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vern_humphrey
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Nice dodge, but the question addresses the morality of the act, not it’s legality.
Are you saying it’s impossible to hire someone in the United States?
That no employer knows what wage to offer – and hence no one has a job?
Exactly – you’ve been running from the actual answers to three simple questions for a dozen posts now.
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meeshy
Guest
Texas, don’t give credence to anyone who says you don’t answer properly or you haven’t answered the moral question, etc., etc.
These are just word games intended to irritate, nothing more. I’ve been through it, too. Very annoying.
Peace,
Meeshy
These are just word games intended to irritate, nothing more. I’ve been through it, too. Very annoying.
Peace,
Meeshy
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Vaclav
Guest
What public services?
We offer no public services to illegal immigrants save one: emergency room care. That is it. The fact that this is a costly service and the only access for undocumented workers to healthcare (and also for quite a few poor citizens as well) says more about our healthcare system than it does anything else.
Illegal immigrants cannot gain access to TANF benefits, what little benefits TANF offers. They cannot gain access to Medicare, Medicaid, or Disability. The rate of fraud (according to the HHS the fraud and error rate was 6.8% in FY 2000) of each of those disbursements is relatively low and of that fraud, the percentage committed by undocumented workers is likely to be remarkably low.
Undocumented workers cannot even be passengers aboard an airplane.
These stereotypes of illegal immigrants as ruthless criminals or leeches off of society are based upon faulty logic.
No offense, but the Heritage Foundation is not a good place to gain respectable information, unless you simply wish to present a biased view.
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Verisimilitude
Guest
This unanswerred question(s) was to you. Yes or No.
This further question(s) was to Texas. He sidestepped your question by insinuating there is no need to be labled as illegal or undocumented.
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Verisimilitude
Guest
What about public education?
Clearing the roadways of snow?
The use of public roadways?
Jails and prisons to protect the general public from criminals?
Public utilities: power, water…?
Police, Fire, and Rescue services?
There are many public services that are publicly funded and resource limited.
I am not suggesting anyone be turned away at the hospital or at the elementary school, but the border. I am not suggesting the Fire or Police Departments first check for citizenship before helping anyone, but that citizenship and legality be required to be here in the first place. Due to the number of illegals in prison, new prisons are required and new prisons are tax payer funded.
With a valid ID (US drivers liscense) gained by false supporting documents, many do just that. This is how they buy vehicles, rent/buy housing, and travel. In most cases, they are not who they say they are and that is a security problem.
Never said all undocumetned foreign nationals are ruthless criminals, but the sad fact is all undocumented foreign nationals have broken the law and thus are criminals. Excusing them by claiming the current laws are unjust us faulty logic.
It isn’t a matter of being a leech to society as much as legal society has a reasonable expectation that the finite public funded resources as those noted above are used for the legal citizens of the nation, and not every human capable of sneaking into the country.
Do I not have the right to know with reasonable assurance that the people living next to me, driving on the highway with me, going to school with my children…are bound by the same requirments of civic duty and responsibility that I am?
Am I wrong to feel that a two-tier justice system is unjust to me and every other legal resident/citizen when a undocumented illegal can just get another false ID and go about his merry way?
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meeshy
Guest
Excellent.
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meeshy
Guest
No, Veri, I was not referring to your post. Texas knows what I’m referring to.
Peace,
Meeshy
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meeshy
Guest
Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.
Public services are often brought to us by illegal workers, Veri, in case you didn’t know. Bridge, road, and sewer construction are jobs which are held by many, many illegals.
Sales taxes, road tolls, and property taxes all go to fund public services. You must admit that everyone in America pays sales tax. You also must admit that a good majority of those living in America pay property tax. And don’t forget about lotteries, as I mentioned in a previous post.
Illegals cannot get valid U.S. driver’s licenses because they must present some form of visa or work permit. Those documents are pretty tough to falsify, and as I have said a thousand times, fake ones cost mucho dinero. You seem to think this type of forgery “service” is available to every illegal immigrant. That’s silly. Of the many illegals I know who drive, no one has a fake license. Not one. It’s just too hard to fake. They drive without licenses. So do many U.S. citizens.
As far as knowing if our neighbors have the same sense of civil duty and responsibility as we do… WHAT!!! You mean to say that because someone is a citizen you automatically believe that they are dutiful, responsible, and law-abiding? WHAT!!! Oh Veri, Veri, Veri… would that it were so…
Peace,
Meeshy
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Verisimilitude
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meeshy
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Tracyms1974
Guest
There are a lot of folks here that I agree with. Immigration needs to be fixed and fast. However, let me play devil’s advocate for a minute and throw this question out there: Do you think the fact that most people from Mexico are Catholic has anything to do with the US Bishops’ overwhelming support for them? Think about it. If all these people were Buddhist, or some other religion, would these same bishops be working as hard to meet their bodily needs? I would like to think they would. But hey, don’t think I haven’t considered the benefit of suddenly increasing our Church numbers as a whole by the hundred-thousands. Those who are so hostile to these immigrants may want to consider the same thing. I have to go.
