CDC Study: 85% of Coronavirus Patients Reported Wearing Masks ‘Always’ or ‘Often’

[LeafByNiggle]

For the patient to be able to leave the house for a normal outing, the family would have to demand everyone else in public close themselves down just so that patient could get out of the house. How selfish is that? By the same token, we’re seeing constant demands for the young to hold themselves back so the vulnerable minority can go anywhere they want and force everyone else to hold themselves in check.

This is a misrepresentation of how much of the population is vulnerable. It is a lot more than just chemotherapy patients. I would say it is selfish for young people to insist on living their lives with no restrictions, forcing everyone who is vulnerable to quit their jobs and stay holed up somewhere like they are in prison.

Regarding “getting back to work”, note that most of China has already done that, because they had a national strategy of intensive testing, contact tracing, and narrowly-targeted isolation. So the “jobs vs. mitigation” dichotomy is a false one. China shows that we can have both.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle . . .

What is mitigating is that the numbers are lower than they would have been if no mitigation was in place.

That is not necessarily true though if you carry it out in more time.

Mitigation just flattens the curve.
It does not STOP the spread. Right Leaf?

It COULD BE true, but you need something else.
Something else like a safe effective vaccine.

For now, your argument hinges upon a phantom untried medication.

(It also has not been studied via prospective studies, randomized studies, peer-reviewed, published so other research groups can see if the results are really reproducible, or aporoved by the FDA. All things you have suggested [remember hydroxychloroquine Leaf?] you are in favor of.)

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle . . .

What is mitigating is that the numbers are lower than they would have been if no mitigation was in place.

China’s experience shows that mitigation works.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle . . . .

China’s experience shows that mitigation works.

.

What Chinese data are you referring to?

You mean their “zero case” rate that has been posted that the Chinese Government was bragging about Leaf?

.

And China’s experience shows that
mitigation works for WHAT?

Do you think corona virus cases are now gone in China?

Even if I were gullible enough to believe Chinese Government “data”,
what about “tomorrow” as the virus continues to percolate through their society?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Actually the infection rate in Mexico is no worse than the US.

Or so the corrupt Mexican government says?

That is the far-right talking point, but it has not been established

Gallup says 35-40% wont take it. So I stand corrected by Gallup.

One in Three Americans Would Not Get COVID-19 Vaccine

Democrat propaganda organ NBC News, though, says it’s less than half who will take it.

Poll: Less than half of Americans say they'll get a coronavirus vaccine

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle . . . .

China’s experience shows that mitigation works.

That China’s economy grew by 4.9% in the 3rd quarter while most of the rest of the nations saw their economy decline. They are open for business because they used intensive mitigation strategies in an intelligent manner.

Do you think corona virus cases are now gone in China?

No, they are reduced to manageable widely-scattered outbreaks that are dealt with quickly without locking down wide regions of the country.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

What is mitigating is that the numbers are lower than they would have been if no mitigation was in place.

If cases are increasing after months of mask mandates, that’s certainly not mitigation to begin with.

The amount of inherent immunity of that sort is pure speculation at this point. Public health officials are still saying that we are a long way from herd immunity currently, and that such immunity achieved by allowing the virus to “run its course” will cost any lives.

The anecdotal data regarding this type of immunity is voluminous and a lot of scientists are studying this topic, but “la la la la …” from your ilk.

Scientists See Signs of Lasting Immunity to Covid-19, Even After Mild Infections - The New York Times

Coronavirus: Nearly third of symptomless people may have developed immunity, study says | The Independent | The Independent

Many more can be found with simple searches that you won’t engage in because your mind is already closed to the possibility.

This is a misrepresentation of how much of the population is vulnerable. It is a lot more than just chemotherapy patients. I would say it is selfish for young people to insist on living their lives with no restrictions, forcing everyone who is vulnerable to quit their jobs and stay holed up somewhere like they are in prison.

Yes the numbers are different as you are very quick to point out. But no it is no different caring for the Covid-19-vulnerable than it is caring for chemotherapy patients. That’s where your point falls apart. Not to mention your dismissive attitude toward my generation and younger shows itself. I would say it’s selfish of the minority who are vulnerable to require by force of law the majority who are not vulnerable to kowtow to having their economic sustenance cut. Same level of selfishness that would be expected of a chemotherapy patient who demanded the neighborhood around him to shut itself down so he could move freely.

Regarding “getting back to work”, note that most of China has already done that, because they had a national strategy of intensive testing, contact tracing, and narrowly-targeted isolation. So the “jobs vs. mitigation” dichotomy is a false one. China shows that we can have both.

Chinese numbers have always been fuzzy to begin with. Long before Covid-19, there has been a cottage industry of those persons specializing in divining different indications from China as to the reality of the numbers the CCP puts out. Their numbers for Wuhan dead were definitely larger than the official count or did you forget about all those extra cremations going on at the time? Or the extraordinary numbers of cremation urns that were finally delivered to Wuhan families?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

What is mitigating is that the numbers are lower than they would have been if no mitigation was in place.

If cases are increasing after months of mask mandates, that’s certainly not mitigation to begin with.

No logic at all in that conclusion.

The amount of inherent immunity of that sort is pure speculation at this point. Public health officials are still saying that we are a long way from herd immunity currently, and that such immunity achieved by allowing the virus to “run its course” will cost any lives.

The anecdotal data regarding this type of immunity is voluminous and a lot of scientists are studying this topic, but “la la la la …” from your ilk.

