"Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing operations "

[Prodigal_Son1]

I live in a rural area too and the homeless children came from a city far away.

It seems strange that you can find no charitable outlet for your need to give - could it be lack of effort?

SamH, judge me how you want. You do not know me and seem to not to desire to try and know me, even though I believe I’ve expressed myself honestly and directly in this discussion. It’s not a personal contest of who does what. I give what I can, and help where I can. I also extend that to my ‘political’ decisions to share with those I do not know, yet know they exist. I find little to none of Christ’s teachings in cutting out social programs, or avoiding future programs that can help the needy. I consider this to be a Christian nation.

Now, there will be a lack of effort to respond to ‘spin’ posts with no value to this discussion which is universal healthcare. I believe our Pope calls for governments is real and gives great examples to follow.

 

[SamH]

SamH, judge me how you want. You do not know me and seem to not to desire to try and know me, even though I believe I’ve expressed myself honestly and directly in this discussion. It’s not a personal contest of who does what. I give what I can, and help where I can. I also extend that to my ‘political’ decisions to share with those I do not know, yet know they exist. I find little to none of Christ’s teachings in cutting out social programs, or avoiding future programs that can help the needy. .

I agree its not personal contest, but I’m surprised that one that is so adamant about our Christian duties can be so derelict in their own. I was hoping a man claiming to be so righteous in their words could inspire me with thier own acts to do more, but alas I am once again disappointed.

So you have no intention of burdening yourself with poor and those in need?

 

[iamrefreshed]

You love the sarcastic emoticon, or so it seems. Maybe it’s just being sarcastic in a discussion. I’m not sure only you know that.

What makes you assume that I would know the plans on whether or not the Vatican intends on selling anything in it’s possession? Oh, sorry another question.

Come on, we know definitely the Pope has called on governments on the issue of universal healthcare. Is he wrong for doing that? Is it not an example for Catholics to follow?

If this is how the discussion is to continue, I will not be responding to your posts. I am discussing realities and not ‘what ifs’. I think I’ve more than explained my view, even against the ‘spins’ and avoidance of direct questions I’ve asked.

Again you have answered a question with more questions.

I guess that means you have no answers.

Feel free to continue not responding to my posts as you have yet to do so except to continue avoiding answering any direct questions.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I agree its not personal contest, but I’m surprised that one that is so adamant about our Christian duties can be so derelict in their own. I was hoping a man claiming to be so righteous in their words could inspire me with thier own acts to do more, but alas I am once again disappointed.

So you have no intention of burdening yourself with poor and those in need?

I am a sinner, but do not consider myself totally derelict in my Christian duties, nor would I judge anyone as such. It seems hypocritical to say the least. Just as we all have our callings in life, and to help according to our callings, I do what I can. I worked much of my life in sales. 3 years ago I made a career change to healthcare, so that compassion can be provided as well as professional care. I work on an ambulance and see many people everyday at work that are in need, of much more than healthcare. I also see people who are refused treatments based on their ability to pay.

Before you decide to speculate on the money I receive through my career change, I make about 25% of what I made in sales. EMTs on an ambulance make $9.50 an hour in this rural area. I am about to attend Paramedic school so I can provide more of a service, and I’m in my mid fifties. I am willing to bet that I am the oldest student in my upcoming course.

This career change was brought on through a spiritual renewal in my life.

Since you’ve decided to turn the discussion to me personally, I am not going to respond to your posts, unless I see an honest return to the discussion at hand.

God bless.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Again you have answered a question with more questions.

I guess that means you have no answers.

Feel free to continue not responding to my posts as you have yet to do so except to continue avoiding answering any direct questions.

I said I have no knowledge of the Vatican’s plans to sell, or not, the items in their possession. If you weren’t in such a hurry to directly make this personal, you might have noticed it was an answer. You even have gone so far as to continue to avoid answering any questions I asked.

I think it’s time to call it quits on this discussion, if a one sided questioning can be considered a discussion.

God Bless.

 

[Warrior1979]

What is your solution? Do we just give up and offer no one healthcare unless they can afford it?

I could spend months writing a response. Healthcare is incredibly expensive in this country for two main reasons:

• It is focused on treating symptoms, not effecting cures; and
• Incredible government inefficiency.

Until these points are addressed, the problem simply will not be solved.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I could spend months writing a response. Healthcare is incredibly expensive in this country for two main reasons:

• It is focused on treating symptoms, not effecting cures; and
• Incredible government inefficiency.

Until these points are addressed, the problem simply will not be solved.

I’m not sure I understand the first one. Cures are started by treating symptoms.

I’ve heard ‘government inefficiencies’ a lot on this discussion, specifically on these forums, but no one had elaborated on those inefficiencies. I realize that with any social programs, even the ones through our Church, some people will take advantage. Can you list some known inefficiencies that are directly attributed to the government?

 

[Warrior1979]

I’m not sure I understand the first one. Cures are started by treating symptoms.

No they are not. Treating symptoms continues the problem; treating the cause ends the problem. Furthermore, there is far more money to be made in treating symptoms, so from a strictly business viewpoint, it makes more sense to continue the problem.

