Cecil the lion's killer revealed as American dentist

[Bubba_Switzler]

The worst part of this is supposedly the lion was lured from a protected wildlife area, then shot with a bow and arrow. The wounded lion then was hunted and killed. I do believe trophy hunting should be banned.

Here is why not:

Man manages animal habitats, particuarly where they are constrained by human habitat. That requires controlling wild animal populations. If, for example, predators are allowed to multiply without constraint they will a) overconsume their prey, and b) endanger human lives.

So killing animals such as lions is necessary.

Trophy hunting is a proven method to earn income in the process. The numbers need to be culled and hunters are willing to pay to do it.

However, this is an animal, a lion. Regardless of this cruelty, how is this more cruel then selling baby parts via the Planned Parenthood videos or for that matter the abortion of all babies is much crueler! The mediums dwelling on the lion or dentist rather than Planned Parenthood is problematic!

and

There’s something pathological about all the vengeance directed toward this dentist…
people hoping that the man loses his livelihood, and PETA calling for his hanging!

I don’t condone what he did; it’s terrible that the lion died such a slow death.
But the outrage is WAY out of all sane proportions.

This society has definitely lost its moral compass.

Agreed.

 

[Windmill]

With bow hunting, you rarely kill the animal with the first shot. It is part of bow hunting that you have to be a good tracker. The media have missed the whole point here: The dentist took 40 freaking hours tracking the lion and making sure he finished the kill. That is partly due to his wanting the trophy, but also it is part of a bow hunter’s code: don’t shoot the animal with the arrow and then fail to carry out the kill. You don’t let an animal just wander off and you not pursue it. How many people would stick to something grueling for 40 hours straight? He tried to minimize the animal’s suffering. That’s part of good hunting.

Man, people are so used to a sanitized version of animal management. We get our beef off of mythical “cow trees” and they come in nice styrofoam trays with pretty cellophane wrapping and a cute label. There’s hardly any blood because of those sponges in there, and you most definitely don’t see the slaughterhouses. People: hunting, slaughtering of animals, processing the meat…it’s gory and unattractive. But eating meat is part of being human. We consume lower animals because God gave us dominion over the whole earth and the animals and plants therein. They are lower in order than man. There is nothing wrong with hunting. There is nothing wrong with bow hunting. There is something wrong with glorying in suffering of animals. Apparently this hunter didn’t do that.

 

[St_Pancake]

No one said that hunting per se is illegal. What the catechism says is “It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly.” No debate needed.

You’re right, if everyone agreed. Otherwise your proclamation is just a nuisance.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Goodness me, this is painful!

Given that the catechism says that “It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly.” I would say that **if hunting **is done needlessly or **causes animals to suffer **then it against the catechism, if it doesn’t, then it isn’t.

And hunting is illegal in certain circumstances.

No, the flaw in your argument is that the Catechism says it is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. That does not mean it is against the Catechism to cause animals to suffer.

What is against the Catechism is to cause animals to suffer NEEDLESSLY or to die NEEDLESSLY.

Causing animals to suffer will happen to some extent every time they are caused to die or injured somehow. The question is whether their deaths are needless and whether they suffer needlessly – i.e., without a justifiable reason for their suffering.

The issue isn’t merely whether animals are caused to suffer. THAT isn’t against the Catechism, despite what you keep claiming.

Would you call the sacrifice of animals in the OT causing them needless suffering, since they weren’t necessarily eaten afterwards, but burned?

 

[TK421]

This is why Pope Francis explicitly frowns over the fact that Westerners burn through thousands of dollars a year on their pets. Some of the sentiment in this thread is theologically, sociologically, and psychologically disturbing and disappointing. I don’t know where it comes from. Too many cartoons? Living in urban environments and being completely removed from the realities of the ecosystem? Why is a man that illegally shot a lion receiving a pence as much concern as every other thread on the page of World News? Cecil the Lion never in his entire life possessed the virtues of love, hope, or faith. This is official teaching. This is faith. Do whatever it is you need to do to in order to come to terms with it. Prayer & humility is the essential first step. If you can feel your blood pressure rising in your chest and sensations of anger tingling down your thighs as a result of what I just wrote, you need to get on your knees and pray immediately. Don’t even bother finishing my post.

As the value of human life decreases, it seems the value of animal life increases. Like they need something to fill the void. Consciences are being improperly formed. Attitudes are based solely on glandular thrusts (a puppy is cute, ergo a dead puppy evokes a stronger reaction than a dead human being. There is no supernatural logos/pathos being evoked in the human person). Mankind puts himself at grave risk with an unformed conscience.

