Catholic Charismatic Questions and Answers

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robertaf:
Greetings Church,
I would like to refer everyone to my first post.
Please, lets keep this Question and Answer forum and refrain from any debate at all.
I realize it is hard sometimes not to insert posts that we feel strongly about. I would ask that you keep it for another thread, open to debate.
Thanks and God Bless you all
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Sorry Roberta,

I’ll stop responding
 
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Mysty101:
Actually the scripture was not pertinant to this discussion, as I explained,
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The verse in question was Matthew 6:7. “And when you are praying, speak not much as the heathens do; for they think they shall be heard for their much speaking.” ( D-R) Then the commentary says.

Long prayer is not forbidden. Jesus prayed for hours. Prayers should not have an intermission (pauses). Fancy, rhetorical and elaborate prayer said with emotion is prohibited.Our words in our prayers should honor and glorify God.

There is nothing said about praying in strange languages! So by omission it does say not to try to babble. By ommision it doesn’t say to pray in in a foriegn language.
 
What exactly is the gift of tears, and why is it considered a gift? Where is it mentioned as a gift? I am having huge problems with this these days (actually about a half a year now) and it doesn’t feel the least bit like a gift. It feels like a mockery of those who having personal problems, to see them and be moved to tears, when I don’t knwo the first thing about them as individuals.
 
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serendipity:
What exactly is the gift of tears, and why is it considered a gift? Where is it mentioned as a gift? I am having huge problems with this these days (actually about a half a year now) and it doesn’t feel the least bit like a gift. It feels like a mockery of those who having personal problems, to see them and be moved to tears, when I don’t knwo the first thing about them as individuals.
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Hi Serendipity,
Sometimes, some of us old Charismatics are guilty of using terminology very freely. The Renewal was so very new to us that we sometimes invented terms. This is the truth.
With tears, we very often saw them accompanied by some sort of healing. I have seen it with Spiritual healing as well as physical healings. Of course we often see tears when a person comes face to face with a sin during repentance. There are tears of joy as well. All of these might be referred to as “gift”. Some discernemnt always needs to be made. Oh, by the way, tears are very common when a person has been bothered by bad spirits and the spirit(s) leave. It is then a bit of a cleansing, I think.
We do not know all the reasons folks cry during a Spiritual Experience but we know they do.
Laughter is also seen, although I don’t believe it is so common.
Our love for God and these Spiritual events touch our entire being and despite the contempt some folks hold for “emotions” it is a natural part of us and a huge part of Love.
 
What exactly is the gift of tears, and why is it considered a gift? Where is it mentioned as a gift? I am having huge problems with this these days (actually about a half a year now) and it doesn’t feel the least bit like a gift. It feels like a mockery of those who having personal problems, to see them and be moved to tears, when I don’t knwo the first thing about them as individuals.
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The gift of tears is an openess to the Holy Spirit. When you are moved to tears by people but have no idea what is going on, the Holy Spirit does and it is that which you sense.

One of my most vivid memories of the gift of tears was when (in a pentecostal church) we were having a Bible study on the Rapture. People were going on and on about how they were praying for the Lord to return soon.

As more and more spoke, tears started running down my face. I kept quietly wiping them off, over and over. And then an anger started to come along with the tears.

Finally, I spoke shaking with anger and tears pouring down my face, “If you truly believe in the rapture, you need to stop praying for the rapture and start praying for you brother, mother, sister, and neighbor who are going to hell because they do not know the Lord!”

The pastor said, “This is a work of the Holy Spirit, we need to pray right now” We did. Funny thing, I didn’t realize until right now exactly how I worded it, I had said “if you believe…” I was not validating the concept of the rapture, just saying how wrong they were to be praying for it.

I would certainly call something like that a gift. Something that can change the direction of peoples hearts from praying for the Lord’s speedy return to praying for lost souls.

I pray that God will give you “moment” where it can be seen as such.

