Connecticut school shooting: Lawmakers offer prayers amid calls for gun control

[EmperorNapoleon]

Fortunately, the U.S. Supreme Court disagrees with Mr. Howard’s interpretation of the U.S.Constitution.

I think the Supreme Court will eventually apply its own standard of interpreting intent. The United States was never supposed to have a standing army so the people, when necessary, were the military and because the Congress was flat broke you were expected to provide your own gun and munitions. This is a dated concept from a radical age. We have a standing army, we have a militia (National Guard), and we don’t need a society of vigilantes anymore.

I don’t believe in total abolition of private gun ownership but there needs to be stronger regulations in both acquisition and retention of guns. When the people start abusing the second amendment then there needs to be an adequate legal response to it in the form of tough regulations and enforcement. Especially when the public safety is at risk. I don’t accept that the slaughter of 18 children is just a price we have to pay so Billy Joe Bob can blow holes in beer cans.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Guns that Ryan Lanza took to the school were legally registered and owned by his mother. How could a strict gun control law stopped him from getting those guns? No matter what background check there is or gun control law, somebody can steal guns from someone else

 

[Geist]

The fact these massacres occur in “gun free zones” speaks volumes about how tighter gun laws would help the situation.

My school was also a “drug free zone”…guess how well that worked?

 

[BroomWagon]

uscatholic.org/news/2011/01/gun-control-church-firmly-quietly-opposes-firearms-civilians

Here is one article purporting to show the Church’s views on gun control.

 

[Geist]

I think the Supreme Court will eventually apply its own standard of interpreting intent. The United States was never supposed to have a standing army so the people, when necessary, were the military and because the Congress was flat broke you were expected to provide your own gun and munitions. This is a dated concept from a radical age. We have a standing army, we have a militia (National Guard), and we don’t need a society of vigilantes anymore.

I don’t believe in total abolition of private gun ownership but there needs to be stronger regulations in both acquisition and retention of guns. When the people start abusing the second amendment then there needs to be an adequate legal response to it in the form of tough regulations and enforcement. Especially when the public safety is at risk. I don’t accept that the slaughter of 18 children is just a price we have to pay so Billy Joe Bob can blow holes in beer cans.

Your interpretation of our Constitution is way off.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

One of they words is a “free state”, the other key is “shall not be infringed”.

The 2A is NOT about hunting or even self-defense, its intent was have an armed populace to serve as a check on tyranny. THAT is why anti-freedom types have been after it for years.

The definition of a police state is a state in which only the police have weapons.

 

[BroomWagon]

The fact these massacres occur in “gun free zones” speaks volumes about how tighter gun laws would help the situation.

My school was also a “drug free zone”…guess how well that worked?

The Fort Hood Massacre occurred in Texas but those soldiers sadly did not have guns to defend themselves.

So this really is a double-edged issue.

Of course, the case in CT. is sad that once the perpetrator got in, there probably was not that much that could be done.

 

[JustaServant]

Reading through the comments thus far it seems that several factors have been identified as potentially to blame for this crime: the gun, drugs, the young man’s environment, etc.

These may all be contributing factors (although the elites still have not come to terms with the fact that we are never going to give up our guns regardless of how many of these tragedies they exploit), but at the end of the day, there were two culprits: this young man’s free will and the Devil.

Today’s society increasingly does not take seriously the reality of Hell. That is to be expected given that increasing numbers no longer believe in God and in fact many are shifting from rejecting Him to challenging Him.

I think it was at an apparition in Germany in the 1930’s that Our Blessed Mother warned us that society was worse off than just prior to the Deluge. I always thought that that warning applied to the tyrants of that time (and indeed it did) but looking at our sex-addicted and violence-saturated culture today, I think that Our Lady’s warnings are more relevant than ever. I think at Fatima and Akita she warned that if society keeps misbehaving we are in for a chastisement of fire. Every time one of these shootings gets publicity I am reminded of the lack of publicity given to the daily, much worse abortion holocaust.

 

[Jessup]

america has the highest rate of gun crime out of the 23 richest nations! thats proof enough taht its time to ban guns

 Those statistics are so skewed , I'd like to see the population samples, the null hypothesis, and the frequency.

Comparing the USA crime to a country like England, or Japan would be hard pressed considering we are spread out and have the multitudes of backgrounds per state.
I can’t imagine writing your hypothesis in regards to Washington D.C. in comparison to Montana, all to be measured against Italy or Spain.
Those numbers are fear factory propaganda machines used for political agenda against soccer moms and people who have little exposure to statistics and mathematics.
The same thing was said about the USA having the lowest production of engineers and scientist in the world in comparison to other countries.
Most likely they where written by the U.N., Rosy Odonnell, or Micheal Moore.

 

[liturgyluver]

In some ways it is pity - but completely understandable - that the debate on gun control is prompted by tragic events such as these.

