Catholic but not Roman Catholic

[planter654]

Exactly what?
Some hearsay story about “a church in Toronto” that was supposedly all over the news, with nary a link to be found and NOTHING at all to back up the assertions but somebody’s ‘sayso’?

What strikes me is that we can offer up various proofs like the fact that the late John Paul II’s will showed that he had no assets to bequeath to anybody vatican.va/gpII/documents/testamento-jp-ii_20050407_en.html
(so much for the theory that Popes get PAID) --a story which was “all over the news” back in April of 2005, I might add, yet the standard answer is, “You’re not the accountant and everybody KNOWS that lawyers, etc. can fudge documents to make it LOOK like rich people are really poor.”

Nothing like the Christian charity of calling your fellow Christians liars, thieves and cheats, on the ASSUMPTION that you just can’t trust what they say, show or do, because “anybody can fudge documents”.

It was not about getting paid it was about our Pope being poor!

No, The Catholic Church in Toronto is fact! God is my witness. All over the news in our area and in the paper. Because alot of churches are closing it drew interest and great concern. Liar is that not what you are calling me? That is the truth!

Documents are done professional. It is a reality. That is why we have special lawyers in that field, do we not? Ever of hear of fraud those are people who get caught. Look at Enron how long was that going on? Not till a honest truthful soul exposed it?

Saying that the Pope is poor was the point I was making, our Dear Pope is well provided for, loved etc.

If you think Christians have not lied, stolen, been thieves and have not cheated I do not know what planted you are living on.Priest are human also are they not? Are we not all sinners. We are all being tested daily in our lives.

As far as a will you can have more than one, with one not knowing about the other. Personal and Corportate. A will within a will with family members not knowing ever of the other.

I am not saying this about the Pope only please do not tell me he is poor, know what the true word of poor means first when it comes to basic needs to live.

God Bless

 

[planter654]

I’m not their accountant but I cited the sources which provide reliable source that the Pope isn’t rich.

I do not care if our Dear Pope is rich but do not tell me he is poor.

God Bless

 

[Mannyfit75]

I do not care if our Dear Pope is rich but do not tell me he is poor.

God Bless

He has no income or bank account. He is technically poor.

 

[planter654]

He has no income or bank account. He is technically poor.

Mannyfit have you seen the web site called “Hebrews of Africa” on google first entry at top. I found it very interesting you can click on side panels also on page. Just let me know what you think

God Bless

 

[planter654]

Exactly what?
Some hearsay story about “a church in Toronto” that was supposedly all over the news, with nary a link to be found and NOTHING at all to back up the assertions but somebody’s ‘sayso’?

What strikes me is that we can offer up various proofs like the fact that the late John Paul II’s will showed that he had no assets to bequeath to anybody vatican.va/gpII/documents/testamento-jp-ii_20050407_en.html
(so much for the theory that Popes get PAID) --a story which was “all over the news” back in April of 2005, I might add, yet the standard answer is, “You’re not the accountant and everybody KNOWS that lawyers, etc. can fudge documents to make it LOOK like rich people are really poor.”

Nothing like the Christian charity of calling your fellow Christians liars, thieves and cheats, on the ASSUMPTION that you just can’t trust what they say, show or do, because “anybody can fudge documents”.

I told the truth, but seeing you like things to back you up and don’t believe, need proof, fudge documents.

Then could you please then check this web site out and direct me on the right path it is called " Hebrews of Africa" on google. It is the first one at the top of the page click on that one. Another one is called " Israelite Heritage". I had to keep reminding myself this was in the time of Abraham and Moses now. Thanks.

God Bless

 

[planter654]

Exactly what?
Some hearsay story about “a church in Toronto” that was supposedly all over the news, with nary a link to be found and NOTHING at all to back up the assertions but somebody’s ‘sayso’?

What strikes me is that we can offer up various proofs like the fact that the late John Paul II’s will showed that he had no assets to bequeath to anybody vatican.va/gpII/documents/testamento-jp-ii_20050407_en.html
(so much for the theory that Popes get PAID) --a story which was “all over the news” back in April of 2005, I might add, yet the standard answer is, “You’re not the accountant and everybody KNOWS that lawyers, etc. can fudge documents to make it LOOK like rich people are really poor.”

