Catholics Converting to Evangelical: More Fun and Happy

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rlg94086 said:
So, Jesus is your bud. You hang with Jesus. Okay, Dude. :cool:
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Yes, Jesus is my friend. I also worship him, which you forgot to comment on.

I find it surprising that a Catholic would mock this idea, which comes from the word of God itself:

*I no longer call you slaves, because a slave does not know what his master is doing. I have called you friends, because I have told you everything I have heard from my Father. * John 15:15
 
BrownR said:
One thing I love about the Catholic mass is the polyvalent symbology. The almost limitless opportunities for personal or divine reflection. If you aren’t getting anything out of the mass, then buy a book that explains all the symbology and gives you more food for thought as you go through the rubrics and motions. I grew up Protestant and the evangelical movement in particular thrives on what I like to call an “emotional high” during the services. They use music, dance and words to synthesize an emotional experience that church goers construe as the work of the “Holy Spirit”. It’s very much like a motivational event. They associate the “high” with the “Holy Spirit” and are constantly turned inward, examining and ruminating on how they “feel” that day. i.e. “I don’t feel close to God today, what am I doing wrong?” or “Oh, I feel so close to God in this Church while we sing and dance!” It sets them up for a life long roller coaster ride of depths and peaks in their spiritual lives. Some days they feel close to God, and others they don’t because their spiritual lives are intertwined with their emotional experiences. I’ve given this a lot of thought and don’t want to get off on a tangent but suffice to say, I much prefer the Catholic approach to worship. I don’t have to worry about how I feel in a Catholic mass. I know Christ is present in the Eucharist. The symbology of the mass is beautiful and gives me limitless opportunities to examine myself and worship internally and externally. The mass shouldn’t ever be about the laity “having fun” in my opinion. Isn’t the mass a sacrificial event? I say keep it solemn and leave the drums and tambourines at home.
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What a great post! While watching preachers whip up their congregations into a frenzy, I have often felt like I could be watching Tony Robbins. They remind me more of self-help seminars than reglious services.
 
BrownR said:
I grew up Protestant and the evangelical movement in particular thrives on what I like to call an “emotional high” during the services. They use music, dance and words to synthesize an emotional experience that church goers construe as the work of the “Holy Spirit”. It’s very much like a motivational event. They associate the “high” with the “Holy Spirit” and are constantly turned inward, examining and ruminating on how they “feel” that day. i.e. “I don’t feel close to God today, what am I doing wrong?” or “Oh, I feel so close to God in this Church while we sing and dance!” It sets them up for a life long roller coaster ride of depths and peaks in their spiritual lives.
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I have to admit I always found this curious. When I converted to Catholicism I couldn’t exactly tell you why I believed what I believed, unfiortunately, but I always appreciated the depth of belief and theology.
I had been taken to friends to different Protestant churches growing up, thanks be to God and let it be a credit to them Lord, but I never had a sense of any doctrine having sound basis, it changed from denomination to denomination, from preacher to preacher.
Not to say that these people didn’t love Jesus, I’m not about bashing Protestants, it is through them that I believed at all during my challenging formative years. But what I saw seemed like a lot of confusion and definately a dependence on emotion, whether they “felt” like the preacher was “biblical”, if they liked the music or not, if they liked the activities or not, if they liked the congregation or not. Seemed like a lot of choices were made depending on how one felt, and it seems to me now that it is a lot about self-worship, sorry to be blunt…😦
 
Pius_X said:
Yes, Jesus is my friend. I also worship him, which you forgot to comment on.

I find it surprising that a Catholic would mock this idea, which comes from the word of God itself:

I no longer call you slaves, because a slave does not know what his master is doing. I have called you friends, because I have told you everything I have heard from my Father. John 15:15
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I’m not mocking the idea of Jesus as friend. What I am mocking is the idea of worshiping your friend in attire that is the equivalent of hanging out at the beach with your bud.

If your best friend was baptizing his child and asked you to be Godfather, would you show up in the same attire? If not, why not?
 
If we people want to select their own worship music and dance in the aisles, etc., create a separate hour or two long praise and worship event. Don’t corrupt mass.
 
kamiller42 said:
If we people want to select their own worship music and dance in the aisles, etc., create a separate hour or two long praise and worship event. Don’t corrupt mass.
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It would not corrupt the liturgy, it would simply allow more people to select the music.
 
rlg94086 said:
I’m not mocking the idea of Jesus as friend. What I am mocking is the idea of worshiping your friend in attire that is the equivalent of hanging out at the beach with your bud.

If your best friend was baptizing his child and asked you to be Godfather, would you show up in the same attire? If not, why not?
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Well I do not think that Jesus minded so much.

If I was asked to be a godfather, I would probably dress better, as that is the societal norm.
 
Pius_X said:
Well I do not think that Jesus minded so much.

If I was asked to be a godfather, I would probably dress better, as that is the societal norm.
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I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Societal norms aren’t the only basis for how to dress.

Again, it isn’t about whether Jesus minded or not - it is a matter of respect. That’s why the societal norm used to be dressing well for Mass. Unfortunately, not many people have respect for the sacrament of the Eucharist anymore.
 
rlg94086 said:
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Societal norms aren’t the only basis for how to dress.

Again, it isn’t about whether Jesus minded or not - it is a matter of respect. That’s why the societal norm used to be dressing well for Mass. Unfortunately, not many people have respect for the sacrament of the Eucharist anymore.
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The idea of dressing up for the liturgy came from when people dressed in suits and ties everywhere. They dressed the same for a baseball game as they did for Mass.

And I happen to think that I do show respect for the Eucharist, as much as I can.
 
