Concept of hell

[tonyrey]

Let me ask you this: Do you believe that the catholic church is the one true church? Do you believe that the pope is the vicar of Christ on earth? Do you believe that the church teachings on faith and morals are infallible and the true word of god? Do you believe that when the pope teaches on faith and morals he teaches infallibly and is speaking “in persona Christi”?

The Catholic Church is the only Church with an unbroken succession of Bishops of Rome since St Peter. The Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth because He chose St Peter: “You are Peter and on this rock I shall build my Church”. It would be absurd if the Pope’s teaching on faith and morals ex cathedra were false. Since the teaching of the Church on faith and morals is based on the teaching of Christ it must be true but the detailed interpretation and application of moral principles is not infallible, e.g. the question of contraception.

 

[PennitentMan]

Wow….we kinda drifted from the topic of “The concept of Hell” quite dramatically, eh? I’ll have to see where we left the actual thread off and see if we can pick it up. LOL!

 

[PennitentMan]

The Catholic Church is the only Church with an unbroken succession of Bishops of Rome since St Peter.
The Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth because He chose St Peter: “You are Peter and on this rock I shall build my Church”.

Yup, that’s what the church teaches.

It would be absurd if the Pope’s teaching on faith and morals ex cathedra were false.

Now we see eye to eye!

Since the teaching of the Church on faith and morals is based on the teaching of Christ it must be true but the detailed interpretation and application of moral principles is not infallible, e.g. the question of contraception.

That’s a leap, since I doubt whether you can prove that it’s based on the teachings of Christ. Even if you can, I’m not subscribing to it since I don’t believe in it in its entirety.

But then, we get back to the original thread title about the concept of hell. God created hell for souls that disobeys his commands (even though these commands are just hearsay…aka. Tradition).

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I call’em as I see’em.
We are to judge a person’s fruits and the fruits he has born are faithlessness and bitterness.

Pardon you, God’s job is to judge Who died and left you boss?How can you judge someone who’s heart you will never know? God is the searcher of the heart, i dont know why you are so bitter? Your not beating your kids are you? God Bless Nancy

 

[PennitentMan]

Pardon you, God’s job is to judge Who died and left you boss?How can you judge someone who’s heart you will never know? God is the searcher of the heart, i dont know why you are so bitter? Your not beating your kids are you? God Bless Nancy

I LOL’ed at that one Nancy….I also thought that he sounded really bitter, like he’s angry at anyone who isn’t as “hardcore” as he is (judging by his religious status).

But it’s okay, if he wants to judge me, he can go ahead. It won’t matter to me, I couldn’t care less about his judgments.

 

[elvisman]

Pardon you, God’s job is to judge Who died and left you boss?How can you judge someone who’s heart you will never know? God is the searcher of the heart, i dont know why you are so bitter? Your not beating your kids are you? God Bless Nancy

Wrong, Nancy.
We ARE called upon to judge what is right and what is wrong.
I never judged anybody’s heart, as you have accused me - only their fruits as we are called to do.

The following verses speak loudly to this:
Galatians 6:1
Matthew 7:6
2 Peter 2:21-22
Matthew 15:14
Acts 18:5-6
2 Thessalonians 3:6
Ephesians 5:11
John 7:24
Luke 7:42-43
1 Corinthians 10:15
1 John 4:1-2
Matthew 7:15-16
1 John 2:22-23

 

[elvisman]

I LOL’ed at that one Nancy….I also thought that he sounded really bitter, like he’s angry at anyone who isn’t as “hardcore” as he is (judging by his religious status).

But it’s okay, if he wants to judge me, he can go ahead. It won’t matter to me, I couldn’t care less about his judgments.

Once again - I seem to be the victim of false accusations.

I judge your fruits (words/actions) as I am commanded to do.
I don’t judge hearts. Only God can do that.
I’m not bitter - on the contrary. I’m very happy in the Lord - not a whiner like you have shown to be - blaming him for all of your misfortune, yet claiming to not believe in him.

You’re a walking contradiction. Can’t blame God if you don’t believe in him.

 

[PennitentMan]

I’m not bitter - on the contrary. I’m very happy in the Lord

Really? Maybe “happy in the lord” and just plain ol’ “happy” are two different things, cuz you seem quite angry, dude.

not a whiner like you have shown to be - blaming him for all of your misfortune, yet claiming to not believe in him.

You’re a walking contradiction. Can’t blame God if you don’t believe in him.

Umm, did I ever say that I believe in god? Nope. I said that I don’t believe in him but if I did, I had a bone to pick with him…otherwise my beef is with the church for getting me to believe what they teach.
That’s kinda what the term Agnostic means, ya know?