When you consider, as one of the links I posted earlier, there is a wider issue:

In the US, the total of firearm homicides in 2011 was eleven thousand, one hundred and one, and this year is on track to be even higher. Look at it this way: if the Connecticut attack was the only shooting yesterday, then the day’s death toll would actually be below the US average. More people die from firearm homicide every year than the total number of US military casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001. More than twice as many people die from firearm homicide as in 11 September and Pearl Harbour combined. 31 people every day die on average from a firearm-related homicide. This doesn’t count accidental deaths. Just murder.

The real tragedy is that it seems that gun-related deaths in the US are just business as usual and surely part of the debate must be about whether gun control might just reduce the number of deaths in this category as well as the more shocking events that hit the headlines.

I hope the voices of reason are able to rise above the toxic hold that the gun lobby seems to hold so that there can at least be rational discussion about what might be the best way forward.

 

[Jessup]

In your enthusiastic defence of guns, you forgot to post what the US Bishops wrote advocating a total elimination of guns in society.

 What about the right to self defense? My home has been kept safe on occasion from the threat of the local pill heads stealing and robbing as my brother would pal around with them getting high 24/7. They would start to lurk onto the property here;

After they stated they would not BLANK with my house because they didn’t want to get shot up.

 

[Jessup]

uscatholic.org/news/2011/01/gun-control-church-firmly-quietly-opposes-firearms-civilians

Here is one article purporting to show the Church’s views on gun control.

 If that's the case then I'm in the wrong church. So quickly being that the church is ran from Europe; they forget about the Gypsie Catholics hauled into cattle cars along with the Jews, mentally disabled and "mud people"

The very idea that the Vatican has compassion for the U.N. Security council small arms treaty is enough to make me renounce my faith, the Blue Hats, are Satan’s Cavemen,

 

[scipio337]

In some ways it is pity - but completely understandable - that the debate on gun control is prompted by tragic events such as these.

When you consider, as one of the links I posted earlier, there is a wider issue:

In the US, the total of firearm homicides in 2011 was eleven thousand, one hundred and one, and this year is on track to be even higher. Look at it this way: if the Connecticut attack was the only shooting yesterday, then the day’s death toll would actually be below the US average. More people die from firearm homicide every year than the total number of US military casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001. More than twice as many people die from firearm homicide as in 11 September and Pearl Harbour combined. 31 people every day die on average from a firearm-related homicide. This doesn’t count accidental deaths. Just murder.

The real tragedy is that it seems that gun-related deaths in the US are just business as usual and surely part of the debate must be about whether gun control might just reduce the number of deaths in this category as well as the more shocking events that hit the headlines.

I hope the voices of reason are able to rise above the toxic hold that the gun lobby seems to hold so that there can at least be rational discussion about what might be the best way forward.

Yet violent crimes have steadily declined over the past 10 years, while gun ownership and concealed carry laws have increased, exponentially. We keep falling into this correlation = causation fallacy.

For decades we heard how concealed carry laws would result in a “Wild West” atmosphere: road rage shootings, shootings in bars and sporting events, etc. They never materialized, even as 49 states have concealed carry laws (and coming soon in Illinois). How, if gun ownership and daily carry has increased, and crime has decreased, are guns the problem?

Yes, most of Europe has lower murder rates than the US, but there are also European countries that have higher gun ownership rates, and drastically lower murder rates (Switzerland, Norway, etc). At the same time, there are several countries in South and Central America (and Mexico) that have very strict gun laws, yet still have higher gun murder rates than the US.

The lesson is that these murders occur due to cultural and economic factors, not due to high gun ownership.

I’ve heard so much about “The Gun Lobby™”, which to me is silly. The NRA (who is far and away the largest spender) spent a whopping $805,000 in lobbying last year (a presidential election year, so spending was higher).

opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?cycle=2012&ind=Q13

Compare/contrast that to the $95 MILLION spent by the US Chamber of Commerce, or the $25 million spent by the National Association of Realtors, or the $100+ million spent by super PACs.

opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?showYear=2012&indexType=s

It’s a drop in the political world bucket. There is no “toxic gun lobby”. I for one am glad that our Constitution is finally being interpreted to its original intent on the 2nd Amendment.

 

[liturgyluver]

What about the right to self defense? My home has been kept safe on occasion from the threat of the local pill heads stealing and robbing as my brother would pal around with them getting high 24/7. They would start to lurk onto the property here;
After they stated they would not BLANK with my house because they didn’t want to get shot up.

This is what the Vatican has to say about that:

*According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, individuals have a right and a duty to protect their own lives when in danger, but the catechism clarifies that repelling the aggressor must be done “with moderation” in order to be “lawful” in the eyes of the church; using “more than necessary violence” would be unlawful, it says.

According to the catechism, the right to use firearms to “repel aggressors” or render them harmless is specifically sanctioned for “those who legitimately hold authority” and have been given the duty of protecting the community.

Di Ruzza said that in “a democracy, where there is respect for institutions (of law), the citizen relinquishes his right to revenge onto the state,” which, through its law enforcement and courts system, aims to mete out a fair and just punishment.

But once a nation has a functioning army, police force and court system, “do I still serve the common good with my gun or do I put it at even greater danger?” and promote a lawless kind of “street justice where if you steal my car, I shoot you,” he asked.*

I would suggest that shooting someone dead simply because they might steal or rob is excessive - and what are the chances that you would be at home if it happened.

