Child not getting married in the church

[Ammi]

Ammi:

I could go to a brothel and meet someone I cared about, and talk to her. No intentions to support her sins. Just pray for her.

This does very, very little to prove your point. And it’s absurd. If you want to convince a person to marry in the Church rather than in a secular ceremony, please don’t mention to them the word brothel. It will surely not yield the result you want (deciding to marry in the Church rather than a secular ceremony).

No one’s opinion on this is going to change—the same things are being said over and over. This poor horse was dead fifty posts ago.

I think the problem, is some Catholics are trying to be psychologists. They want to appease the sinner, so they avoid admonishment. They convince themselves that they need to appear like a buddy.

I would never go to a wedding as a psychological maneuver. I’m gonna be honest with them. Just like I’d want them to be honest with me.

And I’m not buying for one second that Catholics are admonishing these couple’s marrying outside the Church.

Also, if either or both of the couple are not free to marry because of a prior marriage, then its adultery, which is no better than a brothel. Perhaps worse, since it’s a type of sacrilege. Asking for God’s blessing on something against His will.

 

[Psalm30]

Once again, this horse was dead fifty posts ago.

But as far as the psychologist thing…sometimes you have to meet people where they’re at, not the way you want to be addressed. Not everyone responds to things the way you do.

 

[Ammi]

Addressing people is not the issue. The issue is attending a wedding you know is not valid, and what is an acceptable way to approach it.

Some in this thread admitted to not thinking a marriage outside the Church is even wrong, and that the Catholics attending dont even care.

That has been ignored.

 

[Psalm30]

You know, this thread is about the OP’s friend and her daughter. What is the right thing to do in this situation.

I just hope the mother doesn’t mention anything about a brothel to her daughter. It won’t likely go over well.

 

[TC3033]

And I’m not buying for one second that Catholics are admonishing these couple’s marrying outside the Church.

OK…That’s your opinion…but there’s a little thing here you’re not picking up, for some reason. It’s the Perception.

If you went to a couple and explained that your church does not believe it is valid, and that even though there is no rule against me not attending…I’m choosing not to anyway… But hey, still love you guys and see you at the reception/gift opening.

Can you see how that can be PERCEIVED as admonishment and why a couple may say. “If you can’t make our wedding, don’t bother with anything else”?

If you can’t see that…then I honestly don’t know what to tell you. This happens all the time…

 

[Ammi]

The perception of support is the other end. You have already expressed that you and other Catholics dont care if these weddings take place outside the Church. You give the perception (and possibly more than just that) of support and approval.

This perception is true scandal to the couple and to all who attend. The perception is that it’s ok. This is a huge perception among Catholics.

 

[TC3033]

You have already expressed that you and other Catholics

I’m not Catholic. I’ve never claimed to be. I told the story of marrying into a Catholic family with 5 kids. Three of the kids were married in the Catholic Church, two weren’t. All the weddings were treated the same and nobody refused attendance to the weddings that weren’t in the Catholic Church.

However, my wife’s grandparents did skip the wedding of one of their children because it was in a Lutheran Church. Since then, that relationship was always strained.

The perception of support is the other end.

This perception is true scandal to the couple and to all who attend. The perception is that it’s ok. This is a huge perception among Catholics.

But the caveat to that is, your church doesn’t have a rule about attending. You could attend but are choosing not to.

 

[Ammi]

Funny thing is, everyone harps “heart of the law”.

Yet you keep saying “there is no law”. But there is a law about marrying outside the Church. I am the last person to judge someone for this. But we also dont want to support and celebrate the sin.

Like the canon article expresses. There are reasons why it’s not a prohibition. Someone might not even know if either the couple is Catholic, or if they received a dispensation.

It becomes a matter of prudent judgment. When you know permission has not been sought, and you know one or both is Catholic, there is a need to avoid giving the impression you are supporting the wedding to the couple and to those witnessing. Also, participation is recommended against.

This is expressed by Catholic Answers apologists and canon lawyers.

 

[TC3033]

Then don’t go…

Like we’ve said, it’s your call, but don’t be surprised if the relationship is hurt, strained or broken.

 

[Ammi]

It’s more than that… IF YOU do go, then you need to make sure the couple knows you are not supporting it. That you are attending (and not participating) in Hope’s that they reconcile.

That is the heart of the matter.

 

[TC3033]

And I guess that’s where we disagree. I’m not Catholic, so it’s not something I’d do, and I don’t think that’s something my family did.

But, if you were to do that and still show up in support of “them”, I think that would go a long way in keeping and even strengthening the relationship.

I think that’s what @Psalm30 was trying to get at.

 

[Ammi]

And I guess that’s where we disagree. I’m not Catholic, so it’s not something I’d do, and I don’t think that’s something my family did.

Well it makes sense if you arent Catholic.

But, if you were to do that and still show up in support of “them”, I think that would go a long way in keeping and even strengthening the relationship.

What are they supporting? Reconciliation with the Church? Then I agree. But it’s a strange notion to attend in Hope’s they reconcile for the ceremony they are participating in.

If you understand this, then it makes alot of sense why not attending is a more accurate way to encourage them to reconcile. I dont see how the couple would rather they attend while praying they reconcile for the ceremony.

 

[TC3033]

Well it makes sense if you arent Catholic.

I also told you of my Catholic family…

What are they supporting?

Their friends (or family) in one of the biggest days of their life, agreement or not. You don’t have to tell anyone that you’re praying the convalidate the marriage, just as long as you’re there for the couple.

If you can’t do that, then it is what it is.

 

[Ammi]

Their friends (or family) in one of the biggest days of their life, agreement or not. You don’t have to tell anyone that you’re praying the convalidate the marriage, just as long as you’re there for the couple.

This is not in line with the heart of Catholic Teaching. If a Catholic who knows the couple is Catholic and are willfully marrying outside the Church, the one attending must make known his reason for attending. Which would be a desire for the couple to reconcile (and have remorse for marrying outside the Church).

In order for the couple to know you dont support the invalidity, you must inform them of that. Otherwise they are under the impression you are supporting it.

 

[TC3033]

the one attending must make known his reason for attending.

Not saying I don’t believe you, but I haven’t heard that. Is that in the catechism?

Otherwise they are under the impression you are supporting it.

Is that your opinion or actual church teaching?

 

[Ammi]

Who is being legalistic now?

You arent looking at the heart of the matter.

 

[TC3033]

The heart of the matter – being there for my family or friend on their big day.

The legalistic – There is nothing “illegal” about attending, however you are putting a stipulation on it that on MUST tell the couple why they won’t / don’t want to attend.

 

[Ammi]

No, I’m saying if one chooses to attend, they must inform the couple it is invalid and they are attending in Hope’s that they reconcile.

An invalid wedding is not “the big day”.

 

[TC3033]

they must

And I asked why? Is there a rule? A law?

An invalid wedding is not “the big day”.

Your opinion. I wouldn’t tell the couple that, but hey, maybe that’s just me.

 

[Ammi]

And I asked why? Is there a rule? A law?

Because the couple will think they are supporting marriage outside the Church (which is invalid, unless the priest and Vicar refused the marriage illegally, and then decided he better afford radical sanation to the thing because he was wrong,).

Your opinion. I wouldn’t tell the couple that, but hey, maybe that’s just me.

The Church only recognizes the marriage valid when convalidated. Invalidity would not be a happy day. You dont believe Catholic Teaching, so why would you see that?

To the Church, invalidity impedes grace!!