Nothing like the Christian charity of calling your fellow Christians liars, thieves and cheats, on the ASSUMPTION that you just can’t trust what they say, show or do, because “anybody can fudge documents”.

I told the truth, but seeing you like things to back you up and don’t believe, need proof, fudge documents. I know what you are saying, thou you can’t trust everything everyone says, you are right!! But I was telling you the truth.

Then could you please then check this web site out and direct me on the right path, it is called " Hebrews of Africa" on google. It is the first one at the top of the page click on that one. Another one is called " Israelite Heritage".

I had to keep reminding myself this was in the time of Abraham and Moses now and where they came from. I was looking for history of the Israelite and more on Hebrews when this came up. Thanks.

God Bless

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I’ll tell you what. Why don’t YOU, plantar, go to the web site (The Vatican) that I gave the link to in MY post, and read it? And tell me what you think?

 

[planter654]

I’ll tell you what. Why don’t YOU, plantar, go to the web site (The Vatican) that I gave the link to in MY post, and read it? And tell me what you think?

Ok and thank you. I will and appreciate that. We are all seeking to understand and know God, where we came from etc.

Thank you again Tantum

God Bless

 

[planter654]

I’ll tell you what. Why don’t YOU, plantar, go to the web site (The Vatican) that I gave the link to in MY post, and read it? And tell me what you think?

I have your web site under favorites to refer to. It is a beautiful site of info. What is it that you are upset with me. For all have received so no one can boast.

God has a great plan. I understand the meaning when God said I have chosen you, not because you were the greatest, but because you were the smallest have I chosen you… Moses ( Hebrew), Abraham, Issac, Jacob (Israel) King David, Jesus, we now also have been grafted on the tree of life. Jesus tells us we were not of the natural tree, but because of their sins disobedients we were grated on etc.

God’s I will and curses. God is Truth he says what he means and does what he says, don’t you think.

Because Jesus has shown mercy to us, I think you know what I am trying to say. If we received mercy how much more they who are of the natural branches will also now receive mercy. Not till all the gentles are in.

Who ever is ashamed of me, I also will be ashamed of you in the present of my Father.

I also understand now that Moses mother was a Hebrew slave. the lower class the poor. Slaves were the lower class almost like today, we have the rich, middle class, the poor.
I understand why Jesus was sent into Egpyt to hid there.

I also now understand when God says no one serves righteousness and justice, this is what pleases God. Jesus did.

Any way thank you for your web site info and God Bless. a very little child of God. But you do not ask me, well I am asking Jesus to teach me to know him.

 

[planter654]

I’ll tell you what. Why don’t YOU, plantar, go to the web site (The Vatican) that I gave the link to in MY post, and read it? And tell me what you think?

What do I think?
I think I want to become more “FOOLISH” so I can become wise.

Only becoming a very little child can we become Spiritually Mature.

Knowing that I am dung on the ground and can accomplish nothing without God, but giving my nothingness to God. For nothing is impossible with God. For it is God who makes us “Holy”. For the Kingdom of Heaven is made of such…little children.

God Bless thank you again.

 

[planter654]

I’ll tell you what. Why don’t YOU, plantar, go to the web site (The Vatican) that I gave the link to in MY post, and read it? And tell me what you think?

I think and know I was created in God’s image.

God’s Image to me is this
GOD IS THE GREAT " I AM" I-- “ONE”, A–“ALL”, M-- “MIGHTY”
GOD IS " ONE ALL MIGHTY GOD"
OD IS “LOVE”
GOD IS OUR FATHER
GOD IS “ALL TRUTH”
GOD IS ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS
GOD IS ALL JUSTICE
GOD IS ALL TRUSTING
GOD IS INFINITE
GOD IS ALL ETERNAL
GOD IS OUR CREATOR
GOD IS ALL MERCYFUL
GOD IS ALL POWERFUL
GOD IS ALL ALMIGHTY
GOD IS INFINITE WISDOM
GOD IS ALL KNOWING
GOD IS ALL UNDERSTANDING
GOD IS ALL SEEING
GOD IS NOT A LIAR
GOD IS ALL GIVING
GOD IS ALL COMPASSION
GOD IS ALL SUFFERRING
GOD IS ALL JOY
GOD IS ALL NOURISHING
GOD IS HUMBLE–DID JESUS NOT SHOW US AND TEACH US
GOD IS PEACE

