T
TC3033
Guest
Like I said… That’s your belief.
It may not be shared by the couple.
It may not be shared by the couple.
- Status
A
Ammi
Guest
No, this wedding reflects more than what is on the surface. A marriage by Catholic, or any Christian, draws on their priestly relationship with God. That relationship, and marriage too, is not only personal, but calls on witnesses.
A
Ammi
Guest
Then they judge wickedly. And so they are leaving the friendship just as they left His Eucharist.
T
TC3033
Guest
And that’s your opinion.
A couple seeing someone skip a wedding (that their church has no rule against attending) may have a similar opinon.
Like I told the OP…that’s a potential outcome…
Couple marries outside the Church. They love each other, make sacrifices for each other, and stay faithful to each other. They have no intention to divorce. They have children and give them all the love and attention they deserve. They teach their children to serve others.
Is it your stance that none of this means anything at all because they are not married in the Church?
Just a simple yes or no will suffice.
Last edited:
A
Ammi
Guest
First of all, how would I know all this at their wedding?
Second, if they do that, and reject His Eucharist, they are still at odds with Jesus and His Church.
Good works dont merit grace.
Third, a happy marriage is a gift. It’s a gift from above. Enjoying the marriage doesnt qualify a Catholic to leave the Church!
Second, if they do that, and reject His Eucharist, they are still at odds with Jesus and His Church.
Good works dont merit grace.
Third, a happy marriage is a gift. It’s a gift from above. Enjoying the marriage doesnt qualify a Catholic to leave the Church!
A
Ammi
Guest
They also teach their children to leave the Church, because the Euchatist doesnt matter.
A
Ammi
Guest
It’s a question that assumes the couple will do just fine leaving the Church, and we can celebrate a ceremony which reflects that.
Oh really?
“I was hungry and you gave Me food…I was thirsty and you gave Me drink…I was a stranger and you welcomed Me…whatsoever you did for the least of My people you did for Me.”
The Good Samaritan.
The woman who washed Jesus’ feet with her hair.
The poor widow who gave all her money.
They have rejected the Eucharist, but they can still live the law of love. It isn’t all or nothing. They may even still love Jesus and worship Him in another church (Protestant).
They likely left the Church before the marriage and would continue to stay away from the Church even if there was no marriage.
Actually the children would not “leave” the Church, they would have never been Catholic to begin with.
So is that a yes or a no?
No actually it isn’t. I want to see if you can forget your all-or-nothing stance and acknowledge that a marriage outside the Church still encompasses elements that are pleasing to God and follow the law of love.
A
Ammi
Guest
These examples neither merit grace, nor do they relate a person who is leaving the Church because of disbelief.
Again, it isnt about judging them either. No judgment needed. Just dont support the ceremony which we dont believe in.
Last edited:
A
Ammi
Guest
Gay marriages or adulterous remarriage probably have good qualities in them too. They may remain faithfull. They may be kind and make sacrifices. They may even be burned at the stake for the other.
A
Ammi
Guest
I’m disappointed you keep implying judgment and that somehow loving your spouse is higher than loving His Eucharist.
One should not mean the other is not necessary. Refraining from attending a marriage opposed to His Eucharist does not judge whether the couple is loving each other or not.
One should not mean the other is not necessary. Refraining from attending a marriage opposed to His Eucharist does not judge whether the couple is loving each other or not.
Not believing in the Eucharist does not equal not loving Jesus in all cases. Jesus is present in the Eucharist but He is also present outside of it. I’m disappointed in your all-or-nothing attitude.
And no, loving your spouse is not “higher” than loving the Eucharist. But marrying in the Church and receiving the Eucharist doesn’t automatically create a loving marriage. You can receive the Eucharist all you want but if your heart is hardened you still aren’t going to live a holy life or have a holy marriage. The sacraments impart grace. We must choose to accept that grace. You don’t seem to want to acknowledge that. This is what I was trying to demonstrate with hypothetical couples A and B. But for some reason you aren’t getting it.
I’m not saying one means the other is not necessary. But it can be acknowledged that a marriage outside the the Church still encompasses love. It’s frustrating that you can’t see that.
Last edited:
A
Ammi
Guest
But I can and do see that. YET, The ceremony reflects an opposition to Christ’s Church and His flesh and blood.
The ceremony and its representation of leaving the Church is what is being refrained from. The relationship is not being rejected.
But if the couple decide to choose to reject the relationship because they demand you celebrate the ceremony, then that is definitely not a higher law!
Your insistence on looking at this as a “higher law” is problematic, because the couple can love each other without rejecting His Eucharist. They dont have to choose one or the other.
When Jesus didnt follow a law, in order to follow a higher law, it’s because He was unable to fulfill both.
Rejecting His Eucharist means deeper issues exist. Other Teachings of Jesus are being rejected too.
Last edited:
If that’s the message you are taking away from what I’m trying to say, you are way, WAY off the mark. Like, not only are you and I not on the same page, we’re not in the same book…or even in the same library. I’m not saying you have to choose one or the other. Preferably you would have both! But some people simply do not agree with Catholicism. They study it, they know what the Church teaches, but they don’t agree with it. However, they still believe in the general concept of marriage—a man and woman vowing to stay together for life.
A
Ammi
Guest
But when you try to apply the “higher law” theology, that is what the higher law means. Refraining from a lesser law, in order to accomplish the higher law.
In a marriage outside the Church, one is not in a situation where they cannot fulfill the lesser law.
You are using a theology which does not apply.
What you seem to think, is that you can compartmentalize the wedding into everything that is good about marriage, and ignore how the wedding represents things that are against the faith and duty of the family.
You therefore create a hypothetical “perfect marriage” and conclude the wedding can be celebrated for just those qualities.
This is problematic, because the wedding also reflects a rejection of His Eucharist, and whatever reasons underlie that rejection. Plus, there is a warning from some that the couple might judge you for not celebrating this wedding with them and reject you!
In a marriage outside the Church, one is not in a situation where they cannot fulfill the lesser law.
You are using a theology which does not apply.
What you seem to think, is that you can compartmentalize the wedding into everything that is good about marriage, and ignore how the wedding represents things that are against the faith and duty of the family.
You therefore create a hypothetical “perfect marriage” and conclude the wedding can be celebrated for just those qualities.
This is problematic, because the wedding also reflects a rejection of His Eucharist, and whatever reasons underlie that rejection. Plus, there is a warning from some that the couple might judge you for not celebrating this wedding with them and reject you!
- Status