Catholic democrats?

[dbrown]

Brad:

You are not with us on stopping abortion if you vote for candidates that vote for funding and legalization of abortion on demand. This makes you a supporter of abortion, not an opponent.

How do you know I support abortion? I didnt vote for kerry. I DO NOT support abortion. Just because I dont support the republican agenda does not mean I support abortion. presumtion is a sin so is accusing your neighbor falsely I really do not appreciate how you presume to know my religious views over this short thread that is posted here. I follow all church teachings. We were not mandated to vote either way in the last election. Nor was it a sin for someone to vote for kerry. Or Bush for that matter. I fully Believe in our Church’s teaching All of it, there’s a lot more to that teaching than the fact that abortion is wrong. I’m a good standing Catholic in my local parish. I’m even about to join the KOC which i’m really excited about. I have not slamed anyone on this thread I’ve just made some personal points about the issues at large. Not attacked any individual on this site. I hope we can agree that all the churches teachings are important, not just one. I will pray for you all and keep you in my prayers as well as myself. I love you all. God bless and peace be with you all.

 

[dbrown]

Tyler Smedley:

Where are you getting this? He gassed his own people with nerve gas…you offer these random statements like this and make no sense, offer proof, articles facts not random stuff…

This is giving me a headache… read yor history saddam aquired his weapons at that time from the reagan presidency. Its fact not opinion.

 

[fix]

dbrown:

How do you know I support abortion? I didnt vote for kerry. I DO NOT support abortion. Just because I dont support the republican agenda does not mean I support abortion. presumtion is a sin so is accusing your neighbor falsely I really do not appreciate how you presume to know my religious views over this short thread that is posted here. I follow all church teachings. We were not mandated to vote either way in the last election. Nor was it a sin for someone to vote for kerry. Or Bush for that matter. I fully Believe in our Church’s teaching All of it, there’s a lot more to that teaching than the fact that abortion is wrong. I’m a good standing Catholic in my local parish. I’m even about to join the KOC which i’m really excited about. I have not slamed anyone on this thread I’ve just made some personal points about the issues at large. Not attacked any individual on this site. I hope we can agree that all the churches teachings are important, not just one. I will pray for you all and keep you in my prayers as well as myself. I love you all. God bless and peace be with you all.

The Church teaches that not ALL issues are equal.

 

[dbrown]

fix:

The Church teaches that not ALL issues are equal.

This is true but they are all important. Does anyone here have anything nice to say to one another.

 

[fix]

dbrown:

This is true but they are all important. Does anyone here have anything nice to say to one another.

The truth is “nice”. Being important is not in question. Voting is the issue in this thread, right?
Life issues trump all other issues. As Catholics we must keep that in mind when choosing our elected officials.

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

And Abortion is the top of the life issues due to is impact…

 

[wabrams]

vern humphrey:

President Nixon signed an executive order to destroy all our chemical weapons. We are also signatories to treaties banning chemical weapons.

While the United States Army has protective equipment, decontamination equipment, and so on, we have no offensive chemical weapons.

Some weapons developed in the early '50s are still awaiting destruction – the environmental lawsuits have taken decades, and the facilities for destruction are limited.

But we couldn’t actually launch a single chemical warhead right now.

I knew about the order from Nixon, but I’ve got three close friends who have been to NBC school anywhere from the late 80’s to 1997 and all three said we’ve the chemical weapons to use today if we had too. Plus the US Army lab in Maryland is always developing new bio weapons.

 

[dbrown]

fix:

The truth is “nice”. Being important is not in question. Voting is the issue in this thread, right?
Life issues trump all other issues. As Catholics we must keep that in mind when choosing our elected officials.

And the “truth” is all of what the Church teaches. Not one issue. Im done on this particular thread it’s going no where. I will remember to stay out of posts like this one in the future and go on ones where I might actually help someone or clarify something. I feel much hate in some of these posts. try to spread a little love it goes a long way…

 

[vern_humphrey]

No Catholic can say “all sins are of equal weight” and remain true to Catholic teaching.

Being for labor unions does not cancel out the death of 4,000 children a day. Being opposed to a tax cut is not something that justifies supporting a politician who votes against limiting something as ghastly as partial-birth abortion

 

[vern_humphrey]

wabrams:

I knew about the order from Nixon, but I’ve got three close friends who have been to NBC school anywhere from the late 80’s to 1997 and all three said we’ve the chemical weapons to use today if we had too. Plus the US Army lab in Maryland is always developing new bio weapons.

And I’ve been to the Chemical Center and School, too – in fact, I worked a project to develop tactics and techniques for fighting in a chemical and biological environment in the late '90s.

We have some old, leaky (and VERY dangerous) rockets awaiting disposal – but no launchers to shoot them from, no means of transporting them to a lanuch site, and so on. We couldn’t fire a single one if we had to.