THIS IS THE IMAGE OF GOD AND MORE THEN WE CAN HUMANLY UNDERSTAND… READ JOB CHAPTER 38, WERE HE PUTS US ALL IN OUR PLACE…

Our flesh is dead because of our sins, but use it now to do good. Keep your hands busy ( charity) and your conscience clear (pure thoughts, put on the mind of Christ) and you shall do well. St. Paul.

Tantum are we still not serving our flesh? vanity, pride etc.

Seek God’s image before you always seek to become “one” in the image of God. For if we say with our lips the we truly believe in faith, we know that “NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE WITH GOD”.

Yes give him even your body, your very life. Allowing God to accomplish his works in you, his will, his desires. Come God, glorify thyself in me.So others will see your image and seek thee.

a very little child of God…GOD LOVES US ALL DEARLY.

 

[planter654]

I’ll tell you what. Why don’t YOU, plantar, go to the web site (The Vatican) that I gave the link to in MY post, and read it? And tell me what you think?

Tantum I forgot to mention…
GOD IS KINDNESS,
GOD KNOWS WE ARE VERY LITTLE
GOD IS PATIENT…THANKS BE TO GOD FOR WERE WOULD WE BE?

a very little child of God…God Bless

 

[planter654]

A majority of the income of the priest are given as donation to the church. I also like to note that priests in holy orders take a vow of poverty. Diocesan priests do have income and don’t take any vows.

God Bless Thank you!

 

[planter654]

I can see it now…a new book published by Christian Resources (Webster’s group), kinda like volume 3 of their Sola Scriptura volumes, but with 400 pages of “quotes” from the Fathers

Catholic But Not Roman Catholic: Why a Church that is 15 years old is better than a Church that is 2000 years old, But Contradicts what the Apostles Taught – An Exhaustive Refutation of Roman Catholicism (but not Eastern Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, or Lutheranism) from the Fathers, who were not Roman Catholic!

Endorsements from leading evangelical “scholars”

Eric Svendsen: “…one of the sharpest minds in evangelical theology today, tells it like it is from the Church Fathers…”

Interesting…God Bless

James White: “…I thought I knew the Fathers, until I read this book. Wow!”

William Webster: “…learned, scholarly, irrefutable, undeniable contradictions in the Fathers. Yes, they were not Roman Catholic.”

Then this one word review:

Pelikan: “Drivel.”

Phil P

 

[planter654]

There was an emperor, that’s what I meant and you know it.

Eastern Orthodoxy is that of Constantinople. If you’ve managed without a pope of any kind, it’s either because you’ve stagnated or moved in various errors.

Interesting Thank you.

 

[planter654]

Yes, the Arian heresy almost took over the Church. But where do you get the idea that “until 325 the Catholic Church wasn’t even in agreement in whether or not Jesus was God”?

It’s called a HERESY for a reason…it means it is in opposition to the established orthodox faith.

The Catholic Church believes Jesus is Lord from AD 33 onward. Heretics did not.

who were the Heretics…just asking?

God Bless

 

[planter654]

SPH << But that isn’t really you goal. Rather, your goal is to attack the Catholic Church itself at it’s core, to replace the magisterium with you and James White. >>

Hee hee. Your earlier point about the Trinity is a good one, since you won’t find the language “of one substance” or “the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are eternal distinct Persons, equal in nature, substance, essence,” etc. The doctrine developed in the same Church, and by the same people, that developed the doctrines of Mary.

