Contradictory Religions Can’t All Be True

  • Thread starter Thread starter upant
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Niblo said:
40.png
Hume:
How about Muhammad climbing a ladder all the way to heaven. Amazing, right?
Click to expand...
Hi. Purely as a matter of interest, what is your source for this? Have not come across it before.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
It was not a ladder, according to the Koran it was on the back of winged creature: Isra and Mi'raj - Wikipedia
 
AlNg said:
40.png
openmind77:
BTW, here is comparison between Hinduism and Christianity if you are interested: http://hinduism-christianity-islam.info/
Click to expand...
It is interesting that Hinduism also has a sort of Trinitarian God and various incarnations of God.
Click to expand...
This is not strictly Hindu belief about the various incarnations, but something I have read elsewhere: ‘God’ sends a Teacher to Earth approximately every 2160 years according to precession of the equinoxes (the Sun’s apparent movement thru constellations). According to this theory Mithra was the teacher of the Age of Taurus, Krishna was the teacher of Age of Aries and Jesus was the teacher of Age of Pisces.
 
upant said:
…
Jesus is God or He isn’t

either the Muslim or Christian view is right, both can’t be.
Click to expand...
As you stated.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
466 The Nestorian heresy regarded Christ as a human person joined to the divine person of God’s Son. Opposing this heresy, St. Cyril of Alexandria and the third ecumenical council, at Ephesus in 431, confessed "that the Word, uniting to himself in his person the flesh animated by a rational soul, became man."89 Christ’s humanity has no other subject than the divine person of the Son of God, who assumed it and made it his own, from his conception. …
Click to expand...
 
AlNg said:
40.png
openmind77:
This is not strictly Hindu belief
Click to expand...
I have heard or seen the word avatar used. For example, Krishna is an avatar of God or Krishna is an incarnation of God.
Click to expand...
Yes, Avatar is a Hindu term for a divine incarnation.

This occurs when the spirit of Vishnu (the second person of the Hindu trinitarian Gods) descends into the body of a human being and makes him an Avatar of Vishnu.
 
openmind77 said:
40.png
Niblo:
40.png
Hume:
How about Muhammad climbing a ladder all the way to heaven. Amazing, right?
Click to expand...
Hi. Purely as a matter of interest, what is your source for this? Have not come across it before.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
It was not a ladder, according to the Koran it was on the back of winged creature: Isra and Mi'raj - Wikipedia
Click to expand...
I think the journey is subject to debate over details, like everything.

The Quran isn’t the sole source.

“In the second part of the journey, the Miʿraj (an Arabic word that literally means “ladder”),[12] Jibra’il took him to the heavens, where he toured the seven stages of heaven ,”

From the wiki,

 
Last edited:
Hume said:
One of the first things Google’s spat back at me. Just search for Muhammad’s night Journey or something like that.
Click to expand...
Ahhh…Imam Google! Now I understand 😄

‘Glory to Him who made His servant travel by night from the sacred place of worship to the furthest place of worship, whose surroundings We have blessed, to show him some of Our signs: He alone is the All Hearing, the All Seeing.’ (‘Al-Isra’: 1).

Al-Isra means ‘The Night Journey’, and this all the Qu’ran has to say about it. No ladder!

Shaykh Seyyed Hossein Nasr writes:

‘Detailed accounts of the Night Journey exist in the Ḥadīth, and the event resonates throughout Islamic literature, especially in mystical works, where the journey is seen as the prototype for all spiritual journeying toward the encounter with God. This central spiritual event in the life of the Prophet has also been the subject of some of the greatest masterpieces of Islamic miniature painting and poetry. Elements of the account of the Prophet’s Night Journey may have even influenced accounts of mystical journeying in other traditions, such as Dante’s Divine Comedy, whose architecture of the heavens is similar to that described in accounts of the Prophet’s ascension, some of which had reached the Latin West.’ (‘The Study Qur’an’).

He doesn’t mention ladders either.

Although no means a Qur’anist, some ʼaḥādīth I would be very wary off! Thank you for your trouble.

Take care, and very best regards.
 
Lightly addressed above.

Depends on how much you value the Hadith.

We find the Arabic word for ladder there.
 
Last edited:
Indeed, but not in the Qur’an.

Those ʼaḥādīth that run contrary to common sense (or that contradict the Qur’an) are best set aside.

The notion that the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) ascended to Heaven using a ladder is acceptable, if - and only if - interpreted as a metaphor. Taken literally, it is plain stupidity.

I know of no ḥādīth that makes this claim; but there again, I am not an ʼaḥādīth scholar, and therefore stand to be corrected.

Cheers.
 
Last edited:
Niblo said:
Indeed, but not in the Qur’an.
Click to expand...
No. Not in the Quran. Like the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, it’s found elsewhere than the main religious scripture.
Those ʼaḥādīth that run contrary to common sense (or that contradict the Qur’an) are best set aside.
Click to expand...
I’ll leave that for the Muslims to squabble over.
The notion that the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) ascended to Heaven using a ladder is acceptable, if - and only if - interpreted as a metaphor. Taken literally, it is plain stupidity.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The whole thing is stupid. The parts and the whole.
I know of no ḥādīth that makes this claim; but there again, I am not an ʼaḥādīth scholar, and therefore stand to be corrected.

Cheers.
Click to expand...
tip of the cap
 
Niblo said:
Indeed, but not in the Qur’an.

Those ʼaḥādīth that run contrary to common sense (or that contradict the Qur’an) are best set aside.

The notion that the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) ascended to Heaven using a ladder is acceptable, if - and only if - interpreted as a metaphor. Taken literally, it is plain stupidity.

I know of no ḥādīth that makes this claim; but there again, I am not an ʼaḥādīth scholar, and therefore stand to be corrected.
Click to expand...
I thought Muhammad’s journey to heaven was not disputed by any Muslim of any sect. Or is it?
 
Ah, just saw you’re a Muslim.

Sorry if I offended. Was not my intent.

But to the matter I just now realized you’re sort of passive-aggressively trying to debate, I offer this as an atheist-

“The idea Muhammad climbed to heaven on a ladder is nonsense! Everyone knows he rode a great black winged beast!”

That’s not exactly an improvement in the minds of the empirically minded. Not at all.
 
Last edited:
What is death?
Death is the separation of the human soul from the human body.
Jesus died on the cross. His human body and human soul were separated.
But Jesus in His Person is the Second Person of the Trinity. He wholly possesses the One divine nature, So God died in the cross. That does not mean that God ceased to exist.
 
openmind77 said:
I thought Muhammad’s journey to heaven was not disputed by any Muslim of any sect. Or is it?
Click to expand...
With respect, I did not dispute the journey - nor do I know of any Muslim who does. I was merely questioning the use of the word ‘ladder’.

I hope this clarifies matters.
 
Right.

In the Mi’raj - the hadith on the second ascent to heaven - the word “ladder” is used.
 
Last edited:
Niblo said:
40.png
Hume:
“The idea Muhammad climbed to heaven on a ladder is nonsense! Everyone knows he rode a great black winged beast!”
Click to expand...
No mention of that in the Qur’an either!
Click to expand...
Pardon, got the description wrong.

On the first visit;
In the accounts of the Israʾ , Muhammad is said to have traveled on the back of a winged mule-like white beast, called Buraq , to “the farthest mosque”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top