Pius_X said:
And I happen to think that I do show respect for the Eucharist, as much as I can.
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I wasn’t saying you don’t, I was making a general comment on why societal norms have changed. You made it clear that you determine how to dress based on societal norms.

BTW…I never said suits and ties are necessary. I personally don’t usually wear a tie, but I often (not always) wear a sport coat. My point is not about dressing up, rather that it is inappropriate to dress down. Shorts and t-shirts with flip-flops is not something that should be worn to Mass IMHO.
 
My apologies to all for helping take this thread off-course. :o

I don’t think Catholics are converting to Evangelical due to dressing norms, so it is very off topic. In fact, based on my pre-Catholic experiences, I would say that Evangelicals generally dress nicer to church than Catholics do at Mass.
 
Pius_X said:
kuwaittimes.net/read_news.php?newsid=NzgzMTU4MzY5

I believe that it is our own Church’s responsibility to try to keep people in the faith. Perhaps more folk masses, or, letting the people pick from a list of songs that they want to sing at mass. I am not advocating a free for all, however, why not allow more participation from the people in picking music suitable for the liturgy?
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Actually, it’s the people’s responsibility to want to know their faith. Many simply don’t care. The Church can do her best to try and educate the people but like my dh says “you can not force people to learn something they simply do not want to learn.” We have some excellent materials out there for learning about the Catholic faith. However, those materials do no good if the people do not want to read them.

Christ said the road to Salvation was narrow and the way hard and few will find it. The road to destruction wide and the way easy and many will take it. Most people today are more interested in the wide road than they are in the narrow road.
 
this may sound like its off topic a little, but its my personal experience from the people arround me. too many people want excitement in everything, that includes worshiping God on sunday. Catholic organ Mass to many is just boring. in a america I hate to say, we have become a society of thrill seekers. I wont name the examples of that, I know most of you could name lots of them your selves. we need to teach our young that life isnt all about exitement, that the raod to heaven isnt chocked full of exitemet. you can have your excitement when you get to heaven. people get bored too easily today, more people should of been raised like I was. if I said I was bored, a broom was slammed in to my hands and I was told to get to work. more people should of been raised that way it looks like to me. I dont know how do go about it, but getting people off their excitement addiction may help. I never was addicted, too much excitement causes me migraines and nose bleeds.
 
Sabda said:
The Church can do her best to try and educate the people but like my dh says “you can not force people to learn something they simply do not want to learn.”
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Do you sincerely believe the Church “does her best” to educate people? Our local Parish has miserable educational opportunities. When my wife decide to home school cathecism, she was charged $50/child for the privledge to do so. All she got was a lame study guide worth about $4.95!

Nohome
 
One of the primary reasons why I converted to the Catholic faith is because, for me, the happy, peppy, feel good stuff going on in my protestant church was not enough. Something was missing and for the longest time I could not figure out what it was. When I started going to Mass, that is when I found out what was missing for me-the Real Presence, the tradition, the beauty and solemnity of the Mass. I have never looked back. Don’t get me wrong- I know that people need socialization within their church family, but when the focus is more on that that Jesus, then there is a problem. Just my 2 cents
 
Nohome said:
Do you sincerely believe the Church “does her best” to educate people? Our local Parish has miserable educational opportunities. When my wife decide to home school catechism, she was charged $50/child for the privilege to do so. All she got was a lame study guide worth about $4.95!

Nohome
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The CCC specifically states that parents are the primary teachers of their children. Too many people depend on classes to educate their children without doing anything at home. I’m not accusing you of this but many do. My parish is really small and right now we are in the middle of renovating our church building. That means there is no place for CCD classes. That means it is all up to the parents. I have found this to be a real blessing. Being forced to actually teach my child about the faith helps me to learn my faith better. Most CCD classes teach the faith. They do not have the time to help the child learn about the Bible. The parents should be making that commitment. Many do not. I do this with my oldest. We read from the Bible and from her Catechism. My youngest is not quite 4 yr yet so for him I simply spend time reading Bible stories to him. Honestly, the Bible is his absolute favorite book. You ask him to go pick out a book and it’s the first one he grabs.

When I asked around in my parish for what catechism books they used they recommended the St Joseph’s First Communion Catechism . I have found this to be an awesome one. Sure the pictures are a little dated but the teaching inside is solid. I spend a lot of time looking at books on the faith for my kids as there are so many to choose from. Another good book I found was A Catholic Encyclopedia for Children . This book is good because it not only has the basic Gospel story in it but it also has some basic history on the Church and explains the faith to the children. Another thing I found and picked up for my kids was the Friendly Defenders Flash Cards. These help the child learn more about the faith and Bible and help children to answer questions about the faith. My parish did not require me to pay them anything. I don’t know why your parish did. Mine simply told me what catechism to get and where to get it. I then went and picked it up. Our priest has also given my children some books on the faith. He did not require me to pay him anything. We were talking about my oldest preparing for her First Communion and he went and got them for her and my son to read. Like I said there are some really good materials out there but the parents have got to look.
 
tom.wineman said:
Anybody that would leave the church because he wants better entertainment and fun stuff certainly doesn’t know what the Mass is all about.
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Agreed…remember, we have the Eucharist and that’s all that matters.
 
boppaid said:
I agree. But it is a good way to get people to come to God, fill their hearts with emotion and lay down at the feet of Jesus.
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Emotion IMHO is not a sound foundation of faith. It is like the sand spoken about in the Bible.
 
KathleenElsie said:
Emotion IMHO is not a sound foundation of faith. It is like the sand spoken about in the Bible.
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I don’t think anyone said emotion is a foundation of faith. It is a good tool for some people, though, to be brought to Christ.
 
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