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Pius_X
Guest
Yes, but we wouldn’t want anyone to be “distracted” by a cute face, now would we?Not burqas, albs! Albs are appropriate for all baptized Christians. (I wouldn’t be opposed to that idea).
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Mystic_of_God
Guest
This is a pointless endeavor. Don’t bother, they will leave anyway.
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ChristianVet
Guest
When we think about WHY we attend Mass on Sunday we should consider the follow Scripture:
"I am the living bread which has come down from heaven.
Anyone who eats this bread will live for ever;
and the bread that I shall give
is my flesh, for the life of the world.
Then the Jews started arguing with one another: ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’ they said. Jesus replied:
I tell you solemnly,
if you do not eat the flesh of the Son of Man
and drink his blood,
you will not have life in you.
Anyone who does eat my flesh and drink my blood
has eternal life,
and I shall raise him up on the last day.
For my flesh is real food
and my blood is real drink.
He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood
lives in me
and I live in him.
As I, who am sent by the living Father,
myself draw life from the Father,
so whoever eats me will draw life from me.
This is the bread come down from heaven;
not like the bread our ancestors ate:
they are dead,
but anyone who eats this bread will live for ever.
He taught this doctrine at Capernaum, in the synagogue. After hearing it, many of this followers said, 'This is intolerable language. How could anyone accept it?" Jesus was aware that his followers were complaining about it and said, "Does this upset you? What if you should see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before?
It is the spirit that gives life,
the flesh has nothing to offer.
The words I have spoken to you are spirit
and they are life.
But there are some of you who do not believe.
***For Jesus knew from the outset those who did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. He went on,
*** ’This is why I told you that no one could come to me unless the Father allows him.
After this, many of his disciples left and stopped going with him.
John 6:51-71
"I am the living bread which has come down from heaven.
Anyone who eats this bread will live for ever;
and the bread that I shall give
is my flesh, for the life of the world.
Then the Jews started arguing with one another: ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’ they said. Jesus replied:
I tell you solemnly,
if you do not eat the flesh of the Son of Man
and drink his blood,
you will not have life in you.
Anyone who does eat my flesh and drink my blood
has eternal life,
and I shall raise him up on the last day.
For my flesh is real food
and my blood is real drink.
He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood
lives in me
and I live in him.
As I, who am sent by the living Father,
myself draw life from the Father,
so whoever eats me will draw life from me.
This is the bread come down from heaven;
not like the bread our ancestors ate:
they are dead,
but anyone who eats this bread will live for ever.
He taught this doctrine at Capernaum, in the synagogue. After hearing it, many of this followers said, 'This is intolerable language. How could anyone accept it?" Jesus was aware that his followers were complaining about it and said, "Does this upset you? What if you should see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before?
It is the spirit that gives life,
the flesh has nothing to offer.
The words I have spoken to you are spirit
and they are life.
But there are some of you who do not believe.
***For Jesus knew from the outset those who did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. He went on,
*** ’This is why I told you that no one could come to me unless the Father allows him.
After this, many of his disciples left and stopped going with him.
John 6:51-71
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Mijoy2
Guest
The body and blood and of thier creator is insufficient?
I don’t mean to be condecending, entertainment is not why we are there. Anyone who would suggest the church needs to be more entertaining is completely missing the point of the sacrifice of the mass.
I agree, the church needs to “let the people” choose between folk songs, loud preachers voicing thier interpretaions of the Gospel, or our Lords body blood soul and divinity.
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KathleenElsie
Guest
This I agree with. But, clappy, happy, music is not the way to achieve salvation.
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rlg94086
Guest
So, if you were invited to a wedding of a friend, would you also believe he was happy you were there in shorts, a t-shirt, and flip-flops? It’s a matter of appropriate dress, not whether Jesus is looking down on you (He is, of course…from Heaven
). If you had a meeting with someone of importance (e.g. president, congressman, job interview for a high salary, etc.), I would hope you would dress appropriately. You don’t think meeting with Jesus is less important do you?