 

[scipio337]

What about the right to self defense? My home has been kept safe on occasion from the threat of the local pill heads stealing and robbing as my brother would pal around with them getting high 24/7. They would start to lurk onto the property here;
After they stated they would not BLANK with my house because they didn’t want to get shot up.

The UN small arms treaty is just a form of back door registration. The requirements are for 20 year end user tracking for imported small arms.

An example: I buy a Benelli shotgun (made in Italy). The US would somehow have to track my purchase for 20 years. Meaning, if I pass it along to my son, they would need to track it, if I trade it at a gun show, they would need to track it, etc.

The only way to accomplish this would be to register and track EVERY gun in the US. I’m not one for black helicopters, but this is a reaaaaly bad idea! We know, historically what happens after gun registration…

 

[BroomWagon]

Reading through the comments thus far it seems that several factors have been identified as potentially to blame for this crime: the gun, drugs, the young man’s environment, etc.

These may all be contributing factors (although the elites still have not come to terms with the fact that we are never going to give up our guns regardless of how many of these tragedies they exploit), but at the end of the day, there were two culprits: this young man’s free will and the Devil.

Today’s society increasingly does not take seriously the reality of Hell. That is to be expected given that increasing numbers no longer believe in God and in fact many are shifting from rejecting Him to challenging Him.

I think it was at an apparition in Germany in the 1930’s that Our Blessed Mother warned us that society was worse off than just prior to the Deluge. I always thought that that warning applied to the tyrants of that time (and indeed it did) but looking at our sex-addicted and violence-saturated culture today, I think that Our Lady’s warnings are more relevant than ever. I think at Fatima and Akita she warned that if society keeps misbehaving we are in for a chastisement of fire. Every time one of these shootings gets publicity I am reminded of the lack of publicity given to the daily, much worse abortion holocaust.

I don’t think there are any ‘approved’ apparitions out of Germany so far.

Belgium has two out of the 1930s, Beauraing and Banneux.

Approved too is Our Lady of all nations in Amsterdam. I guess that must be the only one out of the Netherlands.

 

[scipio337]

This is what the Vatican has to say about that:

*According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, individuals have a right and a duty to protect their own lives when in danger, but the catechism clarifies that repelling the aggressor must be done “with moderation” in order to be “lawful” in the eyes of the church; using “more than necessary violence” would be unlawful, it says.

According to the catechism, the right to use firearms to “repel aggressors” or render them harmless is specifically sanctioned for “those who legitimately hold authority*” and have been given the duty of protecting the community.

Di Ruzza said that in “a democracy, where there is respect for institutions (of law), the citizen relinquishes his right to revenge onto the state,” which, through its law enforcement and courts system, aims to mete out a fair and just punishment.

But once a nation has a functioning army, police force and court system, “do I still serve the common good with my gun or do I put it at even greater danger?” and promote a lawless kind of “street justice where if you steal my car, I shoot you,” he asked.

I would suggest that shooting someone dead simply because they might steal or rob is excessive - and what are the chances that you would be at home if it happened.

We are “legitimately hold authority” via the US Constitution: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State…

This “street vengence” stuff is pure fantasy. A responsible gun owner (there are 80 million in America) never will, or has done that.

 

[livingwordunity]

And remember that the school was a “gun free zone”. The problem isn’t guns, the problem is that there’s an epidemic of evil.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

And remember that the school was a “gun free zone”.

That law didn’t work out so well yesterday…

 

[InJesusItrust]

I think it is because we glorify violence in media, whether books, movies, music or video games. I cannot discount the idea that violence is presented as an acceptable answer to many situations. Many people growing up surrounded by this sexualized media are already perverts. Even if you take away guns someone with stab you with a knife or beat you up with his peeps.

 

[liturgyluver]

Yet violent crimes have steadily declined over the past 10 years, while gun ownership and concealed carry laws have increased, exponentially. We keep falling into this correlation = causation fallacy.

For decades we heard how concealed carry laws would result in a “Wild West” atmosphere: road rage shootings, shootings in bars and sporting events, etc. They never materialized, even as 49 states have concealed carry laws (and coming soon in Illinois). How, if gun ownership and daily carry has increased, and crime has decreased, are guns the problem?

Yes, most of Europe has lower murder rates than the US, but there are also European countries that have higher gun ownership rates, and drastically lower murder rates (Switzerland, Norway, etc). At the same time, there are several countries in South and Central America (and Mexico) that have very strict gun laws, yet still have higher gun murder rates than the US.

The lesson is that these murders occur due to cultural and economic factors, not due to high gun ownership.

I actually agree with you that the stats only tell part of the picture (though incidently the opening link shows that the situation in Norway and Switzerland is very different to common perceptions) but the point I was making is that the US is “off the scale” when it comes to gun homicides in the developed world and that statistic alone ought to prompt a debate and a call to action rather than simply a regurgitation of soundbites. There seems to be a resigned acceptance that thousands are killed every year by guns without examining why. And surely as Catholics we should be informed by what the church teaches us on these issues.