God Bless,
Maria
 
Hello my brothers and sisters in Christ! Just about tongues again, they are Gifts of the Holy Spirit for the up build of the Church and one of them is for our personal life. I had said a couple of days ago about there are 4 different kinds of tongues the New Testament talks about. Not only have I read about them in the bible but also experience in Charismatic prayer meetings, Charismatic Conferences and in my prayer life.
1st) TONGUES TO THE UNBLIEVERS: Acts 2:4-6 Praising God in tongues (in different languages) .5-.13 there were people from different nations and they heard their own language (tongues) from all who were in the upper room. What happened to them? they came to believe in Jesus Christ. This could be either have been a “miracle of hearing” or, perhaps the disciples were speaking in tongues that the bystanders happened to know.
2nd) PRAYING IN TONGUES:
1 Corinthians 14:2 and Mark 16:17-18
a) It help the individual to fulfill Christ’s command to pray aways.
b) It is an aid to recollection and leads to more fervent mental prayer.
c) It is the doorway to charismatic ministries- the use of prayer tongues somehow sensitizes the person to yield to other charismatic activity of the Holy Spirit.
d) It is a personal, concrete sign of God’s action within.
e) It is a powerful weapon against Satan.
3rd) SPEAKING IN TONGUES 1Cor 14:27 & 1 Cor. 12:10
The gift of tongue is a passing manifestation of the Holy Spirit whereby an individual is prompted to “give a message in tongues” speak aloud, by himself, usually at a prayer meeting. The gift of tongues should be followed by the charismatic gift of interpretation. The gift of tongues followed by interpretation is very close to prophecy. 1 Cor. 12:10
4th) GIFT of INTERPRETATION OF TONGUES 1 Cor.14:26-27
It ties in with the gift of tongues (above) It’s a gift to discernament or interrpert tongues that is given to the body.
Code: 
 Now about what I said the other day of praying in tongues can help you get holier faster???? First of all, I never said the only way to get holy is by praying in tongues.  I was just trying to say what a powerful and wonderful gift the Holy Spirit wants to give all of us!  St. Paul says that he would like all of us to have the gift of praying in tongues 1 cor.14:5                                                      You know that without prayer or a prayer life we will never get holy.  If we would truly understand and experience this prayer of praying in tongues everyday, it can do wonders in your daily life and in our lives.  Do you understand when you pray in tongues, you are allowing the Holy Spirit to pray for you through you? (your tongue) who knows how to pray more then God himself (the Holy Spirit!) WOW!  It's like God praying to God through us. The Holy Spirit prays a perfect prayer or for His perfect will to be done in our lives! (Romans 8:26-27)  In my life I pray everyday in tongues and with other devotion prayers to be holy for God.

 Lastly, about who started the charismatic renewal in the Catholic Church?  The Holy Spirit himself, and yes of course through men and women (just like the book of Acts) who gathered to pray for a deeper out pouring of the Holy Spirit in their lives at a retreat back in 1967 at Duquesne University in Pittsburgh.  Shortly, after they were baptize in the Holy Spirit, it spread out like wild fire, sounds familar (Luke 12:49) and you know what it was right after Pope John XXIII prayer right after Vatican II: To the Holy Spirit to renew his wonders in our time, as by a "new Pentecost."  Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II have both recognized and endorsed the Catholic charismatic renewal as a genuine work of the Holy Spirit.                                             Praise be to the Father, and the Son and of the Holy Spirit!  "Always go forward and never turn back" Blessed Fr. Serra,   John M.
 
I think my experience of Pentecostalism is not unimportant. There have been quite a few invented “gifts”, such as “tears” and “laughter”, that I’ve heard about since I became Catholic. They aren’t scriptural. This shows how the end of it all is seeking more and more sensation instead of God. That is certainly where every Pentecostal I knew, including myself, got lead astray. Some realized in time and found more conventional churches or liturgy. Others lost their faith, since there was nothing to sustain them…
 
posted by LeetaI think my experience of Pentecostalism is not unimportant. There have been quite a few invented “gifts”, such as “tears” and “laughter”, that I’ve heard about since I became Catholic. They aren’t scriptural. This shows how the end of it all is seeking more and more sensation instead of God. That is certainly where every Pentecostal I knew, including myself, got lead astray. Some realized in time and found more conventional churches or liturgy. Others lost their faith, since there was nothing to sustain them…
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I am sorry you feel that way. I am glad you were able to grow past the emotionalism of Pentecostals, the idea if you don’t “feel” it, God is not there. But don’t throw out the “feeling” just because your roots have grown deeper. There are times that the Lord just makes me walk with Him on Faith, but it is always refreshing when that joy that surpasses all understanding settles upon me in different forms, including tears and gentle laughter especially after recieving my Lord in the Eucharist.