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Bennie_P
Guest
If you dig deeper, you will find that the reason that Catholics that leave the Church has to do with more then just music, It is they either, one - they don’t have an understanding of the Church teachings and never had a conversion experience, or two - there is something they reject about Church teaching that they refuse to adhere to, such as the Church’s teachings on abortion, divorce, the priesthood, Church Authority, etc. Or both. People don’t leave the Church just because of the music.
po18guy
Well-known member
First, I am convinced that many Catholics who leave did not comprehend the Eucharist. The truth, beauty and strength that it contains will keep me here regardless. Other churches constantly preach about a “personal relationship” with Christ. What on earth could be more personal than eating His Body and drinking His Blood? NOTHING!
Second, I am convinced that many who leave did not participate in the Sacrament of reconcilliation. Some probably refuse to conform to church teaching (living together, contraception, abortion) and the truth is very uncomfortable for them to face. God’s mercy is just waiting for them, but they reject it and prefer to join a less demanding faith. “Less” is the operative word here.
The spiritual benefits that are provided by these two Sacraments are unparalleled by any religion. If only…
The peace of Christ to all.
Second, I am convinced that many who leave did not participate in the Sacrament of reconcilliation. Some probably refuse to conform to church teaching (living together, contraception, abortion) and the truth is very uncomfortable for them to face. God’s mercy is just waiting for them, but they reject it and prefer to join a less demanding faith. “Less” is the operative word here.
The spiritual benefits that are provided by these two Sacraments are unparalleled by any religion. If only…
The peace of Christ to all.
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robtax
Guest
Whoever said that catechesis was the problem was exactly right! When you have adults that do not know their faith then you have kids who don’t know theirs either. What I think a lot of parishes need to acknowledge is that they are failing to reach out to those who do not know the faith. So many times you see programs offered by parishes that are attended by the same folks time and time again. I recently heard a statistic that only about 25% of parishes are active in their faith. And the programs offered by the parish cater to that same 25%.
You know I attended a protestant church for years when I was a teen. I went to mass as well but I was one of those that didn’t know what was going on, despite the fact that I went to CCD every year etc. I met several Godly people in the protestant church I attended, learned how to get around in the bible and learned to enjoy my Christian faith. While I do believe that the Catholic Church is the true church, I cannot say that the spirit isn’t working in the protestant churches. I don’t think anyone can say that.
While I do belive that the mass should be and remain sacred, that doesn’t mean we can’t do a better job at other things. I think its the responsibility of all the lay people to help their parish become as vibrant as possible so people won’t leave seeking something else. Those who leave are obviously hungry and need to be fed. We need to get better at providing that food.
You know I attended a protestant church for years when I was a teen. I went to mass as well but I was one of those that didn’t know what was going on, despite the fact that I went to CCD every year etc. I met several Godly people in the protestant church I attended, learned how to get around in the bible and learned to enjoy my Christian faith. While I do believe that the Catholic Church is the true church, I cannot say that the spirit isn’t working in the protestant churches. I don’t think anyone can say that.
While I do belive that the mass should be and remain sacred, that doesn’t mean we can’t do a better job at other things. I think its the responsibility of all the lay people to help their parish become as vibrant as possible so people won’t leave seeking something else. Those who leave are obviously hungry and need to be fed. We need to get better at providing that food.
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nilofc
Guest
Anybody can be distracted by anything. You maybe distracted with a coat and tie, which I think will not lead you to a much more grave sin than a person being distracted because he saw somebody wearing a backless neck plunging shirt which says “Sexy Me”.
The things is, we define decency as the quality of being polite and respectable. Now if you still insist that you’d come to mass with your beach attire, then by all means, do so. Nobody will force you to prepare and present yourself formally to the Lord. It’s your decision.
And by the way, who says we need to wear a suit and a tie? If you want to, you can, all we’re asking is to be decent but if you don’t agree, then go ahead. Have fun. Bring a beach ball inside the mass.
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Mimi
Guest
Amen!! This is what Fr. Riccardo says in the DVD Common Ground (available through Nineveh’s Crossing web site.