It seems as if you last little attempt at aggression before home-time is failing, dude.

 

[elvisman]

Really? Maybe “happy in the lord” and just plain ol’ “happy” are two different things, cuz you seem quite angry, dude.

Umm, did I ever say that I believe in god? Nope. I said that I don’t believe in him but if I did, I had a bone to pick with him…otherwise my beef is with the church for getting me to believe what they teach.
That’s kinda what the term Agnostic means, ya know?

It seems as if you last little attempt at aggression before home-time is failing, dude.

"The Church made me do it"?
That’s a new one!

Ummm . . read Acts 9:4-5.
**You’ll see that Jesus equates his very self with the Church. **
You can’t seperate them - He’s the head and we’re the Body.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

HI Elvis, I looked up all your scripture Thank you Heres what i found as far as judgeing.
MATH 7:6 Does not say to correct them or condem antone. just not to cast your pearls.
MATH 7:15 Nothing about judging anyone.
MATH 15:14 Leave them for they are blind guides, no judge or condem
Gal. 6:1 RESTORE HIM GENTLY IF CAUGHT IN SIN.
2Peter 2:21-22 A dog returns to his vomit a sow to the mud (I agree)
ACTS 18: 5-6 Paul shook his clothes and said “Your blood is on your own head” and went to teach the Gentiles.
2Thes. 3:6 Stay away!
Eph> 5:11Have nothing to do with the deeds of darkness Expose them! I agree, but with love.
1st Cor. 10:15 nothing about judging.
John 7:24 the topic was Judgeing who the Christ was"Stop judging by mere appearence Make a rioght judgement.
Luke 7:42-43 Was asking Simon about money
1John 4:1-2 Test the spirits wether they come from god or not Be watchful nothing about Condem or judgeing them watch for the ANTI CHRIST
1John 2: 22-23 To call him a liar is OK for he has not the Father in him If he dosnet have the Son he has not the Father Nothing about judgeing others. You know they are liars because it is against what Jesus taught,you can call anyone a liar who denounces the Lord God. I agree. thank you love of Christ Nancy pS I did do my homework.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

ElvisMan do not laugh at people, how many souls have you won for the Lord? Love counquers all sin. You are loved Nancy

 

[wlychan64]

After reading your story - I realize that my earlier depictions of your being a whiner are substantiated.

*First of all - your problem was not that god abandoned you or that he doesn’t exist. It’s that ***you didn’t trust God at all.
When Sarah became pregnant with Isaac – she and Abraham were shocked because of her age. She was most probably post-menopausal (well into her 70’s) but they saw the child as a gift from God.
Unfortunately, you see them as punishments – like our illustrious President does.

---

**Secondly – you misrepresent **the Church on many levels. You say that Papal infallibility is a new teaching because it was proclaimed dogma in the 19th century. What you don’t understand is the when a belief is proclaimed dogma – it doesn’t mean that it is a new revelation. It means that it is officially proclaimed because of a heresy, abuse or schism.
It is something that the Church has always taught but feels should be officially proclaimed for one of those reasons.

---

You say that if you faltered in any area, the Church claims that you would be damned to hell unless you went to confession. This is TOTALLY false. The church teaches that only mortal sin and impenitence would be the cause for eternal damnation. Simply “faltering” or even “venial sin” is not the cause of eternal damnation.

---

You claimed you prayed to God to strengthen your faith – AFTER deciding to go back to contraception and God didn’t answer your prayers. You were in mortal sin and impenitent, and couldn’t understand why God wasn’t helping you. You can’t have it both ways. You must believe on GOD’S terms – not yours. You cut yourself off from him, yet blamed him because he didn’t answer your prayers.

---

Finally, your attack on the Scriptures is not only an old one – it’s inaccurate.
There is no “proof” that Mark’s Gospel is the first. Many scholars believe it was Matthew’s because of its obvious use of Aramaic and not Greek. Eusebius, who did not have the final word anyway, so your comments on Eusebius are moot.

---

**Your entire saga begins with a superficial **understanding of the Church and ends with a tragic lack of faith. Like I said before – blame yourself – not God.

I have just started to attend to this thread.

Could you share with me from your firm belief and faith in Our Lord that what I can do when I feel that HE has listened to my prayer but despite of the efforts I have made, the matter that worries me remains unchanged? a very vague questoin for your view

thanks
wlychan64

 

[tonyrey]

God created hell for souls that disobeys his commands (even though these commands are just hearsay…aka. Tradition).

God didn’t create hell. We create it ourselves.

