Catholics React to Biden's Kamala Harris VP Selection: ‘Deeply Flawed’

[Ridgerunner]

The article is, at best, out of date. Biden flipped on the Hyde Amendment days after the article and now opposes it. He now favors using Medicaid to pay for abortions. And nothing in the article evidences that he otherwise has any problem with abortion whatever. He doesn’t. He’s just as pro-abortion as Kamala Harris.

“Devout Roman Catholics” do not promise to legislate for abortion even if the Supreme Court reverses Roe vs. Wade. Biden is a true believer in abortion.

He also opposed the confirmaiton of Alito, Thomas and Roberts. Too Catholic for him, I guess.

Planned Parenthood forum: Joe Biden explains why he flipped on the Hyde Amendment - Vox.

 

[Nepperhan]

So, you expected Obama to start a war on behalf of the Kurds?

I think we are far away from the subject of Kamala Harris.

 

[JonNC]

So, you expected Obama to start a war on behalf of the Kurds?

He did in Libya. Or would that be unjust? Was Libya unjust?
You see, that was your first claim, that the war in Iraq was unjust. I simply said the Kurds might have a different perspective.
The war may have been unwise, but unjust may be in the eyes of the oppressed.

Just following your lead.

Actually, you started it with your comment about an unjust war.

 

[StudentMI]

I don’t think calling the Iraq war unjust is a partisan thing. I’d be considered right wing and I think it was unjust.

 

[JonNC]

I don’t think calling the Iraq war unjust is a partisan thing. I’d be considered right wing and I think it was unjust.

It is when uttered by a partisan.
My point is that it may have been unwise. It may have been a mistake, based on faulty intel. But unjust? Again, the Kurds would disagree.

 

[StudentMI]

What different people and groups think is interesting but ultimately I’m interested in objective facts.

But getting back to Harris…

 

[JonNC]

What different people and groups think is interesting but ultimately I’m interested in objective facts.

But getting back to Harris…

I think the Kurds would consider that war just as a fact.

 

[JonNC]

Actually, it was Pope John Paul II who said the war in Iraq was unjust.

He was welcome to his opinion. I’m not even necessarily disagreeing with him. What I’m saying is that the Kurds did not think it unjust, and the war’s impact on them was just. Unless you think they were better off under Saddam.

For the Kurds, I don’t think the opportunity existed for Obama to act in a war to support them.

He was in Afghanistan. He had troops all over the Middle East. He proved a willingness to attack other countries. He doesn’t deserve anymore defense on the issue of the Kurds than Bush or Trump.

Could he have started one? I suppose. Would it have been just (by Catholic doctrine)? I’m not sure.

You’re not sure? But you’re sure the benefits The Kurds received from the Iraq war were unjust.

Similarly for Libya, where the US was assisting one side in a civil war consisting of sanctions and some bombing runs. Was it a just war by Catholic doctrine? I think an argument can be made for and against.

But helping the Kurds during the Iraq war was unjust. No argument.

Ah, I brought up Catholic doctrine and that makes me a partisan? Got it.

Hiding you’re partisanship in an appeal to authority.

 

[RidgeSprinter]

So which of these statements do you disagree with then?

1. Women are moral agents.
2. Abortion is murder.
3. Murder committed by a moral agent should be punished.

2 of 3. Maybe all three depending on the theological debate of moral agent.

1. Women are moral agents.
   a) biblically No > is man a free moral agent? Absolutely not! Man is not a free moral agent . He is indeed an agent, a mediator, but it is the agency of death, not life. He is not moral, not in the sense of godliness. He is free but only in the realm wherein he was born. His will has to do that which comes naturally. That is, he has a free will to chose that which is enmity against God; but he is not free to choose God whose nature he does not possess. We must, therefore, conclude that man was born an immoral slave to sin and is incapable of mediating anything but death!
   b) non-biblically YES
2. Abortion is murder.
   a) Miscarriage is a euphemistic term for Abortion. God created the ability of the body to self-Abort a fetus. God created things that allow a person to force a miscarriage: Mercury, Green Papaya, Black Cohosh, etc
   b) Numbers 5: 11-31 If the woman fails the test of adultery by drinking the magic potion prepared by the Priest and happens to be pregnant, than an abortion occurs.
   c) the Church at one time allow abortion before the “Quickening”
   d) The "Quickening": Another Way of Looking at the Abortion Debate. - Being Libertarian
   e)(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
3. Murder committed by a moral agent should be punished.
   Jesus said who is without sin, cast the first stone.

 

[Julie4]

This is the truth:

“But for Catholics in favor of prenatal justice, and of government defending these children from terrible violence, we must say that Harris is a deeply flawed candidate. Unreserved praise of her VP candidacy is, in effect, yet another example of erasure of the prenatal child,” Camosy said.

