Cecil the lion's killer revealed as American dentist

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I’m glad to hear you would accept the verdict. I hope you would also accept Zimbabwe’s determnation not to prosecute were that the case. I’m skeptical that most of the rest of the mob will accept anything less than a hanging because they do not distinguish between poaching and trophy hunting.

The only thing working in Palmer’s favor is the fickleness of the mob. He’ll have to lay low until the mob moves on to another “moral outrage”.
Yes, you’re right, Bubba, he’ll have to lay low. I don’t think he’ll be extradited to Zimbabwe, but i think he should be. I think they would be fair with him. I don’t approve of trophy hunting, I hate to see animals killed, but I do realize herds need thinning at times.

Despite the fact that I don’t approve of what his killing of Cecil, I certainly don’t want to see him physically harmed in any way. So I agree with you, he’ll have to lay low to all blows over.
 
James Allaman is a Baptist why would I look to him for Catholic theology?
Because in this instance what he wrote is totally conversant with Catholic thought. I also quoted Sacred Scripture on the subject.

And Clare, I said I was “finishing up” a MA in theology. I did that and accepted a teaching position. I just don’t come here daily, or ever weekly, so didn’t bother to update my profile. I didn’t know my status in the theological world was going to be so important to so many posters. I, too, am a pianist and a violinist, but I didn’t think anyone would care about that, either. This is a DB for Catholic topics, not musical ones.

This is a thread about Cecil the lion, not me.
 
Because in this instance what he wrote is totally conversant with Catholic thought. I also quoted Sacred Scripture on the subject.

And Clare, I said I was “finishing up” a MA in theology. I did that and accepted a teaching position. I just don’t come here daily, or ever weekly, so didn’t bother to update my profile. I didn’t know my status in the theological world was going to be so important to so many posters. I, too, am a pianist and a violinist, but I didn’t think anyone would care about that, either. This is a DB for Catholic topics, not musical ones.

This is a thread about Cecil the lion, not me.
What are you so angry about?
I said nothing about music.
Your “theological” status is only in this thread because YOU brought it up as some sort of “proof” that you are correct.
Don’t be angry because people recall what you have said in other threads only a few weeks ago.
A poster gets respect based on their words not the letters after their name.
 
Perhaps one might think of hunting as a harvesting?
In the same way that one might harvest grain, killing it for sustenance, or flax for cloth so one might harvest from the animal kingdom (domestic or wild) killing for sustenance or for clothing.
The term “harvesting” is in current vogue but it really doesn’t apply well here.

Aside from pleasure and food, there are two additional related purposes of hunting:
  1. Pest control
  2. Population management
Examples of hunting for pest control include ground sqirrels, coyotes, and wild pigs. (Pigs are good eating but they have exploded in some parts of the US so that all maner of traditional sporting rules are being tossed aside.)

It is particularly important to manage the populations of carnivores such as lions. Africa is not so populated but India frequenly has problems with wild tigers that acquire a taste for human flesh.
 
Yes, you’re right, Bubba, he’ll have to lay low. I don’t think he’ll be extradited to Zimbabwe, but i think he should be. I think they would be fair with him. I don’t approve of trophy hunting, I hate to see animals killed, but I do realize herds need thinning at times.

Despite the fact that I don’t approve of what his killing of Cecil, I certainly don’t want to see him physically harmed in any way. So I agree with you, he’ll have to lay low to all blows over.
I’m glad to hear. I am curious what you would propose to replace trophy hunting as you recongnize the necessity of thinning herds which requires, of course, killing animals.
 
Because in this instance what he wrote is totally conversant with Catholic thought. I also quoted Sacred Scripture on the subject
Just in case you missed this emphasis is mine
MODERATOR NOTICE

This thread is becoming too hostile. Everyone please follow these guidelines:

All posts are to be charitable
Discuss the issues, not each other
If you claim to be stating Church doctrine, provide a link to a doctrinal document otherwise someone may not agree it is a doctrine of the Church

In all cases stay charitable.
He may in your mind be conversant with Church thought but that is merely your opinion.
 
And Clare, I said I was “finishing up” a MA in theology. I did that and accepted a teaching position.
For a person who has made very strong statements about being a “theologian with a MA degree,” something just doesn’t add up. Other posts indicate that you are a student, yet you say here that you teach at a university - which I assume would be difficult while you’re still in a wheel chair and in your 5th year as a student. Do your children drive you to your teaching position, or haven’t you started it yet? I assume it would be part time while you are still a student? Is your expertise in theology related to scripture, sacraments, or morality? Members would like to believe you, but you vacillate constantly, causing us to disbelieve anything else you say.

“Fess” up and help us to understand where you’re coming from, please.
 
I think I am going to be sick. This is the new trend it would appear. More primate fun. :cool: I think the horribly mean over the top animal rights Internet hunters may have a point after all. At least our prey deserves our fury.

