Catholic answers please; how do I know if I CAN pray to saints!?

[Dan_Parker]

The ACTUAL bible writer, the Holy Spirit, teaches this through his church.

And, once a saint is in heaven, “remote” and “simultaneous” don’t apply.

We’re talking about Christianity here. The existence of supernatural things that we don’t understand perfectly are a given. If you want the Borg, watch TV.

If you want to be able to place demands on God that he explain things to you, or answer to you; then I advise you to look around carefully to make sure you’re sitting on the sideline you want to be on when the final bell rings.

What you are saying is that even though no bible writer teaches that live Christians can be heard by dead saints even though they don’t vocalize their prayers, you claim the holy spirit has informed you of this.

Please don’t confuse my skepticism of the claim that dead saints hear the prayer of live Christians with placing a demand on God. My request is firmly planted towards those who make this claim. All things are possible with God, but that does not mean every claim is true.

 

[Zundrah]

you can get many cath. books in regular book stores, like Barnes and Nobles, or on Amazon, EWTN web site, catholic websites…
You are seeking the truth, thats wonderful, go for it !!!“seek and you will find”, I love you!

lol - I am definately seeking the truth, and man, can you guess what the truth is? It is this word in a nut shell; Catholic! Amen!

 

[Tomster]

lol - I am definately seeking the truth, and man, can you guess what the truth is? It is this word in a nut shell; Catholic! Amen!

“Z”,

Sorry. I haven’t had time to look up the verses from Macabees for you. No doubt you can find them here at Catholic Answers.

 

[Zundrah]

“Z”,

Sorry. I haven’t had time to look up the verses from Macabees for you. No doubt you can find them here at Catholic Answers.

That’s okay, thank you anyway, and by the way I read psalms 42 that you gave me. Did you read that verse because I upset you?

 

[Tomster]

That’s okay, thank you anyway, and by the way I read psalms 42 that you gave me. Did you read that verse because I upset you?

“Z”,

No, that was not the reason Z. I refer to that Psalm often in my own prayer life. After the sign of the Cross, it is the first prayer offered during the Traditional Latin Mass. That Psalm helps me to keep focused in my daily duties whatever they may be.

If you get the chance, attend the TLM if it is offered in your area.

Also, you are welcome.

 

[Zundrah]

Tomster;5660934]“Z”,

No, that was not the reason Z.

Thank God for that!

I refer to that Psalm often in my own prayer life. After the sign of the Cross, it is the first prayer offered during the Traditional Latin Mass.

Well, that explains why I didn’t know it!

That Psalm helps me to keep focused in my daily duties whatever they may be.

Glory to God alone!

If you get the chance, attend the TLM if it is offered in your area.

TLM!? What is that?

Also, you are welcome.

(I iz a happy protestant today!

 

[leighfus]

This is not biblical, this is just personal. But I started praying to Mary long before I turned Catholic. As far as the Bible goes, I’m not sure if there is anything that spesificly talks about praying to the saints, but your soul is definitely Catholic. I can tell that just by your devotion to the Blessed Mother.
I would suggest that you buy some books on the saints and let their lives and stories touch you and just go from there.
I wish you the best of luck with your search and may God and the Blessed Mother guide and bless you.

I must disagree with the previous statement. Although this teaching is not biblical, Roman Catholicism teaches that you are to pray to Mary (see Catechism of the Catholic Church 2675 and 2679). Mary was a good woman and the mother of Jesus so she should be respected as such but it is not biblical to pray to anyone other than Jesus or God. The saints and Mary are deceased so therefore cannot hear you. They do not have extra powers to hear us and help us here on earth. The only Persons that can hear our prayers and answer them are Divine… If you have any other questions please feel free to email me- lthompson_08@yahoo.com.

In Christian love,
Leigh

 

[SD_Catholic]

I must disagree with the previous statement. Although this teaching is not biblical, Roman Catholicism teaches that you are to pray to Mary (see Catechism of the Catholic Church 2675 and 2679). Mary was a good woman and the mother of Jesus so she should be respected as such but it is not biblical to pray to anyone other than Jesus or God. The saints and Mary are deceased so therefore cannot hear you. They do not have extra powers to hear us and help us here on earth. The only Persons that can hear our prayers and answer them are Divine… If you have any other questions please feel free to email me- lthompson_08@yahoo.com.

