Cindy sheehan's Allies

[Lizzie]

gilliam:

. It’s an outpouring of emotion that is part of a scheduled news event organized daily for the television radio and print reporters who crowd in to capture a mother’s grief…

Organizers are set up in this house trailer. Their meetings are closed to reporters.

Leading the group is Fenton Communications employee Michele Mulkey, based in San Francisco. Fenton specializes in public relations for liberal non profits.

Their bills are being paid by True Majority, a non-profit set up by Ben Cohen, of Ben and Jerry’s ice cream fame.

(Excerpt) Read more at abclocal.go.com …

We will never get out of Iraq as long as these folks dominate the media with their pretend but subversive goals.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

Cindy Sheehan has been accused of involvement with the “left.” Catholics should evaluate this accusation with caution and discernment.

This citation will explain my statement:

"If an economic order is to be created which is genuine and universal, there must be an abolition of excessive desire for profit, nationalistic pretensions, the lust for political domination, militaristic thinking, and intrigues designed to spread and impose ideologies."

In the above quotation, the following “leftist” substitutions could be made:

1. **“Capitalism” ** could replace “excessive desire for profit.”
2. "Jingoism," “chauvinism,” or **“racism” ** could replace “nationalistic pretensions.”
3. **“Imperialism” ** could replace “lust for political domination” and “intrigues designed to spread and impose ideologies.”
4. **“Militarism” ** could replace “militaristic thinking.”

Now I ask you: who made the statement I’ve quoted? Cindy Sheehan? Karl Marx? Vladimir Ilyich Lenin? Michael Moore?

I hope you’re prepared for the correct answer. (I’ll give you a bit of time to prepare by forcing you to scroll down a bit. Some of you may wish to drink an ice-cold glass of Harvey’s Bristol Cream before you read the answer. )

O.K., the correct answer is that this statement was made, not by Cindy Sheehan, Karl Marx, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, or Michael Moore, but instead by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. It appears in the Vatican II document Gaudium et spes, section 85.

So, my next question is this: just how far to the “left” is Cindy Sheehan? But we should also ask: just how far to the “left” is the Catholic Church?

The Vatican II quotation is another indication of the extent to which serious Catholics must transcend the “left”/“right” dichotomy–to use a fancy word–to say nothing of the U.S. political charade known as the “two-party system” (which is really one party controlled by the plutocracy).

By the way, I’ve found a wonderful quotation from St. Louis of France, whose feast day was yesterday:

***“Always side with the poor rather than with the rich, until you are certain of the truth.” ***

Who gave us the U.S.-British invasion and occupation of Iraq, with all the deaths and maimings that they’ve caused? The working class and the poor in the United States and Britain? Or the moneyed élites of both countries?

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[geezerbob]

If you’re going to replace words in the document, essentially rewriting it, I suppose you could make it say anything you want.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

geezerbob:

If you’re going to replace words in the document, essentially rewriting it, I suppose you could make it say anything you want.

Please. I haven’t “rewritten” (by which you mean “distorted”) the *Gaudium et spes * passage at all. Any informed, honest reader ought to admit that Vatican II was rejecting the greed that characterizes capitalism. The Church was also reproving jingoism, chauvinism, racism, imperialism, and militarism.

The Pope and the bishops of Vatican II were clearly using verbal formulations signifying exactly the same phenomena that “lefties” assail in blunter terms. In one case–that of militarism–the council came right out and used the word, but as an adjective instead of a noun: “militaristic thinking” (in Latin: calculi ordinis militaristici).

Let me put it this way: could Rush Limbaugh could have written the passage that I cited from Vatican II?

I could fill post after post with other *Gaudium et spes * excerpts paralleling material that can be read every day in the publications of the “left.” I could do the same thing with a long catena of passages from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Why are Catholics–especially those who get all bent out of shape when Cindy Sheehan uses the word “imperialism”–blissfully unaware of these “leftist” echoes in official Catholic socioeconomic teachings? Because they refuse to read the documents of the Magisterium, as if it were a mortal sin to do so.