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/11779906/American-huntress-sparks-fury-by-posting-selfie-with-dead-giraffe-in-South-Africa.html

Maybe next she can sort human body parts of Planned Parenthood - I hear it’s good money. Can’t wait for the hot photo.
 
Just in case you missed this emphasis is mine

He may in your mind be conversant with Church thought but that is merely your opinion.
Just in case you missed this emphasis is mine

He may in your mind be conversant with Church thought but that is merely your opinion.
No, it is not “merely” my opinion. The entire theology department where I teach agrees and teaches what he writes, and it’s a Roman Catholic university. What Dr. Allman wrote is conversant with Catholic teaching. I teach five days a week, and my lesson plans have been approved by the department head who has two PhDs.

And, you must have missed it, but I also quoted the word of God - Sacred Scripture - Colossions 1:20 and Romans 8. Jesus restored ALL CREATION to God, not just humankind. It was foretold by the prophet Isaiah in Isa 11.6-9. It’s in the Bible, Catholic Bible. It’s not something I pulled from thin air. I’ve given those sources almost since the beginning, so I’ve been following what the moderators want.

It is the OTHERS who have FAILED to support their view that Jesus only restored humankind. They offered NO EVIDENCE but their own opinion. The Moderator Warning, while meant for all, seems to me to apply more to them since they are the ones who offered no evidence whatsoever.

Now, unless you want to argue with the word of God, please drop the subject. This is a thread about Cecil.

Sirach, there is such a thing as “graduation.” I’ve been a TA for some years and upon graduation received a promotion. My specialty is the historical Jesus. I teach Christology courses, primarily, and some NT courses. As one who teaches Christology, I have to be conversant with the Christology of both the HS and the NT. No one drives me anywhere. I live about .05 miles from campus. There also exists such a thing as “physical therapy” and I was in physical therapy for a little more than a year. Last month I switched therapists and medications and do much better. I still ride an exercise bike for two hours each day as part of that physical therapy. I can’t walk long, long distances like I used to , but I’ll work up to it. I did not know my private life needed so much updating on a board that’s not about me. The “Lily Bernans” on Global Penfriends you linked to is NOT ME. There are other people with the name “Lily Bernans,” though I grant it’s not common, however my own mother and grandmother and one of my aunts are named “Lily Bernans.” That is not my age, and the other information is not applicable. I don’t know when I would ever have time to write anyone anything. People can believe me if they want or not believe me. It makes no difference to me and does not impact my life, but this is the last personal question I answer.

To bring the thread back on topic, Bubba, I do believe that Palmer broke the law in Zimbabwe, but if they find that only the guides and the licensing agency were to blame, I think people should lay off Palmer. If he truly didn’t know he was killing a protected animal, then I don’t see how he can be guilty.

I still can’t stand hunting and don’t consider it a sport, but I guess it’s necessary at times to thin the herds. I’m just such a big animal lover and have such a soft spot for them, even the ones that would kill me if I got near. However, I’m also a realist and fair. It’s entirely possible Palmer didn’t know he was killing a protected animal. I didn’t know about Cecil, but then, I’m not a hunter. His death saddens me, but if Palmer is innocent, I certainly don’t want to see an innocent man in prison. Prisons are for the guilty. I’m confident the true facts will come out in the days ahead. The fact that the agency had its license to issue permits revoked says it does bear at least some of the guilt if not all.
 
I think I am going to be sick. This is the new trend it would appear. More primate fun. :cool: I think the horribly mean over the top animal rights Internet hunters may have a point after all. At least our prey deserves our fury.

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/11779906/American-huntress-sparks-fury-by-posting-selfie-with-dead-giraffe-in-South-Africa.html

Maybe next she can sort human body parts of Planned Parenthood - I hear it’s good money. Can’t wait for the hot photo.
PP will probably lose its federal funding, and it’s about time. Well, hopefully they will lose their federal funding:

nydailynews.com/news/politics/senate-vote-halting-federal-aid-planned-parenthood-article-1.2312778

One article says calls for them to lose it are nothing new, so time will tell.
 
I’m glad to hear. I am curious what you would propose to replace trophy hunting as you recongnize the necessity of thinning herds which requires, of course, killing animals.
Bubba, in case my response to you got lost in the furor over me! LOL I’m beginning to see how Palmer feels and the posters here are making me feel sympathy for him. He’s been accused, drawn, and quartered before the facts are in, like me simply because I don’t consider updating my profile here a priority. I’m not a frequent visitor. I don’t have the time now.

Bubba, if if is found that only the guides and the licensing agency were to blame, I think people should lay off Palmer. If he truly didn’t know he was killing a protected animal, then I don’t see how he can be guilty.