In Christian love,
Leigh

Everything that I see in Scripture tells me that those who live for Christ never die? The body yes, but never the soul… would you agree with this? I have yet to see the words in Scripture that say the saints “can’t hear us”… only through someone’s misguided interpretation are these words seen. The perfected soul of the saint who serves God in his heavenly kingdom is who we Catholics ask to pray with us. Do you think a perfected soul in heaven has the same limitations as a human on earth? Please study this topic more in depth through a Catholic source… to find out what we believe and why we believe in saintly intercession.

ps… I just noticed this was your first post… I hope you enjoy your time here, even though we share different beliefs, I hope you are open to understanding where Catholic beliefs originate from… hint… they are very historic and Biblical (they just don’t seem that way to you…yet!)

With you in Christ
SD

 

[Don9of11]

One source in the new testament that I can point you to you which gives proof that we can ask the saints to pray for us or intercede for us especially the Blessed Mother, is the Wedding Feast of Cana. As you know at the wedding feast Jesus turns water into wine. But if you read carefully something else happened here as well. The stewards or those who were in charge of the wine did not go to Jesus directly instead they when to his mother. They informed her of the situation and asked her what they should do. She in turn, intercedes for them by bringing the stewards to Jesus and telling him they have no more wine. This particular moment tells us firmly that we can always approach the Blessed Mother or any saint for that matter and ask them to intercede for us.

 

[Dan_Parker]

One source in the new testament that I can point you to you which gives proof that we can ask the saints to pray for us or intercede for us especially the Blessed Mother, is the Wedding Feast of Cana. As you know at the wedding feast Jesus turns water into wine. But if you read carefully something else happened here as well. The stewards or those who were in charge of the wine did not go to Jesus directly instead they when to his mother. They informed her of the situation and asked her what they should do. She in turn, intercedes for them by bringing the stewards to Jesus and telling him they have no more wine. This particular moment tells us firmly that we can always approach the Blessed Mother or any saint for that matter and ask them to intercede for us.

Dan:
I am not sure if this was directed to my questions, but it does not answer my concern about the ability of dead saints to hear multiple simultaneous prayers all over the earth even if they are not vocalized. Also, I find your example very forced. There are lots of examples in scripture where someone intercedes for someone else that you would not consider prayer.

 

[SD_Catholic]

Dan:
I am not sure if this was directed to my questions, but it does not answer my concern about the ability of dead saints to hear multiple simultaneous prayers all over the earth even if they are not vocalized. Also, I find your example very forced. There are lots of examples in scripture where someone intercedes for someone else that you would not consider prayer.

perhaps you could address some of the other posts that you seem to have missed then… because you’re continued use of the term “dead saints” is becoming a bit trite, and shown many times to be contrary to Scripture.

SD

 

[Dan_Parker]

perhaps you could address some of the other posts that you seem to have missed then… because you’re continued use of the term “dead saints” is becoming a bit trite, and shown many times to be contrary to Scripture.

SD

You mean the term is not accurate? They have not yet been resurrected, have they? What bible writer teaches that when one is resurrected they don’t have a body? The entirety of 1Co 15 refutes that notion.

Paul claims that without the resurrection he describes in 1Co 15, those who have died are “utterly lost.”

NJB 1 Corinthians 15:17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is pointless and you have not, after all, been released from your sins. 18 In addition, those who have fallen asleep in Christ are** utterly lost**.

When will they be brought to life?

NJB 1 Corinthians 15:22 Just as all die in Adam, so in Christ all will be brought to life; 23 but all of them in their proper order: Christ the first-fruits, and next, at his coming, those who belong to him.

Anyone who teaches otherwise has gone astray from the truth.

NJB 2 Timothy 2:18 the men who have gone astray from the truth, claiming that the resurrection has already taken place. They are upsetting some people’s faith

Do you maintain that Paul was wrong to write this to Timothy, years after Jesus had been resurrected?

 

[SD_Catholic]

You mean the term is not accurate? They have not yet been resurrected, have they? What bible writer teaches that when one is resurrected they don’t have a body? The entirety of 1Co 15 refutes that notion.