Social media’s ability to destroy human lives is in many ways the spiritual child of the Roman Coliseum. The mob seeks its pound of flesh to flay for its own carnal delight. Perhaps this man will be murdered by a vigilante. That might be what it takes to persuade the hearts of some. But not even that will be enough for many.

Jesus Christ, have mercy on us. We are a confused generation.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

This is why Pope Francis explicitly frowns over the fact that Westerners burn through thousands of dollars a year on their pets. Some of the sentiment in this thread is theologically, sociologically, and psychologically disturbing and disappointing. I don’t know where it comes from. Too many cartoons? Living in urban environments and being completely removed from the realities of the ecosystem? Why is a man that illegally shot a lion receiving a pence as much concern as every other thread on the page of World News? Cecil the Lion never in his entire life possessed the virtues of love, hope, or faith. This is official teaching. This is faith. Do whatever it is you need to do to in order to come to terms with it. Prayer & humility is the essential first step. If you can feel your blood pressure rising in your chest and sensations of anger tingling down your thighs as a result of what I just wrote, you need to get on your knees and pray immediately. Don’t even bother finishing my post.

As the value of human life decreases, it seems the value of animal life increases. Like they need something to fill the void. Consciences are being improperly formed. Attitudes are based solely on glandular thrusts (a puppy is cute, ergo a dead puppy evokes a stronger reaction than a dead human being. There is no supernatural logos/pathos being evoked in the human person). Mankind puts himself at grave risk with an unformed conscience.

Social media’s ability to destroy human lives is in many ways the spiritual child of the Roman Coliseum. The mob seeks its pound of flesh to flay for its own carnal delight. Perhaps this man will be murdered by a vigilante. That might be what it takes to persuade the hearts of some. But not even that will be enough for many.

Jesus Christ, have mercy on us. We are a confused generation.

Cecil the Lion also never stalked a human being. He never stole, plotted to ruin someone’s reputation and job. Never did a whole host of terrible things that “human” beings do. He grew into what God intended him to be. Most humans do not. If he had been killed by another lion for necessary food, it would have been sad, but so be it. It’s a known fact that people who kill animals for pleasure often go on to kill humans for pleasure.

I hope this “dentist” is extradited to Zimbabwe. I’ve heard on CNN that Zimbabwe has begun formal extradition procedures, and the US does have a treaty with Zimbabwe. Even if he’s not extradited, I think this horrible man’s days of the “high life” are over. He’ll have to live out his fantasies of being a “big man” in other ways, and probably with a LOT less money.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

None of what you say above applies in this particular case as Zimbabwe National Parks have said that that lion hunting using firearms requires a permit and a quota which is assigned to a given area. This killing was illegal because it took place in an area that does not have a quota for lion kills, and Palmer’s use of a bow and arrow against Cecil was in contravention of Zimbabwean hunting regulations, So this IS in breach of the catechism, not that that will matter one bit to Walter Palmer, but he will never work again.

That will hurt Palmer almost more than a Zimbabwean prison. Not quite, but almost. We all know how much dental work costs today. A fortune. It’s becoming something for only the rich. Palmer does not strike me as a man who’s scrimped and saved his money. Even if he sells his business and home, a lot of that money will go toward legal bills. I doubt that fighting extradition comes cheap. I HOPE he ends up in a Zimbabwean prison, but his “fun” life is over no matter what. He’ll never be able to show his face in public again.

As for people liking animals more than most people, animals grow into what God intended for them to be. Most people do not. The rampant secularization and sexualization of society makes me sick.

 

[TK421]

As for people liking animals more than most people, animals grow into what God intended for them to be.

So does mold. It has no option but to, and it is therefore amoral. It operates according to the mechanical laws of the universe and has no supernatural ability to do otherwise.

Most people do not. The rampant secularization and sexualization of society makes me sick.

But Jesus cares more about Palmer, even (and especially) an unrepentant one, than 100 trillion lions. He cares more about a sex trafficker than 100 trillion lions. The value of a human person is infinite. He did not go to the cross to save the just. It is metaphysically impossible to hate Palmer without hating Jesus Christ, Mary, and all of the saints. This is the standard set forth in the Gospel which, by conscience, we must bow down to. If we find ourselves emotionally and psychologically unable to do this, because of worldly attachment to lesser goods, then we must flee to God in prayer, so that we can receive this grace.

Pets are a common worldly good to be attached to in the 21st century, because they offer natural affection, and so we might desire this natural affection (which possesses no merit) in place of supernatural affection. The 21st century Western world is lacking in the family bonds & communal life that was enjoyed in the past. This is why cats & dogs are used as substitutes. It is an expression of our hunger for love, which the animal is incapable of providing.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

So does mold. It has no option but to, and it is therefore amoral. It operates according to the mechanical laws of the universe and has no supernatural ability to do otherwise.