For example, JND Kelly on the Trinity:

“The Church had to wait for more than three hundred years for a final synthesis, for not until the council of Constantinople (381) was the formula of one God existing in three co-equal Persons formally ratified. Tentative theories, however, some more and some less satisfactory, were propounded in the preceding centuries…The evidence to be collected from the Apostolic Fathers is meagre, and tantalizingly inconclusive…Of a doctrine of the Trinity in the strict sense there is of course no sign…” (Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines, page 87-88, 95, cf. page 101ff for the 2nd century Apologists)

And from Eric Svendsen (a JasonTE mentor):

“There have been many beliefs held by the church for hundreds of years before some controversy forced it into the open and an official statement was made. Very little was said about a belief in the Trinity before the council of Nicaea and the Athanasian creed. Are we to assume that the church did not widely hold to a belief in the Trinity before Nicaea? Of course not…The reason little was said about the Trinity before Nicaea is that it was not an issue until Nicaea. Arius could well have argued that belief in the Trinity was unhistorical in his day (after all, there were no explicit statements about the Trinity for three-hundred years)…” (Eric Svendsen, Evangelical Answers, page 120)

I also quote E. Calvin Beisner, the evangelical scholar/historian (brother of Gretchen Passantino) here on development of doctrine:

Second Rebuttal my debate with JasonTE

The doctrine of the Trinity, and the Marian doctrines, developed in the same Church, and by the same Fathers, Doctors, and Catholic theologians. To accept the one, and reject the others seems a bit inconsistent. For one to claim to be “Catholic” as the Fathers (but not “Roman Catholic”), one should go at least as far as saints Augustine and Aquinas and make Mary an exception to sin – along with Mother of God and perpetual Virgin of course which even the original Protestants accepted.

Phil P

All this information confuses me, I am glad Jesus spoke I am the Shepherd you are the sheep. People could at least understand what a Shepherd was for they were called Shepherds who had sheep. They knew what they had to do to care for their sheep.

I read a book on a man who raised sheep. He believes in God.
He said that if a sheep falls on its back it cannot roll over to stand on its feet without his Shepherd coming to rescuit him. He said if this happens he has to go, help, roll the sheep to get back on his feet. If the sheep seperates from the flock and gets lost and this happens to the sheep. The sheep has only 24 hrs to live if the sheep is not found to be help back on its feet. How to take care of the sheep’s wool from getting blemishes, infections etc. How he leads them up mountains, how some fall, leads them to streams of water when their is not much rain… etc. The man applied it to when he read the gospel when Jesus speaks of things like this. Interesting.

Must more simple for a soul like me. God Bless

 

[richardwy]

I wish moderators would have stepped in on this thread.

 

[jblake]

planter654;:

It is the vocation they have chosen and they are well provided for within the community of the faithful. I know we have just build the community a beautiful new home for our priest like others.

How well provided a specific priest is, depends upon:

where the support for that priest comes from;​

how far up the hierarchy the priest has risen;​

• In the US, a priest probably can count on going to bed having eaten three meals that day, and sleeping in a warm bed;
• In the third world, that is the case only if he has the skills to build dwellings, and grow food. And can fit those two tasks in after doing the rest of his duties;

The other issue is whether or not the priest has taken a vow of poverty. The consequences, and side effects of that vow play a major role in the type of community support that the priest gets.

xan

jonathon

 

[planter654]

How well provided a specific priest is, depends upon:

where the support for that priest comes from;​

how far up the hierarchy the priest has risen;​

• In the US, a priest probably can count on going to bed having eaten three meals that day, and sleeping in a warm bed;
• In the third world, that is the case only if he has the skills to build dwellings, and grow food. And can fit those two tasks in after doing the rest of his duties;

The other issue is whether or not the priest has taken a vow of poverty. The consequences, and side effects of that vow play a major role in the type of community support that the priest gets.

xan

jonathon

Thank you very much Jonathon. Like Mother Theresa read all her books. She lived, ate what the poor ate, slept among the poor etc. She suffered in the heat, sleep on the floors, sometimes never went to bed up through the night. Mother Theresa was truly a living saint, I thank God for sending her to us to bare witness and to learn truly what serving God is all about.

Young volunteers that went there could not even keep up with her in her daily pace. She truly saw Jesus in each soul, no matter what their faith or believe was. She faithfully served God in the purest sense, never judging only serving God first— in all things.

She too only had a pail and the clothing on her back maybe one other outfit.

Mother Theresa called the west spiritually poor, how true that statement is. That really made me think deeply, looking at myself.

reading all this here how true. Keep our hands busy.

God Bless you for you kindness–a very little child.