Paul claims that without the resurrection he describes in 1Co 15, those who have died are “utterly lost.”

NJB 1 Corinthians 15:17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is pointless and you have not, after all, been released from your sins. 18 In addition, those who have fallen asleep in Christ are** utterly lost**.

When will they be brought to life?

NJB 1 Corinthians 15:22 Just as all die in Adam, so in Christ all will be brought to life; 23 but all of them in their proper order: Christ the first-fruits, and next, at his coming, those who belong to him.

Anyone who teaches otherwise has gone astray from the truth.

NJB 2 Timothy 2:18 the men who have gone astray from the truth, claiming that the resurrection has already taken place. They are upsetting some people’s faith

Do you maintain that Paul was wrong to write this to Timothy, years after Jesus had been resurrected?

Dan… I don’t feel a need to reanswer your questions if you want to ignore the responses you were already given… please refer back to posts #63 and #66 for the answers.

If you are honestly searching for answers to your questions that is great, but it doesn’t seem to me that’s the case… I’m not sure of your agenda, but if it doesn’t involve honest discussion please tell me

SD

 

[Dan_Parker]

Dan… I don’t feel a need to reanswer your questions if you want to ignore the responses you were already given… please refer back to posts #63 and #66 for the answers.

If you are honestly searching for answers to your questions that is great, but it doesn’t seem to me that’s the case… I’m not sure of your agenda, but if it doesn’t involve honest discussion please tell me

SD

What you write is very foreign to me, so please be patient. I went back and re-read #63 and #66. I see that you claim that those in heaven who have died are not dead. But I don’t understand how they are not dead if they have not yet been resurrected. Paul in 1Co 15 says the only hope for the dead is the resurrection or they are utterly lost. Sorry but I am still confused by your position.

 

[Don9of11]

Dan:
I am not sure if this was directed to my questions, but it does not answer my concern about the ability of dead saints to hear multiple simultaneous prayers all over the earth even if they are not vocalized. Also, I find your example very forced. There are lots of examples in scripture where someone intercedes for someone else that you would not consider prayer.

Could someone please provide me with some biblical evidence to support our prayers to the Saints (and Mary of course) as being legitimate? Thank you.

I thought my example was to the point according to your original post. You asked for biblical evidence to support prayers to Saints and there is no greater evidence then our Blessed Mother who was assumed into heaven body and soul. There are countless examples of intercessory prayer and biblical evidence to support them and they have been presented to you. Revelations Chapter 6 and 8 both show that the voices of the saints cry out and rise up before God. This could not be possible if they were “dead”.

 

[SD_Catholic]

What you write is very foreign to me, so please be patient. I went back and re-read #63 and #66. I see that you claim that those in heaven who have died are not dead. But I don’t understand how they are not dead if they have not yet been resurrected. Paul in 1Co 15 says the only hope for the dead is the resurrection or they are utterly lost. Sorry but I am still confused by your position.

You’re right… I do need to be more patient, I assume too much sometimes, sorry.

Ok… Even you talked about the saints in heaven offering prayers (Revelation), although you say it is only to avenge their own blood (not important for my point). How do you explain these saints being in heaven and praying at all if they are “dead”? If their souls are “dead” with their bodies how can they be offering prayers at all, even if it is as you say for their own vengeance. I have to admit this part confuses me… perhaps you could explain.

SD

 

[Dan_Parker]

"Dan:

What you write is very foreign to me, so please be patient. I went back and re-read #63 and #66. I see that you claim that those in heaven who have died are not dead. But I don’t understand how they are not dead if they have not yet been resurrected. Paul in 1Co 15 says the only hope for the dead is the resurrection or they are utterly lost. Sorry but I am still confused by your position.

You’re right… I do need to be more patient, I assume too much sometimes, sorry.

Ok… Even you talked about the saints in heaven offering prayers (Revelation), although you say it is only to avenge their own blood (not important for my point). How do you explain these saints being in heaven and praying at all if they are “dead”? If their souls are “dead” with their bodies how can they be offering prayers at all, even if it is as you say for their own vengeance. I have to admit this part confuses me… perhaps you could explain.