God Bless,
Maria
 
That actually brings up my next question: Who does this? (the baptism in the Spirit) Is it only Bishops or can anyone in the Catholic Church do it if they have the gift for it?

Your sister in Christ,
Maria
 
This is usually done at a LISS (Life in the Spirit Seminar), by prayer group leaders, or members of prayer teams.

Here’s a thread on it
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=9600

My main thought, which I have expressed many times is to be certain you are involved with a legitimate Catholic group, with authentic leadership, under authentic Catholic authority.
 
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Leeta:
I think my experience of Pentecostalism is not unimportant. There have been quite a few invented gifts such as “tears” and “laughter”, that I’ve heard about since I became Catholic. They aren’t scriptural. This shows how the end of it all is seeking more and more sensation instead of God. That is certainly where every Pentecostal I knew, including myself, got lead astray. Some realized in time and found more conventional churches or liturgy. Others lost their faith, since there was nothing to sustain them…
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Again I repeat -My main thought, which I have expressed many times is to be certain you are involved with a legitimate Catholic group, with authentic leadership, under authentic Catholic authority.

It is very unfair to CCR to use examples of non-Catholic or inauthentic Charismatic worship to condemn CCR.
 
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robertaf:
Hi Serendipity,
Sometimes, some of us old Charismatics are guilty of using terminology very freely. The Renewal was so very new to us that we sometimes invented terms. This is the truth.
With tears, we very often saw them accompanied by some sort of healing. I have seen it with Spiritual healing as well as physical healings. Of course we often see tears when a person comes face to face with a sin during repentance. There are tears of joy as well. All of these might be referred to as “gift”. Some discernemnt always needs to be made. Oh, by the way, tears are very common when a person has been bothered by bad spirits and the spirit(s) leave. It is then a bit of a cleansing, I think.
We do not know all the reasons folks cry during a Spiritual Experience but we know they do.
Laughter is also seen, although I don’t believe it is so common.
Our love for God and these Spiritual events touch our entire being and despite the contempt some folks hold for “emotions” it is a natural part of us and a huge part of Love.
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Hi Roberta,With age come Godly wisdom and understanding for those who seek His face.Roberta it shows in you. 😉 God Bless
 
Thanks guys for all your patience in trying to exactly explain a miraculous event. Not an easy task to put into words, the works of God.

This one is what finally helped me to understand. I know many of you used these words, but I guess it was the way the article layed it all out that helped me to understand. I post the link again for others.

catholicapologetics.org/ap060400.htm

Here is the end of the article that finally brought understanding to my brain. The whole article has Scripture and church documents but due to space I will just paste the words that finally made it through. It was the comparing to baptism and comfirmation that did it.

Baptism and Confirmation and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

Roman Catholic Christians look to the teaching authority of the Church as the sure guide to belief on matters of faith and morals. The latest teaching Council of the Church was Vatican Council II.

The Church emphasizes that a person becomes a Christian and first receives the Holy Spirit through faith and Baptism.

Paul’s teaching implies that the Holy Spirit is normally first given or conferred to individuals through belief and water baptism.

The Apostles in the Acts of the Apostles appear to have understood the difference between the presence of the Holy Spirit in Baptism and in a later empowering. If a person were only baptized and did not receive the fullness of the Holy Spirit, the Apostles would pray and lay their hands on them, begging God to send his Holy Spirit in greater measure. Acts 8:14-18 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who went down and prayed for them, that they might receive the holy Spirit, for it had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them and they received the holy Spirit. When Simon saw that the Spirit was conferred by the laying on of the apostles’ hands …

The Catholic Christian sacrament of Confirmation originates with this practice.

Water Baptism is not the only time or way that the Holy Spirit comes to live in a person; but the New Testament indicates the importance of being baptized into Christ and thus being sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Roman Catholic Christians believe that they are first born again of water and the Holy Spirit when they receive the sacrament of Baptism. Catholic Christians also believe that Baptism only begins the work of mission of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer.