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

In the third paragraph of my last post, I meant to write this: “Let me put it this way: could Rush Limbaugh have written the passage that I cited from Vatican II?”

Here’s another awesome Vatican II passage, this time on the need to cooperate with everyone (even “lefties”) to oppose unjust wars and nuclear devastation:

**“Consequently, as it points out the authentic and most noble meaning of peace and condemns the frightfulness of war, this Council fervently desires to summon Christians to cooperate with all men and women in making secure among themselves a peace based on justice and love, and in setting up agencies of peace. This Christians should do with the help of Christ, the Author of peace” (Gaudium et spes, section 77).

The council, of course, did not intend to exclude the urgent message of Our Lady of Fatima as a means of achieving peace, for Christ wants us to work for this goal through devotion to the Immaculate Heart of his Mother.

Here’s the best site on Our Lady of Fatima:

fatima.org/

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[estesbob]

Steve O'Brien:

O.K., the correct answer is that this statement was made, not by Cindy Sheehan, Karl Marx, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, or Michael Moore, but instead by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. It appears in the Vatican II document Gaudium et spes, section 85.

But of course you werent satisfied with the statement as it was made so you changed it to reflect your views and now want to pass it off as Church Teachings. You do that a lot, Steve. In another thread you even told us what John Paul the Great was really thinking and lo and behold he was thinking exactly what you were thinking!

There are a lot of valid objections to the war and men of good faith can disagree with each other over it. However you seem desperate to support your anit-war views by claiming it is the view of the Church. That simply is not true. If it were you wouldnt have to read John Paul the Great’s mind or change Church statements to fit your views-you would just post the Church’s explicit condemenation of this war as an unjust war. you dont do this becuase the Church has never done so.

 

[Marie]

Steve O'Brien:

The council, of course, did not intend to exclude the urgent message of Our Lady of Fatima as a means of achieving peace, for Christ wants us to work for this goal through devotion to the Immaculate Heart of his Mother.

Here’s the best site on Our Lady of Fatima:

fatima.org/

Keep and spread the Faith.

Not exactly a steller Catholic website for information on any subject of the faith or Fatima itself for that matter. Thanks anyway.

 

[Brad]

Steve O'Brien:

Cindy Sheehan has been accused of involvement with the “left.” Catholics should evaluate this accusation with caution and discernment.

This citation will explain my statement:

"If an economic order is to be created which is genuine and universal, there must be an abolition of excessive desire for profit, nationalistic pretensions, the lust for political domination, militaristic thinking, and intrigues designed to spread and impose ideologies."

In the above quotation, the following “leftist” substitutions could be made:

1. **“Capitalism” ** could replace “excessive desire for profit.”
2. "Jingoism," “chauvinism,” or **“racism” ** could replace “nationalistic pretensions.”
3. **“Imperialism” ** could replace “lust for political domination” and “intrigues designed to spread and impose ideologies.”
4. **“Militarism” ** could replace “militaristic thinking.”

Now I ask you: who made the statement I’ve quoted? Cindy Sheehan? Karl Marx? Vladimir Ilyich Lenin? Michael Moore?

I hope you’re prepared for the correct answer. (I’ll give you a bit of time to prepare by forcing you to scroll down a bit. Some of you may wish to drink an ice-cold glass of Harvey’s Bristol Cream before you read the answer. )

O.K., the correct answer is that this statement was made, not by Cindy Sheehan, Karl Marx, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, or Michael Moore, but instead by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. It appears in the Vatican II document Gaudium et spes, section 85.

So, my next question is this: just how far to the “left” is Cindy Sheehan? But we should also ask: just how far to the “left” is the Catholic Church?

The Vatican II quotation is another indication of the extent to which serious Catholics must transcend the “left”/“right” dichotomy–to use a fancy word–to say nothing of the U.S. political charade known as the “two-party system” (which is really one party controlled by the plutocracy).