I could give some rather interesting examples of overnight cures, never to return, for things that doctors consider serious problems. But instead, I’ll keep it real simple.

Let’s say someone has Type II diabetes. In many cases, this is completely curable. Standard treatment is insulin, maybe some other medications, and some diet modifications. In most cases, the problems is not solved, and the person goes on to have additional, serious complications.

OTOH, there are some “alternative doctors” that completely change the diet of those with diabetes: natural foods, no simple carbs, and reduce the fat in the diet (because it can block insulin receptor sites). These doctors have to monitor their patients in the early stages because of the immediate change in insulin metabolism that occurs. A large number of these patients never have to take insulin again, and never have to deal with the complications of diabetes and associated diseases.

Treating the symptoms of diabetes is incredibly expensive. Effecting the cure is not only inexpensive, but it increases the general well being of the person and avoids other health problem down the road.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

No they are not. Treating symptoms continues the problem; treating the cause ends the problem. Furthermore, there is far more money to be made in treating symptoms, so from a strictly business viewpoint, it makes more sense to continue the problem.

I could give some rather interesting examples of overnight cures, never to return, for things that doctors consider serious problems. But instead, I’ll keep it real simple.

Let’s say someone has Type II diabetes. In many cases, this is completely curable. Standard treatment is insulin, maybe some other medications, and some diet modifications. In most cases, the problems is not solved, and the person goes on to have additional, serious complications.

OTOH, there are some “alternative doctors” that completely change the diet of those with diabetes: natural foods, no simple carbs, and reduce the fat in the diet (because it can block insulin receptor sites). These doctors have to monitor their patients in the early stages because of the immediate change in insulin metabolism that occurs. A large number of these patients never have to take insulin again, and never have to deal with the complications of diabetes and associated diseases.

Treating the symptoms of diabetes is incredibly expensive. Effecting the cure is not only inexpensive, but it increases the general well being of the person and avoids other health problem down the road.

While the treatments you describe can prevent the full onset of diabetes, in some cases, it is not specifically a cure for everyone with diabetes.

Are you going to elaborate on some of the ‘government inefficiencies’ you mentioned? I am very interested in seeing details as opposed to a generalized opposition.

 

[iamrefreshed]

I said I have no knowledge of the Vatican’s plans to sell, or not, the items in their possession. If you weren’t in such a hurry to directly make this personal, you might have noticed it was an answer. You even have gone so far as to continue to avoid answering any questions I asked.

I think it’s time to call it quits on this discussion, if a one sided questioning can be considered a discussion.

God Bless.

I see. When your argument is found extremely lacking you turn on posters and say they are ‘getting personal’.

Just for you…

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I see. When your argument is found extremely lacking you turn on posters and say they are ‘getting personal’.

Just for you…

I recognize, spins, condescension, sarcasm, and outright false accusations. I also recognize the avoidance of answering questions. It seems to be used quite a bit from those who oppose the social programs offered through our government. Yet, I’m the one who has no points in a discussion? one for you too…

 

[Warrior1979]

While the treatments you describe can prevent the full onset of diabetes, in some cases, it is not specifically a cure for everyone with diabetes.

Sure it’s not a cure in every single circumstances due to the complexity of the human body, and the particular environment one lives in. But don’t take my word for it; read the success of doctor’s and their patients that do lockdown programs. The success is stunning. If even a ridiculously conservative 50% were cured, the savings is truly incredibly.

Many modern diseases are diet related, and the only way to cure them is with diet…not drugs. If one wants to know a major reason why socialized medicine is cheaper in other countries, simply look at the people; they eat differently and, don’t have the obesity levels we do.

Are you going to elaborate on some of the ‘government inefficiencies’ you mentioned? I am very interested in seeing details as opposed to a generalized opposition.

This is simply common knowledge to anyone that has dealt with the government in a business sense in any way shape or form.

• Unnecessary regulation.
• The fact that an additional middleman is involved, using a labor force with all sorts of benefits for life
• No sense of cost control that exists in the private sector

The details of each are legion and readily available on the internet.

 

[iamrefreshed]

I am a sinner, but do not consider myself totally derelict in my Christian duties, nor would I judge anyone as such. It seems hypocritical to say the least. Just as we all have our callings in life, and to help according to our callings, I do what I can. I worked much of my life in sales. 3 years ago I made a career change to healthcare, so that compassion can be provided as well as professional care. I work on an ambulance and see many people everyday at work that are in need, of much more than healthcare. I also see people who are refused treatments based on their ability to pay.

Before you decide to speculate on the money I receive through my career change, I make about 25% of what I made in sales. EMTs on an ambulance make $9.50 an hour in this rural area. I am about to attend Paramedic school so I can provide more of a service, and I’m in my mid fifties. I am willing to bet that I am the oldest student in my upcoming course.

This career change was brought on through a spiritual renewal in my life.

Since you’ve decided to turn the discussion to me personally, I am not going to respond to your posts, unless I see an honest return to the discussion at hand.

God bless.