But Jesus cares more about Palmer, even (and especially) an unrepentant one, than 100 trillion lions. He cares more about a sex trafficker than 100 trillion lions. The value of a human person is infinite. He did not go to the cross to save the just. It is metaphysically impossible to hate Palmer without hating Jesus Christ, Mary, and all of the saints. This is the standard set forth in the Gospel which, by conscience, we must bow down to. If we find ourselves emotionally and psychologically unable to do this, because of worldly attachment to lesser goods, then we must flee to God in prayer, so that we can receive this grace.

I’m a theologian. I know why Jesus went to the Cross.

Don’t try to twist my words. I never once said I “hated” Palmer. I don’t. However, I DO hate what he did, and reportedly, he is a sexual molester (of young human women) as well. While I don’t hate Palmer and hope he repents, I DO hope he is held accountable for his misdeeds, just as I hope the jury finds the Cincinnati policeman guilty of killing an unarmed African-American man who posed no threat to him.

People are rude, thoughtless, mean, petty, jealous, and a whole host of other things awful. They take delight in seeing others suffer. Animals don’t do that. As I said, I don’t “hate” Palmer. I hope he repents and sees the terrible error of his ways, but I have doubts that will ever happen.

I don’t need to “flee” to God in prayer. I already pray more than once daily. It’s people like Palmer who need to “flee” to God in prayer, and it’s people like Palmer who are probably arguing that Christ is a “myth” or a “hallucination” of the apostles. Christ himself rebuked when necessary. Palmer needs exactly what he’s getting.

 

[TK421]

No, but unless I am misreading your posts (which is highly possible through this medium of communication) there seems to be vitriol bleeding through in your post.

Do you believe that Palmer had true joy even before any of this happened to him? If he had never been caught, and went home and continued to enjoy his high salary and whatever lifestyle suited him, would he be a person worth envying?

Oh well. I think you’re just having an exceedingly stronger reaction to this than I am. When I think of “injustice” and “depravity”, a dentist that illegally shot a lion isn’t exactly the first thing that would pop up.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

No, but unless I am misreading your posts (which is highly possible through this medium of communication) there seems to be vitriol bleeding through in your post.

Do you believe that Palmer had true joy even before any of this happened to him? If he had never been caught, and went home and continued to enjoy his high salary and whatever lifestyle suited him, would he be a person worth envying?

No, Palmer, even before this incident is not someone even a homeless person should envy in any way. He seems to suffer from abysmally low self-esteem. I’m just sick of people getting away with murder (literally, of humans and animals) and sick of seeing everything from toothpaste (!) to toilet cleaner hawked as something that is going to make someone “sexy” and desirable. Society is just sick. Mold isn’t. It’s just mold.

I don’t waste my energies on anger and vitriol. What you might see is frustration. Things keep going from bad to worse in this country (US).

 

[TK421]

Poaching is theft, not murder.

 

[Dwyer]

Gee, it isn’t the Last Lion in the world that was hunted.

If there was a conspiracy to kill (poach) this particular lion, i.e. Cecil, and lure in out of the Park among the hunters and their guides, then a crime was committed.

Otherwise, I say to the mob out there wanting this dentist’s skin, get over it.

Also, if people want to Safari hunt and shoot big game animals, that’s their right and privilege to do so.

Other people don’t have to approve of it and personally I don’t hunt at all but it sounds probably a more interesting way of spending one’s time than sitting in front of a TV or Computer Screen six hours a day and rotting your brain to the junk TV and garbage people watch and listen to.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Gee, it isn’t the Last Lion in the world that was hunted.

If there was a conspiracy to kill (poach) this particular lion, i.e. Cecil, and lure in out of the Park among the hunters and their guides, then a crime was committed.

Otherwise, I say to the mob out there wanting this dentist’s skin, get over it.

Also, if people want to Safari hunt and shoot big game animals, that’s their right and privilege to do so.

Other people don’t have to approve of it and personally I don’t hunt at all but it sounds probably a more interesting way of spending one’s time than sitting in front of a TV or Computer Screen six hours a day and rotting your brain to the junk TV and garbage people watch and listen to.

Gee, maybe when another human is killed or another fetus someone will say, “It’s not like it was the last human killed, you know. There are plenty more.”