By the way, I’ve found a wonderful quotation from St. Louis of France, whose feast day was yesterday:

***“Always side with the poor rather than with the rich, until you are certain of the truth.” ***

Who gave us the U.S.-British invasion and occupation of Iraq, with all the deaths and maimings that they’ve caused? The working class and the poor in the United States and Britain? Or the moneyed élites of both countries?

Keep and spread the Faith.

Capitalism does not mean “excessive desire for profit”. (By the way, how do you earn your living?).

And the other 3 terms are not applicable to the United States except in the forged “realities” of narrow thinkers.

 

[Brad]

Steve O'Brien:

Please. I haven’t “rewritten” (by which you mean “distorted”) the *Gaudium et spes * passage at all. Any informed, honest reader ought to admit that Vatican II was rejecting the greed that characterizes capitalism. The Church was also reproving jingoism, chauvinism, racism, imperialism, and militarism.

There are zero Church documents that codemn capitalism and many that highly condone the right to private ownership. Your definition of capitalism is not that of the Church or the dictionary.

 

[Cathlicrat]

Syn kobiety:

How do you reconcile Bush’s actions with Catholic Teaching?

My family and I cannot.

We were also just blessed about an hour ago while watching “Dayside” on Fox News…actually 2 blessings…seems the tide is turning thanks to Cindys movement and even Foxs Dayside is now slowly daring to say that the war is being mismanaged! Our jaws dropped at this awesome new turn of events on a Fox Show! All thanks to the Cindy Sheehan Movement which is gaining steam. It is now bigger than her! :clapping:

The second blessing is that we seen our donations to the Gold Star Moms put to awesome use!

During a commercial break we actually seen a Cindy Sheehan Commercial accusing Bush of misleading us into war and further hurting our troops by mismanaging them! …the ad was paid for by The Gold Star Moms! Seeing what you support financially put into righteous activism is an incredible “high”!

…and on the Fox Network no less!

Praise & Glory!

 

[estesbob]

Cathlicrat:

My family and I cannot.

We were also just blessed about an hour ago while watching “Dayside” on Fox News…actually 2 blessings…seems the tide is turning thanks to Cindys movement and even Foxs Dayside is now slowly daring to say that the war is being mismanaged! Our jaws dropped at this awesome new turn of events on a Fox Show! All thanks to the Cindy Sheehan Movement which is gaining steam. It is now bigger than her! :clapping:

The second blessing is that we seen our donations to the Gold Star Moms put to awesome use!

Praise & Glory!

You must have watched a different “Dayside” than I did. And please be careful not to smear “Gold Star Mothers” the way you just did. Gold Star Mothers is an organization that was chartered in 1924, supports the War in Iraq and supports the troops. They are livid that the Sheeniacs co-opted their name.

Only about a third of those polled agrere with the Sheeniacs that the United States should withdraw our troops from Iraq. If this is “sucess” you are in big trouble!

 

[Marie]

Cathlicrat:

The Gold Star Moms! Seeing what you support financially put into righteous activism is an incredible “high”!

…and on the Fox Network no less!

Praise & Glory!

Actually…It was not paid for by THE GOLD STAR MOM"S. Cindy, less than upright and honest about anything, is using it as part of her nutso organization. Scuse me…we have several Gold Star (real one’s) in the REAL organization and Gold Star Mom’s DO NOT SUPPORT CINDY. Check out the official website. They have posted a disclaimer due to the fruitcake using the term.

They don’t appreciate it and my Gold Star family members would like to have her over and curl her hair for her.

Gold Star Mothers
Gold Star Mothers:

Cindy Sheehan is currently in the news. She and her organization have no connection whatever with American Gold Star Mothers, Inc.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

Brad:

There are zero Church documents that condemn capitalism and many that highly condone the right to private ownership. Your definition of capitalism is not that of the Church or the dictionary.

On the contrary, I’ve already cited a Church document that condemns the greed and materialism that saturate capitalism: Gaudium et spes, which denounces the “excessive desire for profit” (section 85).