The labs at Fort Deitrick work on biological issues – including research for the Center for Disease Control. They do not develop “new bio weapons.”

If you say they do, please identify the weapon in question. What is the biological agent? How is it transported? How would it be delivered to a target?

 

[dbrown]

vern humphrey:

No Catholic can say “all sins are of equal weight” and remain true to Catholic teaching.

Being for labor unions does not cancel out the death of 4,000 children a day. Being opposed to a tax cut is not something that justifies supporting a politician who votes against limiting something as ghastly as partial-birth abortion

Where did I say all sins are equal. I said all issues are important some more important than others, but they are all important.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Hello dbrown;

I think that if you are a good Catholic Democrat you should be supporting fellow democrats ONLY if they are working to rid their party of those supporting anti-life policies like abortion.

If you did not vote for Kerry because you could not support a pro-abortion candidate, then if you ever want to vote democratic again in a presidential election, you’re going to have to change your party’s abortion on demand platform. You have your work cut out for you because democrats continue to chose the “Pro-Choice” position as a major pillar of their political agenda, if not THE major issue.

IMHO, Catholic Democrats need to get the beam out of their own eye before they point to the splinters in the eyes of the Catholic Republicans. I say this with full recognition that Bush was far from the ideal candidate in the last election. But he was a far cry better than Kerry only because of his position on key Catholic issues, setting aside the war in Iraq.

One other question. Were you for or against the war in Afghanistan? Because in general democrats were heavily in favor of removing the Taliban from power even without direct proof of Taliban involvement in 9/11. (Although the Taliban did harbor UBL after the fact). Perhaps Democrats could get behind that war because it liberated the Afghanistan citizens from a regime that brutally repressed women and trampled human rights, thus the war was more easily defined as “just” because it was close to being “politically correct?”? Was Sadaam somehow better than the Taliban only because he persecuted men and women equally, and did not make women wear head-to-toe burkhas?

It always seems that the bottom line attack by democrats amounts to nothing but a visceral hatred of President Bush. I have yet to hear a cogently argued justification by Catholic Democrats for the favorable position the NDC takes on key issues that all Catholics are morally obligated to oppose - abortion, euthenasia, etcetera. IMHO it must be because of my first observation - i.e. there is no Catholic justification for the Democratic platform. The only proper response is for Catholic Democrats to return the Democratic Party to the ideals that it espoused prior to the 1960s. Catholic Democrats - Take your party back! Please!

Peace and Charity,

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

dbrown:

And the “truth” is all of what the Church teaches. Not one issue. Im done on this particular thread it’s going no where. I will remember to stay out of posts like this one in the future and go on ones where I might actually help someone or clarify something. I feel much hate in some of these posts. try to spread a little love it goes a long way…

Remember that you started this post with an inflamitory statement and now you are trying to look like a peacemaker…not going to work . Sometimes it take a lot of humility to accept that you are wrong and move on.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

All issues are important. Some are more important. You apparently feel that “social justice” is more important than “abortion”.

I personally feel that abortion IS a matter of social justice–of justice for the innocent unborn and for their parents as well.

If we don’t pay attention to the weakest of us before birth, why would we pay attention AFTER birth?

Abortion is the most important human rights issue there is.

 

[wabrams]

vern humphrey:

And I’ve been to the Chemical Center and School, too – in fact, I worked a project to develop tactics and techniques for fighting in a chemical and biological environment in the late '90s.

We have some old, leaky (and VERY dangerous) rockets awaiting disposal – but no launchers to shoot them from, no means of transporting them to a lanuch site, and so on. We couldn’t fire a single one if we had to.

The labs at Fort Deitrick work on biological issues – including research for the Center for Disease Control. They do not develop “new bio weapons.”

If you say they do, please identify the weapon in question. What is the biological agent? How is it transported? How would it be delivered to a target?

I haven’t a clue as to what the weapon systems are; I’m not an NBC soldier. I based my statements from conversations from 3 former/current NBC soldiers who’s statements differ greatly from yours. I know the majority of Ft. Deiterick’s work is on biological weapons, and I do know they develop new weapons.

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

Tantum ergo:

If we don’t pay attention to the weakest of us before birth, why would we pay attention AFTER birth?

Abortion is the most important human rights issue there is.

So True! I agree 100%

 

[Ani_Ibi]

dbrown:

I’m not condeming the war. I just think that there is no difference in the SLAUGHTER of innocence pregnant women. And a women who commits abortion. The right to live is alawys important. By the way the college of Bishops believe that in our day in time it is near impossible to meet the criteria for the just war doctrine. And don’t misunderstand me. The right to live is VERY important, But so are other very critical issue’s that the Republican party does not uphold that represents our faith. The Church is to always align it’s self with the poor, and the ones who feel helpless. One more thing numbers are really not that important one murder is to many and one abortion is to many. Not all democrats condone our support abortion, and I will love the day when they turn away from that possition and trust it will happen sooner or later. I refuse to be a single issue voter. Remember Catholics were split 50 50 in the last election and in the 40’s 50’s and 60’s almost all Catholics were Democrat. I personally consider myself independent but I’m just facinated at how many people think bush is this great moral leader. Because his policy sure dosent show it.