I don’t approve of anyone sitting in front of anything for six hours a day if they don’t have to, however, you do have a mistake in your reasoning. Mr. Palmer did NOT have the right to go to an animal sanctuary, lure a protected animal our of his den, and then shoot him with a bow. Cecil LIVED in an animal sanctuary. Of course he was lured out. Mr. Palmer committed a crime, and he needs to be held accountable for that crime. He needs to pay the penalty, which is prison time in Zimbabwe.

Sure, God gave man dominion over the animals, but not to senselessly kill them for “fun.” To use as needed and to care for and protect. Mr. Palmer wasn’t doing any of the right things and all of the wrong ones.

I agree TV is trash and much of the Internet is trash and trouble, but that doesn’t ameliorate the crime Mr. Palmer committed.

And yes, I’m a vegetarian. I get my protein from plant proteins. It’s not only more humane, it’s healthier.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Sure, God gave man dominion over the animals, but not to senselessly kill them for “fun.” To use as needed and to care for and protect.

God told you this, did he?

To use as needed does, in fact, include hunting “for fun”.

And yes, I’m a vegetarian. I get my protein from plant proteins. It’s not only more humane, it’s healthier.

You murder innocent, defenseless plants?! And you call that “humane”?

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Do you believe that Palmer had true joy even before any of this happened to him? If he had never been caught, and went home and continued to enjoy his high salary and whatever lifestyle suited him, would he be a person worth envying?

A lot of people seem particuarly incensed that he was very happy with his life before this incident. I suspect a lot of Zimbabweans would happy trade places, even now that he is subject to stoning by the guardians of propriety.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

People are rude, thoughtless, mean, petty, jealous, and a whole host of other things awful. They take delight in seeing others suffer. Animals don’t do that.

Wrong.

Every evil you find in man you will find also in the animal kingdom. Including cruelty.

You’ve been watching too much Disney.

 

[TK421]

Well yes, cats will play with their prey while it rolls around suffering in adjunct misery. It has no pity on it. The entire animal kingdom is pitiless. Many creatures are designed to eat their own young if the circumstances are right.

This isn’t the fault of the cat though. Cecil is an amoral creature and possesses no supernatural ability to be virtuous or depraved. It is impossible for it to be anything other than what it is. Like all of creation, even in its damaged state, it is good by nature of being crafted by God, although it is not good or evil in so far as having any merit from its actions.

I have no problem with movies that anthropomorphize animals and give them human qualities as a matter of poetic license. Lion King and such are great movies, although I do have to wonder if it doesn’t permanently confuse and distort reality in some people’s lives. Media can indeed have a powerful, almost mind-controlling influence on the human person, so maybe this is no exception.

 

[JimmyG88]

No, hunting is an activity for those who enjoy matching their stamina, skill and reflexes against the superior senses and endurance of a wild animal; of facing the challenge of nature hand-to-hand, as our first human ancestors did to survive.

It won’t make sense to everybody; it is not something I do or really relate to, but neither is Himalayan climbing or downhill skiing.

Yes, the animal dies, but hopefully a clean death, and things die in nature every day.

ICXC NIKA

Well with respect. That’s what I said killing things for pleasure

 

[FollowChrist34]

Simply because love is “really hard” does not disqualify us from having a responsibility for loving others. Jesus said, “Love those who hate you and persecute you.” Those kinds of people would appear even more difficult to find value/dignity in than Palmer, since Palmer has done nothing to you personally, has he?

I think when people destroy things that you value that is not really all that different from doing you harm. Kind of like when the mob goes after your family. Excellent way to destroy people. I am simply being honest: I find this man as repugnant as any that have ever done me harm. I don’t make a distinction there, sorry.

That said, I do recognize the responsibility to love all: Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Obama, the President of Planned Parenthood, abortion doctors, weapons manufacturers.

Animals are subject to human will and are therefore more vulnerable, much like children. We are their stewards, their masters. To me, cruelty to animals is akin to cruelty to children. Particularly horrifying.

I do the best I can with the command to love all…but some of us choose to make that mighty hard.

Sure, atheism looks pretty good as a way of avoiding thinking about, dealing with or confronting the issue at all. That, however, is ALL that it is - a denial or avoidance. It certainly isn’t satisfying in any deep sense.

Sincere atheists such as Camille Paglia recognize that, at least.

salon.com/2015/07/29/camille_paglia_takes_on_jon_stewart_trump_sanders_liberals_think_of_themselves_as_very_open_minded_but_that’s_simply_not_true/

Re atheism: One of the most basic tenets of Christianity, that man was created in God’s image and has a God given dignity, can appear absurd in view of man’s actions and baseness. Ridiculous. I am simply saying that it is far from illogical to conclude that this tenet is false. I am not saying I am an atheist.