SD

Sure, we view Revelation as a highly symbolic book. Since “the soul [or, life] of the flesh is in the blood,” what is really represented as being at the foot of the altar is the blood of faithful servants of Jesus who were slaughtered because of their bold and zealous witnessing.—Leviticus 17:11.

Like the blood of righteous Abel, the blood of these Christian martyrs is crying out for justice. (DRA Genesis 4:10 And he said to him: What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth to me from the earth.)

Hope that helps your confusion as to my position and that this helps you with your response to help me understand what I bolded above in red.

 

[SD_Catholic]

Sure, we view Revelation as a highly symbolic book. Since “the soul [or, life] of the flesh is in the blood,” what is really represented as being at the foot of the altar is the blood of faithful servants of Jesus who were slaughtered because of their bold and zealous witnessing.—Leviticus 17:11.

Like the blood of righteous Abel, the blood of these Christian martyrs is crying out for justice. (DRA Genesis 4:10 And he said to him: What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth to me from the earth.)

Hope that helps your confusion as to my position and that this helps you with your response to help me understand what I bolded above in red.

So you’re saying that it’s actually not the saints but only their blood (you previously had said the saints)? And this blood is some how able to offer prayers… even if it were their “blood crying out” how could this be for something that is “dead”? I’m still struggling

SD

 

[Dan_Parker]

So you’re saying that it’s actually not the saints but only their blood (you previously had said the saints)? And this blood is some how able to offer prayers… even if it were their “blood crying out” how could this be for something that is “dead”? I’m still struggling

SD

Oh, I see your confusion. I was asking about **your **belief about the saints in heaven. That is because I thought Catholics like Protestants believed that the hope for the dead is the resurrection and also did not beleive that Catholics believed the resurrection has already taken place. I am still confused about that. It appears that you don’t believe the person dies but that just their body dies and that you consider them to still be alive. But Paul says those who have died are utterly lost if they are not resurrected.

NJB 1 Corinthians 15:18 In addition, those who have fallen asleep in Christ are utterly lost

You don’t consider these ones to be dead, but that is not what Revelation says:
NJB Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, where they took their seats, and on them was conferred the power to give judgement. I saw the souls of all who had been beheaded for having witnessed for Jesus and for having preached God’s word, and those who refused to worship the beast or his statue and would not accept the brand-mark on their foreheads or hands; they came to life, and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over; this is the first resurrection.

Notice that these souls who were preaching God’s word but where killed are still considered “dead” until there are resurrected.

 

[SD_Catholic]

Oh, I see your confusion. I was asking about **your **belief about the saints in heaven. That is because I thought Catholics like Protestants believed that the hope for the dead is the resurrection and also did not beleive that Catholics believed the resurrection has already taken place. I am still confused about that. It appears that you don’t believe the person dies but that just their body dies and that you consider them to still be alive. But Paul says those who have died are utterly lost if they are not resurrected.

NJB 1 Corinthians 15:18 In addition, those who have fallen asleep in Christ are utterly lost

You don’t consider these ones to be dead, but that is not what Revelation says:
NJB Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, where they took their seats, and on them was conferred the power to give judgement. I saw the souls of all who had been beheaded for having witnessed for Jesus and for having preached God’s word, and those who refused to worship the beast or his statue and would not accept the brand-mark on their foreheads or hands; they came to life, and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over; this is the first resurrection.

Notice that these souls who were preaching God’s word but where killed are still considered “dead” until there are resurrected.

When a Catholic reads “fallen asleep” or “dead” it means the state of the human body, not the soul… just for argument sake try to place those meanings to the words when you read them (even if it’s temporary). It will make a lot more sense when you see the Bible talk about souls in heaven. I’m sure you already have an idea of what Catholics believe, but we understand that our earthly body dies an earthly death. Our soul will then be judged either destined for Heaven or hell. Our bodies remain dead or "asleep"until Christ comes for his final judgement, at which time our bodies will be ressurected and reunited with our perfected souls (assuming we make it to heaven), which were already living with Christ in heaven.

Would you say that both die and stay that way till??? But then you show me a verse that seems to say the souls have taken their thrones… how does a “dead” soul take a throne?

SD