“They are studying this topic” does not mean “then have concluded anything” on this topic. I am all for studying.

Nearly third of symptomless people may have developed immunity to coronavirus, study says

Key word is “may.”

Many more can be found with simple searches that you won’t engage in because your mind is already closed to the possibility.

“I have lots more evidence, but I’m not going to show you.”

This is a misrepresentation of how much of the population is vulnerable. It is a lot more than just chemotherapy patients. I would say it is selfish for young people to insist on living their lives with no restrictions, forcing everyone who is vulnerable to quit their jobs and stay holed up somewhere like they are in prison.

Yes the numbers are different as you are very quick to point out. But no it is no different caring for the Covid-19-vulnerable than it is caring for chemotherapy patients.

Except the numbers.

Not to mention your dismissive attitude toward my generation and younger shows itself.

Let’s not get personal, OK?

I would say it’s selfish of the minority who are vulnerable to require by force of law the majority who are not vulnerable to kowtow to having their economic sustenance cut.

That too is a misrepresentation of mitigation measures. It does not take having economic sustenance cut, as China has showed us.

Chinese numbers have always been fuzzy to begin with.

Maybe the exact number of early covid deaths are fuzzy, but the present economic success of China is externally verifiable.

 

[Cathoholic]

WHY do you think these outbreaks keep happening if they are so “manageable”?

You are making my point Leaf.

That’s what mitigation does. It slows down the rate of spread.

Flattening the curve does not keep people from getting a virus (see here or below).

From here . . .

As Dr. Lisa Maragakis, Senior Director of Infection Prevention at Johns Hopkins Medical School explained, flattening the curve means that “ the same large number of patients arrived at the hospital at a slower rate. [emphasis mine]”

Flattening the curve slows down the spread, so as to not overwhelm the medical system.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

WHY do you think these outbreaks keep happening if they are so “manageable”?

Why not? Are you suggesting that because outbreaks are manageable, they should never happen?

That’s what mitigation does. It slows down the rate of spread.

As Dr. Lisa Maragakis, Senior Director of Infection Prevention at Johns Hopkins Medical School explained, flattening the curve means that “ the same large number of patients arrived at the hospital at a slower rate. [emphasis mine]”

This is the explanation of a term, “flattening the curve.” It is not imply that mitigation can do no more than “flatten the curve”. I am sure that Dr. Maragakis did not mean to imply that the same number of people were going to get sick regardless of what we do. This is a good example of taking a quote out of context to apply a meaning that the author did not intend.

 

[Maxirad]

Dr. Scott Gottlieb urges people to wear masks.

 

[humilityseeker]

And NONE of them have destroyed our health system right humilityseeker

I think we are talking past each other. The total sum of a health system nation wide for a western country ( a wealthy country) is not destroyed, with a country with large numbers of infection and death. Where the impact on the health system is seen is local. (Its a pity you dont use the quote function as it would be much easier to go back to earlier posts you are quoting)

Locally the pandemic has a huge impact on the health system, both in capital and in the workforce.

Which brings me right back to my original point about the futility of masking-up
to stop spread (doesn’t occur)
or to flatten the curve (which we now know, does not matter because we know the health system can survive).

We have already established that no public health authority has said wearing masks will stop the spread , havent we. We have established , and it was shown well in the youtube you put up, that even a damp wash cloth limits the droplet spread and emission.

We have also established that the ‘flatten the curve’ thinking is not relevant to Covid. Its a non starter.

Corona virus is endemic.
The mandated masking up FORCE is going to have to be permanent ,
or something has to change with regards to leftists like Newsom who are making rules up about re-masking between bites of food.

This is non-sense.

It is attempting to fight a virus with psychological feel-good mechanisms,
or it is someone drunk on power,
or both.

I am ignoring the political rhetoric and wont engage in it.

But it is not science.

If you are going to claim that there is no validity , scientifically, in wearing a mask, then show me a similar graphic where covid droplets go right through some form of mask/barrier exactly the same as these droplets travel unmasked.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle . . .

Are you suggesting that because outbreaks are manageable, they should never happen?

Where ithe USA have these became UNMANAGEABLE (except in New Yorks LTCFs where Democrat Andrew Cuomo ordered INFECTED patients INTO the facilities that were rife with the infirm and elderly resulting in a significant fraction of death not only in New York state, but in our country)?

.

Leaf . . .

It is not imply that mitigation can do no more than “flatten the curve”.

I agree but in specifics but in practicality . . .

Let me see if I got you correct LeaByNiggle.

Are you suggesting “mitigation” stops coronavrus?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Where ithe USA have these became UNMANAGEABLE

North Dakota, South Dakota, Wisconsin. These are right now at or near capacity in ICU space, and more importantly, doctors and nurses to care for these patients. Unlike more populous states, the Dakotas do not have multiple hospitals in their cities. In many cases people live far from any hospital, and such small resources are easily overwhelmed by numbers that don’t seem that high in less rural states.

 

[Theo520]

China’s experience shows that mitigation works.

You really believe that?

China shows that an authoritarian govt can squash a virus.
The rest of the world has tried to mitigate, with varying degrees of success.

 

[Theo520]

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[RidgeSprinter]

China
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US
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[Jeanne_S]

Cases not deaths…

 

[RidgeSprinter]

US
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China
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[Jeanne_S]

350 million Americans,more die from the seasonal flu.Majoity of these deaths were in age group above 80 with comorbidities.in nursing home facilities.
My mom died at 92 from CDif she caught in nursing home.