The person who is truly “born again” and “Spirit-filled” is not necessarily the one who has had an extraordinary experience of the Holy Spirit at some point (though this is a blessing), but the person who lives and “walks” with the Holy Spirit; who has put to death the “works of the flesh” and manifests the “fruits of the Spirit.” This is what it means to be a “new creation” in Christ Jesus - “the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come” (2 Cor 5:17)

Much today is heard of being “baptized in the Spirit.” The expression comes from Sacred Scripture. Mt 3:11 He (Jesus) will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire. Mk 1:8 I (John) have baptized you with water; he (Jesus) will baptize you with the holy Spirit. Lk 3:16 He (Jesus) will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire. Jn 1:33 On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain, he is the one who will baptize with the holy Spirit.

**The Roman Catholic Church has never claimed that the work of the Holy Spirit is limited exclusively to Baptism. **

**Confirmation is the Catholic Church’s official prayer for the Holy Spirit to empower a person to spread the gospel, to live a fervent Christian life, and share more fully in the mission and ministry of the Church. **

**Receiving the Holy Spirit in a new way, usually as the result of earnest, expectant prayer, is what many Christians today call being “baptized in the Holy Spirit.” ****Being “baptized in the Holy Spirit” is actually a “release” or a “coming to consciousness” of the power of the Holy Spirit who already has been given to the believer through the sacraments of the Church.
**
God Bless,
Maria
 
I have a question. Is it typical in the Renewal to speak so openly . . . almost casually . . . about one’s spiritual gifts? As an outside observer I can’t help but think this does a disservice to your cause.

Forgive me if I’m mis-reading things and please know I ask this sincerely . . . I’m just trying to understand all of this.
 
Yes, there does seem to be a fine line between giving a witness (telling what God has done for you) and bragging, but we are called to give testimony for the uplifting of our community
Mt5:
15(A)nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
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DBT:
I have a question. Is it typical in the Renewal to speak so openly . . . almost casually . . . about one’s spiritual gifts? As an outside observer I can’t help but think this does a disservice to your cause.

Forgive me if I’m mis-reading things and please know I ask this sincerely . . . I’m just trying to understand all of this.
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What a great question.
It is very typical in the Renewal to speak so openly and yes, casually about our Spiritual gifts.
You see, we did nothing whatsoever to earn them, we surely do not deserve them and it doesn’t make us one bit special as people.
It is all a God thing. We are thanking and Praising the Holy Spirit for all He does for us.
If you were to go to a Charismatic Prayer meeting, you would hear us singing and praying thanksgiving and Praises just as openly to our Lord.

Thank you for asking this special question. That is what these threads are all about.
 
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Mysty101:
Yes, there does seem to be a fine line between giving a witness (telling what God has done for you) and bragging
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Hi Mysty -

No, bragging isn’t really the point I was trying to make 🙂

I guess I’m more from the point of view that witness is best communicated by the example of our lives, not the things we say about ourselves. If prayer is the consuming fire that fuels our every thought and action, then the entire concept of “self” is best left hidden and behind the scenes.

I think this is the reason why threads like this often spiral out of control. I think people can intuitively sense when the focus is taken off God and placed on self. This, to me, is the “fine line” which you speak and is a risk one takes when talking about personal experiences in prayer. Just my opinion.

Having said that, I do think everyone here is sincere and trying to be helpful. And maybe this is just another example of the rich tapestry of our faith and how we’re all called in different ways.
 
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robertaf:
What a great question.
It is very typical in the Renewal to speak so openly and yes, casually about our Spiritual gifts.
You see, we did nothing whatsoever to earn them, we surely do not deserve them and it doesn’t make us one bit special as people.
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Hi Robertaf -

Thanks for your response. Yes I agree that spiritual gifts aren’t, in themselves, a sign of our worthiness or holiness. Maybe they are given because we are sinners and in need of purification 🙂

So if speaking so openly is the norm, how does the Renewal reconcile itself to those traditions within the Church that would frown on such discussions . . . maybe even view it as a sign of the in-authenticity of the prayer? I guess what I’m driving at is the whole issue of humility. (See my post to Mysty)

The Saints I’ve been exposed to were very reticent about such things and would only talk about “personal experiences” when told to do so by a superior. They wrote strictly out of an act of obedience. This tradition seems to be at odds with what I’m seeing in the Renewal.

Again, I ask this in the spirit of learning.
 
Greetings Church

It appears there was a temporary glitch in the system.

Thanks to whoever fixed it.

We seem to be up and running again.
 
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