He said a woman came to his door once and asked him if he had a personal relationship with Jesus. He replied, “I put Him in my mouth every morning!” She left and didn’t come back!
We need to hear this from the pulpit, and more than once a yr!
Pray that God will move the hearts of nominal Catholics to be ‘on fire’!
Peace,
Mimi
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Sheeniac
Guest
I have a suggestion for you. I experience some of the same problems - before Mass starts I take a look at the copyright info on the songs. Generally, if it’s 20th century, I tend not to like it.
But they persist in singing those dreadful songs.
I offer it up to the Lord and pray instead of singing. Or sometimes I sing and offer that up to the Lord.
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Pius_X
Guest
I thought we should care deeply for our sisters and brothers?
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Pius_X
Guest
Of course it is sufficient, but then why do we need any music at all? Why don’t we just have silent masses? Also, why do we use incense and vestments. These are not necessary either.
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Pius_X
Guest
I have a friendship with Jesus- one I do not have with the President. I am comfortable around my friends. Of course, he is also God and the Son of God, so I do worship him, however, these are entirely different circumstances than a job interview- the Eucharist is on a far different level than a job interview.So, if you were invited to a wedding of a friend, would you also believe he was happy you were there in shorts, a t-shirt, and flip-flops? It’s a matter of appropriate dress, not whether Jesus is looking down on you (He is, of course…from Heaven
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Pius_X
Guest
I fail to see how wearing shorts was not polite. Simply because YOU would not wear them does not mean that it is somehow rude to wear shorts to church.
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BrownR
Guest
One thing I love about the Catholic mass is the polyvalent symbology. The almost limitless opportunities for personal or divine reflection. If you aren’t getting anything out of the mass, then buy a book that explains all the symbology and gives you more food for thought as you go through the rubrics and motions. I grew up Protestant and the evangelical movement in particular thrives on what I like to call an “emotional high” during the services. They use music, dance and words to synthesize an emotional experience that church goers construe as the work of the “Holy Spirit”. It’s very much like a motivational event. They associate the “high” with the “Holy Spirit” and are constantly turned inward, examining and ruminating on how they “feel” that day. i.e. “I don’t feel close to God today, what am I doing wrong?” or “Oh, I feel so close to God in this Church while we sing and dance!” It sets them up for a life long roller coaster ride of depths and peaks in their spiritual lives. Some days they feel close to God, and others they don’t because their spiritual lives are intertwined with their emotional experiences. I’ve given this a lot of thought and don’t want to get off on a tangent but suffice to say, I much prefer the Catholic approach to worship. I don’t have to worry about how I feel in a Catholic mass. I know Christ is present in the Eucharist. The symbology of the mass is beautiful and gives me limitless opportunities to examine myself and worship internally and externally. The mass shouldn’t ever be about the laity “having fun” in my opinion. Isn’t the mass a sacrificial event? I say keep it solemn and leave the drums and tambourines at home.
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rwoehmke
Guest
Absolutely true. The old hymns and music were and still are quite beautiful and moving. Some of the later stuff is in my opinion also quite good, but maybe has a different tempo or whatever. However it seems that our Music Minister insists on picking some of the worst stuff available and then plays it at a tempo even slower than a lot of the old stuff.
Another point I would make is that yes we go to Mass to worship God, because if we don’t we will not get what we need out of it. It is important to realize that it is not either or, but both and. God has made us as creatures that need to worship him, not because He needs the worship, but because we need it to be fully human. If one is getting nothing out of Mass it is a waste of time and going through the motions. The Jews were told more than once that God did not want their sacrifices, He wanted their hearts; their love. Just showing up and setting like a lump in the pew each Sunday doesn’t cut it. The act of worship on our part is a two way street; we worship, God blesses.
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rlg94086
Guest
So, Jesus is your bud. You hang with Jesus. Okay, Dude.
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Pius_X
Guest
These instruments can be incorporated into the liturgy in the proper contexts, I believe, and still be reverent.
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