Tracy
Tracy
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meeshy
Guest
Just wanted to show you this BBC article from 1998 about green cards.
BBC article
In 1998, according to the article, a fake green card cost $15,000.
When the U.S. government implemented the anti-forgery improvements to the cards, I’m sure the cost of buying a fake card increased significantly.
Now, with all of you who say the majority of illegals work for sub-standard wages, how do you suppose they purchase these fake cards?
Answer: they don’t. Fake green cards, fake driver’s licenses, fake passports, and other false documents are used only by a small percentage of illegals in this country. As soon as I have the time to find some government statistics on this matter, I’ll share them with you.
For now I can tell you that in July 2006 the USCIS conducted a fraud investigation on a small percentage of replacement green card applications. Of the 245 cases investigated, it was found that only 1% were fraudulant. A small investigation, granted, but the results are telling. Here is the info: Fraud
Peace,
Meeshy
BBC article
In 1998, according to the article, a fake green card cost $15,000.
When the U.S. government implemented the anti-forgery improvements to the cards, I’m sure the cost of buying a fake card increased significantly.
Now, with all of you who say the majority of illegals work for sub-standard wages, how do you suppose they purchase these fake cards?
Answer: they don’t. Fake green cards, fake driver’s licenses, fake passports, and other false documents are used only by a small percentage of illegals in this country. As soon as I have the time to find some government statistics on this matter, I’ll share them with you.
For now I can tell you that in July 2006 the USCIS conducted a fraud investigation on a small percentage of replacement green card applications. Of the 245 cases investigated, it was found that only 1% were fraudulant. A small investigation, granted, but the results are telling. Here is the info: Fraud
Peace,
Meeshy
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Sheeniac
Guest
What hurts me is seeing say we have to support the US Bishops on a position. We are required as Catholics to believe and support the Church on only a few “political” matters - abortion, etc. Immigration, the war, death penalty, etc, we are allowed to have our own opinions even if they contradict the Pope’s. There is nothing dogmatic about the stance on illegal immigrants and what should happen other than they should be treated with respect and not taken advantage of…I agree.
Peace,
Meeshy
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johnstown_johnn
Guest
A society, in order to continue, must protect its borders. Not to do so decimates its continuity and eventually ceases being what it was.
Legal immigration is an orderly, portioned out program. If it is no longer adhered to the nation becomes a strange land to its sons and daughters.
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TheGoodLife
Guest
I cannot in my heart justify these illegal aliens coming into the United States. And it sickens me when our church flyer contains material from the local Archidoece supporting the illegals and asking us to turn to certain politicians because they vote in favor of this illegal aliens.
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
The Catholic Bishops will not change their tune, the non Catholic Bishops might. The issue is not skin color, language, etc., the issue is treating your brother as your brother. If a murder is intruding you are allowed to treat him as a murder, you may treat a thief as a thief, etc ect which means the worker should be treated as a worker, the father as a father, the family as a family.There are a lot of folks here that I agree with. Immigration needs to be fixed and fast. However, let me play devil’s advocate for a minute and throw this question out there: Do you think the fact that most people from Mexico are Catholic has anything to do with the US Bishops’ overwhelming support for them? Think about it. If all these people were Buddhist, or some other religion, would these same bishops be working as hard to meet their bodily needs? I would like to think they would. But hey, don’t think I haven’t considered the benefit of suddenly increasing our Church numbers as a whole by the hundred-thousands. Those who are so hostile to these immigrants may want to consider the same thing. I have to go.
Tracy
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Ender
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Positions on this issue are pretty well entrenched and I suspect very few people change their minds based on the arguments provided here, unless they were ambivalent to begin with. Those of us who oppose illegal immigration would be well advised to spend some effort making sure our politicians both local and national know where we stand on the issue. The one thing you can expect of most politicians is that they will act in what they perceive to be their best interest. We need to demonstrate that’s what is our interest is where their interests also lie.
Ender
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
Maybe you could explain to the Archbishop what Jesus would do. When he understands how Jesus would handle it he’ll understand you. BTW would you explain it to me also.
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johnstown_johnn
Guest
You have to admit that the illegal immigrant protests are waving Mexico flags. That is why mexicans/illegals are synonymous.
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