Peace be with you all.

Kerry is Catholic. Bush is not. Kerry, as a Catholic, had to be held to account by Catholics for his public stance against The Church.

The Just War is a red herring.

 

[Brad]

dbrown:

How do you know I support abortion? I didnt vote for kerry. I DO NOT support abortion. Just because I dont support the republican agenda does not mean I support abortion. presumtion is a sin so is accusing your neighbor falsely I really do not appreciate how you presume to know my religious views over this short thread that is posted here. I follow all church teachings. We were not mandated to vote either way in the last election. Nor was it a sin for someone to vote for kerry. Or Bush for that matter. I fully Believe in our Church’s teaching All of it, there’s a lot more to that teaching than the fact that abortion is wrong. I’m a good standing Catholic in my local parish. I’m even about to join the KOC which i’m really excited about. I have not slamed anyone on this thread I’ve just made some personal points about the issues at large. Not attacked any individual on this site. I hope we can agree that all the churches teachings are important, not just one. I will pray for you all and keep you in my prayers as well as myself. I love you all. God bless and peace be with you all.

I didn’t say you did support abortion. I said that if you voted for a candidate that votes for funding and legalization and promotion of abortions, then you support abortion. Your posts here certainly imply that you vote for such candidates. If you do not, that is great, but then I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here.

You said you didn’t vote for Kerry. Immediatiely after, you said it would be ok to vote for Kerry. I say anyone that voted for Kerry supports abortion unless they were unaware of his consistent voting record for funding, promoting, and legalizaing abortion. If voting for someone means supporting the killing of babies then it is not ok to vote for that person.

I’m not “attacking” anyone either. Just stating reality. I’m glad that you are in the Church and that you accept Her teachings. It is the right way to go. Christ will never steer you wrong.

 

[dbrown]

Robert in SD:

Hello dbrown;

I think that if you are a good Catholic Democrat you should be supporting fellow democrats ONLY if they are working to rid their party of those supporting anti-life policies like abortion.

If you did not vote for Kerry because you could not support a pro-abortion candidate, then if you ever want to vote democratic again in a presidential election, you’re going to have to change your party’s abortion on demand platform. You have your work cut out for you because democrats continue to chose the “Pro-Choice” position as a major pillar of their political agenda, if not THE major issue.

IMHO, Catholic Democrats need to get the beam out of their own eye before they point to the splinters in the eyes of the Catholic Republicans. I say this with full recognition that Bush was far from the ideal candidate in the last election. But he was a far cry better than Kerry only because of his position on key Catholic issues, setting aside the war in Iraq.

One other question. Were you for or against the war in Afghanistan? Because in general democrats were heavily in favor of removing the Taliban from power even without direct proof of Taliban involvement in 9/11. (Although the Taliban did harbor UBL after the fact). Perhaps Democrats could get behind that war because it liberated the Afghanistan citizens from a regime that brutally repressed women and trampled human rights, thus the war was more easily defined as “just” because it was close to being “politically correct?”? Was Sadaam somehow better than the Taliban only because he persecuted men and women equally, and did not make women wear head-to-toe burkhas?

It always seems that the bottom line attack by democrats amounts to nothing but a visceral hatred of President Bush. I have yet to hear a cogently argued justification by Catholic Democrats for the favorable position the NDC takes on key issues that all Catholics are morally obligated to oppose - abortion, euthenasia, etcetera. IMHO it must be because of my first observation - i.e. there is no Catholic justification for the Democratic platform. The only proper response is for Catholic Democrats to return the Democratic Party to the ideals that it espoused prior to the 1960s. Catholic Democrats - Take your party back! Please!

Peace and Charity,

Very, Very good points. I would love to see the democrats turn away from their abortion/gay agenda. I really appreciate your kindness in your statements. I did not support the afgaghn war. I don not condone war period. And I Know I sound like a quaker or something but thats my position. I don’t hate Bush I hate most of his policies. theres a big difference. I’ve heard he’s a great man, but even at that it doesn’t mean I have to agree with him. Thank you again for your kindness.

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

Brad:

I
You said you didn’t vote for Kerry. Immediatiely after, you said it would be ok to vote for Kerry. I say anyone that voted for Kerry supports abortion unless they were unaware of his consistent voting record for funding, promoting, and legalizaing abortion. If voting for someone means supporting the killing of babies then it is not ok to vote for that person.

Does anyone know where we can find the ways to participate in the sin of another…we need a link…