russian-Turkish war of 1877-1878, because of which the reforms of Tanzimat were sharply curtailed and a prelude to the Armenian-Assyrian-Greek genocide under the Young Turks was provoked.

The Young Turks themselves first wanted to continue the reforms of Tanzimat, but then another state of that time - Italy - moved on the idea of restoring parts of the Roman Empire and started a war in Libya. At the same time, the young Orthodox states in the Balkans, recently freed from Turkish rule, decided to rebuild their medieval empires. This is how the Balkan Wars of 1912-1913 began. All this forced the Young Turks to engage in the destruction of their Christian population as potential collaborators.

Finally, already under the nationalists of Kemal, who condemned the genocides perpetrated by the Young Turks, the Greeks went mad on the basis of the Great idea of restoring their kingdom within the framework of Byzantium. And they paid for it with the Asia Minor catastrophe. However, not only they paid, but all the Christian communities of Turkey that remained after the genocides. After unsuccessful attempts to implement the Great Idea, these communities in Turkey are almost gone.

In total, between the curtailment of the Tanzimat reforms and Ataturk, about 4 million Christians were swept from the Ottoman territory. This is the price of Turkish brutality, but also of the ideological fixation of Christians on Byzantinism."
 
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For example - Margaret Macmillan, answering questions after one of her lectures, said interesting facts that Ataturk did not initiate and did not take part in the Armenian genocide, because he had no authorizations, and at that time was an officer on a completely different front.
And on the basis of the Armenian tragedy she replied that the Armenians at that time, unfortunately, did not have protectors that could prevent that tragedy.
Ataturk is one of the greatest historical reformers of society, of course, there are bitter sides to his rule , but it seems wrong to classify him as an accomplice of the genocide.


By the way, Erdogan is inspired by the political orientation not of Ataturk, but of his predecessor, Abdul Hamid.

 
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John Hopkins Professor Steve Hanke, respected Economist, posts quotes by Ataturk almost daily:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1322878555739594752

And quotes of other luminaries. He definitely holds Ataturk in esteem.

I thought that was interesting, I know some minimize his involvement in 1915, they say he was somewhere else or something. I make no claims myself. I know some sources say he was involved.

Anyway, that Hanke quotes him must be a positive because Hanke seems to know a lot. I see now, he is commenting quite a bit on Nigeria which of course, he probably should.
 
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Anything related to the strengthening of Turkey is unacceptable for the knowledgeable Kurds.
I mean the nationally aware Kurds who have been very severely persecuted in Turkey itself for a long time.
I know one Turkish dissident Kurd who speaks very negatively about Ataturk despite his glorification in Turkey, he also despises Turkish, as he calls it " chauvinism and fascism."

But still, it seems to me that in the case of Turkey,- secularism, European and democratic guidelines is better than Islamization. Therefore, Ataturk started with the correct orientation.

But after all, democratization is also a road to the recognition of Kurdistan, with all the ensuing consequences.
While we see that everything is going in a completely different way, the empire that wants to return time back clearly makes itself felt in front of us.
 
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I am curious if the fall of the Turkish lira have anything to do with the Armenian-Azerbaijani events?
 
Yea, considering the cost of missiles, aircrafts, and drones, war is an extremely expensive endeavor.
Even to keep the army itself quite expensive, for example, it takes decades to raise one general, and also warriors with experience of wars behind them are a valuable resource for the army, but despite the might of the army, economic sanctions and economic mismanagement can greatly undermine the country’s economy.
 
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