 

[JonNC]

It’s good that you allow Pope John Paul II to have his opinion. As a Catholic, you probably should pay a bit more attention to what the Pope has to say on moral issues

As someone not in communion with him, I hold his opinions in high regard, particularly in areas of faith, but I’m not bound to agree with everything he says.

Pointing out Church teaching isn’t partisanship.

Pointing out your selective use of it is.

 

[AlNg]

b) Numbers 5: 11-31 If the woman fails the test of adultery by drinking the magic potion prepared by the Priest and happens to be pregnant, than an abortion occurs.

An abortion occurs, yes, but both the woman and the unborn die, correct? This was used only in a case of suspected adultery, when the wife was married?

 

[WingedHussar]

a) biblically No > is man a free moral agent? Absolutely not! Man is not a free moral agent . He is indeed an agent, a mediator, but it is the agency of death, not life. He is not moral, not in the sense of godliness. He is free but only in the realm wherein he was born. His will has to do that which comes naturally. That is, he has a free will to chose that which is enmity against God; but he is not free to choose God whose nature he does not possess. We must, therefore, conclude that man was born an immoral slave to sin and is incapable of mediating anything but death!

Wrong as per Galatians 5:1, “For freedom Christ has set us free.”

• Abortion is murder.
  a) Miscarriage is a euphemistic term for Abortion. God created the ability of the body to self-Abort a fetus. God created things that allow a person to force a miscarriage: Mercury, Green Papaya, Black Cohosh, etc
  b) Numbers 5: 11-31 If the woman fails the test of adultery by drinking the magic potion prepared by the Priest and happens to be pregnant, than an abortion occurs.
  c) the Church at one time allow abortion before the “Quickening”
  d) The "Quickening": Another Way of Looking at the Abortion Debate. - Being Libertarian
  e)(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Quit playing word games. That may have been the meaning the in the past, but now it is used to refer to the ending of a pregnancy via the intentional killing of the child.

• Murder committed by a moral agent should be punished.
  Jesus said who is without sin, cast the first stone.

Notice He did not disagree with the justness of the penalty, only the authority of those particular individuals to deal it out. However we read in Romans 13:4 that the state serves as the agent of God to execute His wrath on the wrongdoer. Jesus also reminds Pontius Pilate that his authority to punish was entrusted to him by God.

 

[RidgeSprinter]

An abortion occurs, yes, but both the woman and the unborn die, correct? This was used only in a case of suspected adultery, when the wife was married?

Yes, only an accusation of suspicion had to be made. Over time the Jews had to Cafeteria pick this out of the things they did because the accusations were becoming way too numerous and the Priests had run out of temple floor dust.

Yes God kills an innocent in the process of killing the mother.

 

[JonNC]

I pointed out something that was to show that a statement made by another poster was incorrect. I didn’t realize that you weren’t Catholic or I wouldn’t have bothered as you are not in communion with the Pope and would likely disregard what he said.

That’s contrary to what I said, but you are welcome to respond or not. Again, if Pope St. John Paul thought the war was unjust in its impact on the Kurds, I respectfully disagree.

 

[JonNC]

Women are moral agents.
a) biblically No > is man a free moral agent? Absolutely not! Man is not a free moral agent . He is indeed an agent, a mediator, but it is the agency of death, not life. He is not moral, not in the sense of godliness. He is free but only in the realm wherein he was born. His will has to do that which comes naturally. That is, he has a free will to chose that which is enmity against God; but he is not free to choose God whose nature he does not possess. We must, therefore, conclude that man was born an immoral slave to sin and is incapable of mediating anything but death!

This is most certainly true.

 

[JonNC]

Well, I guess you should have understood the context to which I brought up the point instead of calling it partisan.

It was partisan, pure and simple.

 

[AlNg]

Again, if Pope St. John Paul thought the war was unjust in its impact on the Kurds, I respectfully disagree.

Perhaps the Kurds should have their own separate country, but both Turkey and Iraq don’t seem to want that.

 

[RidgeSprinter]

Wrong as per Galatians 5:1, “For freedom Christ has set us free.”

It is not what you believe it to be.
Haydocks commentary says to look at Gal 4:9 to understand what is being talked about here:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Quit playing word games. That may have been the meaning the in the past, but now it is used to refer to the ending of a pregnancy via the intentional killing of the child.

Historical context is everything. Otherwise the quote “to be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant” would have no meaning.

Notice He did not disagree with the justness of the penalty, only the authority of those particular individuals to deal it out.

Actually he neither disagreed or agreed.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[signit]

This has been suggested in the U.S.; a “none of the above” option, and if “none of the above” wins the office stays vacant.