I could also have cited the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which, after condemning the totalitarianism and atheism associated with communism and socialism, instructs us as follows in this key passage:

***"She [the Church] has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of ‘capitalism,’ individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor [John Paul II’s encyclical Centesimus annus is cited here]. Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds; regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for ‘there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market’ *Centesimus annus]. Reasonable regulation of the marketplace and economic initiatives, in keeping with a just hierarchy of values and a view to the common good, is to be commended" (section 2425).

In the above passage, please note how the Catholic Church defines capitalism.

I could also have appealed to the teaching of the Apostle Paul:

***“Indeed, religion with contentment is a great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, just as we shall not be able to take anything out of it. If we have food and clothing, we shall be content with that. Those who want to be rich are falling into temptation and into a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires, which plunge them into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all evils, and some people in their desire for it have strayed from the faith and have pierced themselves with many pains” (*1 Tim 6:6-10; 1986 NAB).

Above all, I could have cited the words of Our Lord:

***“Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God” (*Mt 19:24; 1986 NAB).

***“You cannot serve God and mammon” (*Mt 6:24; 1986 NAB).

Again, it was the rich, not the working class and the poor, who gave us the war in Iraq.

Keep and spread the Faith.*

 

[vern_humphrey]

Marie:

Actually…It was not paid for by THE GOLD STAR MOM"S. Cindy, less than upright and honest about anything, is using it as part of her nutso organization. Scuse me…we have several Gold Star (real one’s) in the REAL organization and Gold Star Mom’s DO NOT SUPPORT CINDY. Check out the official website. They have posted a disclaimer due to the fruitcake using the term.

From the American Gold Star Mothers goldstarmoms.com/agsm/Home/

Cindy Sheehan is currently in the news. She and her organization have no connection whatever with American Gold Star Mothers, Inc. We are a 501 C(3) organization and, as such, do not engage in political activities. We do support our troops. After all, they are our children.

I would suggest they have adequate grounds to sue her.

She’s really gone over the edge, calling terrorists “freedom fighters” and trying to link the Isaeli-Palestinian conflict to our War on Terror.

 

[Marie]

vern humphrey:

From the American Gold Star Mothers goldstarmoms.com/agsm/Home/

I would suggest they have adequate grounds to sue her.

She’s really gone over the edge, calling terrorists “freedom fighters” and trying to link the Isaeli-Palestinian conflict to our War on Terror.

I will certainly donate to the fund to sue her. And even paint more Gold Star emblems for those who are true Gold Star Mom’s.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Marie:

I will certainly donate to the fund to sue her. And even paint more Gold Star emblems for those who are true Gold Star Mom’s.

I’d think you could find deep pockets among those who associate with her. Surely some lawyer would take this on.

 

[Marie]

vern humphrey:

I’d think you could find deep pockets among those who associate with her. Surely some lawyer would take this on.

Yes, we have 2000 current members, so a nice class action law suit would work well for some decent lawyer. And we could enjoy emptying their pockets for the insult. I am sure the money will go to actual good causes.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Marie:

I will certainly donate to the fund to sue her. And even paint more Gold Star emblems for those who are true Gold Star Mom’s.

Any way you can contact the Gold Star Moms, Marie? I think it is a good idea to take this to court and clear the air. It is not about freedom of speech. Freedom of speech has limits on it. This is about boundaries. Sheehan violated the boundaries of our war dead. She appropriated their good name for a cause they did not support.

 

[Marie]

Ani Ibi:

Any way you can contact the Gold Star Moms, Marie? I think it is a good idea to take this to court and clear the air. It is not about freedom of speech. Freedom of speech has limits on it. This is about boundaries. Sheehan violated the boundaries of our war dead. She appropriated their good name for a cause they did not support.

Good idea. I’ll see what I can find.

 

[wabrams]

On some other threads, gilliam, Vern, and Hagia Sophia were bashed for saying that protesters were giving aid and comfort to the enemy. This sure vindicates them.

So a handful of groups go off the deep end and every protester gets thrown into that category?