Life is what we make it. We can see bars or stars:dancing:

 

[elvisman]

I have just started to attend to this thread.

Could you share with me from your firm belief and faith in Our Lord that what I can do when I feel that HE has listened to my prayer but despite of the efforts I have made, the matter that worries me remains unchanged? a very vague questoin for your view

thanks
wlychan64

Sorry - I just don’t understand the question.
I’d be more than happy to address if you reword it.

 

[elvisman]

ElvisMan do not laugh at people, how many souls have you won for the Lord? Love counquers all sin. You are loved Nancy

I’m not laughuing at anybody.
I’m laughing at the absurdity of his comments.

 

[PennitentMan]

"The Church made me do it"?
That’s a new one!

Ummm . . read Acts 9:4-5.
**You’ll see that Jesus equates his very self **with the Church.
**You can’t **seperate them - He’s the head and we’re the Body.

Dude, if that’s a new one I wonder how new you are at this “catholic” thing

Okay, let me try to explain it so that even you can understand where I’m coming from:

Yes, that’s what the church teaches…but for someone that doesn’t believe that there is a god, he doesn’t come into the equasion now does he? Mmmkay?

 

[elvisman]

HI Elvis, I looked up all your scripture Thank you Heres what i found as far as judgeing.
MATH 7:6 Does not say to correct them or condem antone. just not to cast your pearls.
MATH 7:15 Nothing about judging anyone.
MATH 15:14 Leave them for they are blind guides, no judge or condem
Gal. 6:1 RESTORE HIM GENTLY IF CAUGHT IN SIN.
2Peter 2:21-22 A dog returns to his vomit a sow to the mud (I agree)
ACTS 18: 5-6 Paul shook his clothes and said “Your blood is on your own head” and went to teach the Gentiles.
2Thes. 3:6 Stay away!
Eph> 5:11Have nothing to do with the deeds of darkness Expose them! I agree, but with love.
1st Cor. 10:15 nothing about judging.
John 7:24 the topic was Judgeing who the Christ was"Stop judging by mere appearence Make a rioght judgement.
Luke 7:42-43 Was asking Simon about money
1John 4:1-2 Test the spirits wether they come from god or not Be watchful nothing about Condem or judgeing them watch for the ANTI CHRIST
1John 2: 22-23 To call him a liar is OK for he has not the Father in him If he dosnet have the Son he has not the Father Nothing about judgeing others. You know they are liars because it is against what Jesus taught,you can call anyone a liar who denounces the Lord God. I agree. thank you love of Christ Nancy pS I did do my homework.

Nancy -
All of these passages have to do with judging and discerning when read in context.

 

[elvisman]

Dude, if that’s a new one I wonder how new you are at this “catholic” thing

Okay, let me try to explain it so that even you can understand where I’m coming from:

Yes, that’s what the church teaches…but for someone that doesn’t believe that there is a god, he doesn’t come into the equasion now does he? Mmmkay?

He IS the equation.
You’re the one who came on this post denouncing Him because things just didn’t go your way. You said over and over how He let you down via his Church.
Okay? Uhhh . . . "dude"?

 

[PennitentMan]

He IS the equation.
You’re the one who came on this post denouncing Him because things just didn’t go your way. You said over and over how He let you down via his Church.
Okay? Uhhh . . . “dude”?

Wow, last night’s sleep didn’t do you any good, did it? You are even more angry at us heathens today! LOL!

Yeah, when I still believed in him he let me down which increased the proof that he’s not really there. From where I am now, he’s no existent, doesn’t feature and the church is a bunch of men subscribing their views onto other people.

This is degenerating into a “he said, I said” thing already…if you have anything positive or even coherent to contribute to the discussion, please do so, otherwise, don’t bother.
We’re talking about the concept of hell, the punishment of concupiscence and the effects thereof. Just as a reminder.

 

[elvisman]

Wow, last night’s sleep didn’t do you any good, did it? You are even more angry at us heathens today! LOL!

Yeah, when I still believed in him he let me down which increased the proof that he’s not really there. From where I am now, he’s no existent, doesn’t feature and the church is a bunch of men subscribing their views onto other people.

This is degenerating into a “he said, I said” thing already…if you have anything positive or even coherent to contribute to the discussion, please do so, otherwise, don’t bother.
We’re talking about the concept of hell, the punishment of concupiscence and the effects thereof. Just as a reminder.

**Thanks - had a great sleep!

I think you’re absolutely right about the discussion. It’s time to shake the proverbial dust from my shoes as commanded by the Lord when a person refuses to hear (Matt. 10:14, Mark 6:11, Luke 9:5).

See you on the forums . . .