So the bottom line is you won’t be paying for the taxes to supply this ‘charity’.

You want others to do your charity for you.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

This is simply common knowledge to anyone that has dealt with the government in a business sense in any way shape or form.

• Unnecessary regulation.
• The fact that an additional middleman is involved, using a labor force with all sorts of benefits for life
• No sense of cost control that exists in the private sector

The details of each are legion and readily available on the internet.

I’ve seen people say too much fraud, now you say ‘unnecessary regulation’. The reasons seem to contradict each other.

Providing a means to those without is not necessarily a middleman. The healthcare industry itself would not provide services on their own.

A lot of the ‘cost control’ comes directly from the healthcare industry. Insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc., all have money, lawyers, and most of all, lobbyists. All we have to do is compare US costs against other countries and it’s easy to see that greed controls our healthcare costs. That is the private sector.

Working in the healthcare industry, I hear the reasoning of those that can’t pay contribute to the high costs, in order to recover losses.

The British, French, and other countries have a NHS. They pay for it, whether it’s realized or not. Ask them what their tax rates are. The tax rates wouldn’t bother me, if everyone had access to the quality of life through healthcare. But, I’ve stated I believe it to be an effective way to share. Maybe my views come directly from personal experiences with the healthcare system and the unbearable costs. Life hasn’t been easy, but then I feel it’s made me more compassionate towards my fellow man.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So the bottom line is you won’t be paying for the taxes to supply this ‘charity’.

You want others to do your charity for you.

More spins, yet you implied there were no personal attacks? I am willing to pay extra taxes, upon the personal giving I do, through my job and with money donated. I am glad it’s not you that I have to justify myself with. There is only one judge, and He will judge us all.

I’m not responding to you anymore. There is no honest discussion that I’ve seen. You avoid questions, answer questions with questions and continue to attempt to push buttons with what amounts to false accusations. I sincerely fail to see the charity in that.

 

[iamrefreshed]

More spins, yet you implied there were no personal attacks? I am willing to pay extra taxes, upon the personal giving I do, through my job and with money donated. I am glad it’s not you that I have to justify myself with. There is only one judge, and He will judge us all.

I’m not responding to you anymore. There is no honest discussion that I’ve seen. You avoid questions, answer questions with questions and continue to attempt to push buttons with what amounts to false accusations. I sincerely fail to see the charity in that.

Well since you have been the one who answers questions with more questions I find your post quite amusing.

Hopefully, I can have a good year this year and make your charitable contributions for you.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Well since you have been the one who answers questions with more questions I find your post quite amusing.

Hopefully, I can have a good year this year and make your charitable contributions for you.

I have not asked anyone to make contributions on my behalf and find it most uncharitable that you find amusement in continuing the false implication of such. I will assume that is your intent.

God bless, you’re in my prayers.

 

[iamrefreshed]

I have not asked anyone to make contributions on my behalf and find it most uncharitable that you find amusement in continuing the false implication of such. I will assume that is your intent.

God bless, you’re in my prayers.

I’m really in your prayers? Well, thanks.

You asked me to pay taxes so you can help others. How is that charity on your part?

 

[St_Francis]

While the treatments you describe can prevent the full onset of diabetes, in some cases, it is not specifically a cure for everyone with diabetes.

Are you going to elaborate on some of the ‘government inefficiencies’ you mentioned? I am very interested in seeing details as opposed to a generalized opposition.

Government inefficiency in health care? My doctor explained about a situation… there was a doctor in a rural area who was over 65. Over the years he had built up a practice in that area, bought equipment, etc., so he had x-ray machines, testing machines and the like.

Well, he retired. He had it arranged for another doctor to come and take over his practice, but that fell through, but he had to retire anyeay.

Then the state set up a totally new clinic with all new equipment, I think because the old practice had closed and that meant the government would not accept the equipment; I’m not sure about that.

The price of a doctor’s visit almost tripled because of the need to pay for an entirely new facility; this meant that a lot of the people who had been able to afford pay as they went with the old doctor now had a really hard time paying. The state put in a plan which allpwed low-income people not the have to pay so much.

Well, this doctor who told me about this was asked if he would be the doctor for this medical center, and he turned it down because they did not have a business plan: after the initial grant which the state paid, there was no plan for how this center would pay for itself despite the fact that the expenses of the place would be very high (heating alone in the 2-storey high waiting room would be very high!), so the doctor I knew said no, because it would be very hard for one doctor to work enough to cover the costs but there wasn’t enough business for two.

So somewhere in rural USA is a medical center filled with brand-new equipment which can’t pay for itself where there was once a comprehensive doctor’s office tailored to the needs of the community which charged 1/3 of what the clinic was charging while supported by a government grant.

And the government could have saved a lot of money by simply supplying a doctor for the office that already existed.

 

[Santi2]

We’ll you’d be wrong. One of my daughters had strep throat six times this year, and the doctors didn’t consider that enough to have her tonsils removed.

I really cannot comment on your personal circumstances but, would still assert the position as submitted in my earlier post on the basis of risk assessments made by GPs e.g… pre-existing conditions, as well as complications.