I still can’t stand hunting and don’t consider it a sport, but I guess it’s necessary at times to thin the herds. I’m just such a big animal lover and have such a soft spot for them, even the ones that would kill me if I got near. However, I’m also a realist and fair. It’s entirely possible Palmer didn’t know he was killing a protected animal. I didn’t know about Cecil, but then, I’m not a hunter, and I’m one of the few people in the US who’s never seen “The Lion King.” His death saddens me, but if Palmer is innocent, I certainly don’t want to see an innocent man in prison. Prisons are for the guilty. I’m confident the true facts will come out in the days ahead. The fact that the agency had its license to issue permits revoked says it does bear at least some of the guilt if not all.

I mourn Cecil’s death, but I pray for Palmer’s safety. There are a lot of nuts out there who wouldn’t hesitate to harm him. That’s a sad statement about our society, but one that’s true.
 
Christ died to redeem ALL OF CREATION. Period.
Jesus redeemed ALL OF CREATION, not just humankind…

ALL OF CREATION includes Cecil.
*Nicene Creed -

For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.*

He was crucified for our (man’s) sake.
 
*Nicene Creed -

For us men* and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.

He was crucified for our (man’s) sake.
Jesus did do that, but in the Bible, the inspired word of God, it also says that with his death, Jesus restored ALL CREATION to God. All creation, after all, belongs to God.

Sources: Colossions 1:20 and Romans 8. Jesus restored ALL CREATION to God, not just humankind. It was foretold by the prophet Isaiah in Isa 11.6-9.

Colosions 1:20: "…and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Romans 8:21-22: 21 that[a] **the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory **of the children of God.

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

(Bolding mine)

It’s in the Bible. Please stop spreading misinformation. God loves ALL of creation.
 
*Nicene Creed -

For us men* and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.

He was crucified for our (man’s) sake.
In Catholic theology salvation and redemption are not the same.
 
^ I never said that God didn’t love all creation.

But there is a difference between Man, who was created in God’s image,
and the rest of creation (animals and inanimate objects).

For some reason, you don’t seem able or willing to make this simple distinction,
but I am done arguing with you.
 
In Catholic theology salvation and redemption are not the same.
According to this site, the only difference is that salvation is individual and redemption is collective. There really is no theological difference.

catholic.com/quickquestions/what-is-the-difference-between-being-redeemed-and-being-saved

The author speaks of humans since only they are free to reject salvation, but the word of God in Sacred Scripture speaks for itself. Christ redeemed all of creation.

Why do you want lo limit Christ’s salvific work? Don’t you like Christ? I know there ARE atheists on this board.
 
Bubba, in case my response to you got lost in the furor over me! LOL I’m beginning to see how Palmer feels and the posters here are making me feel sympathy for him. He’s been accused, drawn, and quartered before the facts are in, like me simply because I don’t consider updating my profile here a priority. I’m not a frequent visitor. I don’t have the time now.

Bubba, if if is found that only the guides and the licensing agency were to blame, I think people should lay off Palmer. If he truly didn’t know he was killing a protected animal, then I don’t see how he can be guilty.



However, I’m also a realist and fair. It’s entirely possible Palmer didn’t know he was killing a protected animal. I didn’t know about Cecil, but then, I’m not a hunter, and I’m one of the few people in the US who’s never seen “The Lion King.” His death saddens me, but if Palmer is innocent, I certainly don’t want to see an innocent man in prison. Prisons are for the guilty. I’m confident the true facts will come out in the days ahead. The fact that the agency had its license to issue permits revoked says it does bear at least some of the guilt if not all.

I mourn Cecil’s death, but I pray for Palmer’s safety. There are a lot of nuts out there who wouldn’t hesitate to harm him. That’s a sad statement about our society, but one that’s true.
Good words, I hope more will ease off and let the gears of justice grind a bit.
I still can’t stand hunting and don’t consider it a sport, but I guess it’s necessary at times to thin the herds. I’m just such a big animal lover and have such a soft spot for them, even the ones that would kill me if I got near.
Killing wild animals is necessary to wildlife management. It may not be a sport in the sense of intrahuman competition but it is obviously more than just killing animals.

Do you have a soft spot for mosquitos and ticks? For rats and voles? How about rabbits and ground squirrels?
 
According to this site, the only difference is that salvation is individual and redemption is collective. There really is no theological difference.

catholic.com/quickquestions/what-is-the-difference-between-being-redeemed-and-being-saved

The author speaks of humans since only they are free to reject salvation, but the word of God in Sacred Scripture speaks for itself. Christ redeemed all of creation.

Why do you want lo limit Christ’s salvific work? Don’t you like Christ? I know there ARE atheists on this board.
There most certainly IS a difference. Mankind may be saved, in that we might be granted Eternal life.

The base animals may be redeemed, but not saved. Their souls are material and perish when the animal itself perishes.
 
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