COVID 19 Vaccines

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RuthAnne said:
My husband and I have both had measles and rubella as have our 9 siblings and most of our childhood friends. It was common back then and was no biggie.
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Did you know that before polio vaccine was developed, 98 to 99% of people who contracted polio had only a mild illness? It only paralyzed 1 or 2 percent. Would you say that is acceptable?

I’m glad you got rubella out of the way when you were a child. Rubella during pregnancy used to be a major cause of miscarriage and birth defects. Before vaccine, roughly 0.4% of babies were born with rubella-induced defects. The remaining 99.6% of babies were unaffected by rubella. Not bad odds, wouldn’t you say?
 
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Here’s a question for those that morally object to a vaccine that was manufactured with aborted cell lines even though the church allows them as the abortions happened so long ago…

How do you feel about a vaccine that was developed in its research phase using these cell lines but the actual manufacturing does not use them? Is this ok?
 
Beryllos said:
Did you know that before polio vaccine was developed, 98 to 99% of people who contracted polio had only a mild illness? It only paralyzed 1 or 2 percent. Would you say that is acceptable?
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I think your numbers of how many are paralyzed are overstated but even if it were a fraction of that, it doesn’t make it acceptable. But I believe the damage done due to the vaccine outweighs the damage done due to not having the vaccine.
 
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I note that you said believe, not claim, and leave it at that. It’s pointless to argue about your beliefs.
 
Pattylt said:
How do you feel about a vaccine that was developed in its research phase using these cell lines but the actual manufacturing does not use them? Is this ok?
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Just wondering…is this any different than asking if it’s morally more acceptable to kill ten people than it is to kill a thousand people?
 
I heard an evangelical pro-life speaker once use the phrase “trotting the toddler.” That means simply that whenever there’s a question about how to treat an embryo or fetus, apply it to a toddler.

So . . . how do you feel about a vaccine that was developed in its research phase using the cell lines of a killed toddler but the actual manufacturing does not use them? Is this OK?

Assuming you’re addressing a pro-lifer who doesn’t discriminate against others based on whether they’re in the prenatal or toddler phase of development, the answer should be similar. Sorry - it doesn’t answer your question, but it’s one way to ponder it.
 
RuthAnne said:
It was common back then and was no biggie.
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The fact that you were unaware of the danger does not make it less dangerous anywhere except in your mind.

I will repeat, with my addition of the information: “In 2018, there were 371 confirmed cases of measles in the US. World wide there were an estimated 10,000,000 cases and an estimated 142,300 deaths. Infants and children are the most at risk of fatal complications. Potential complications are pneumonia and encephalitis (swelling of the brain), with life-long complications: permanent brain damage, blindness, or hearing loss.”

I would suspect that the adults and children who died have relatives who think differently; as well as the parents whose children are permanently damaged.

And those are only two of the deadly diseases which can be prevented by vaccine; I will reiterate that as a young child, I went with my parents to visit a child older them me in an iron lung.

Everyone makes their choice.
 
There was an old man sitting on his porch watching the rain fall. Pretty soon the water was coming over the porch and into the house.

The old man was still sitting there when a rescue came and the people said, “You can’t stay here you have to come with us.”

The old man replied, “No, God will save me.” So they left. A little while later the water was up to the second floor, and a rescue boat came, and again the people told the old man he had to come with them.

The old man again replied, “God will save me.” So the boat left him.

An hour later the water was up to the roof and a helicopter approached the old man, and tried to get him to come with them.

Again the old man refused to leave stating that, “God will save him.” So the helicopter left him.

Soon after, the man drowns and goes to heaven, and when he sees God he asks him, “Why didn’t you save me?”

God replied, “I sent a team walking up to your porch and you ignored them. I sent people in a boat and you ignored them. I sent people in a helicopter and you ignored them. Why did you ignore what I did?”
 
That story has been around forever but it’s still a good one. And very appropriate.
 
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@RuthAnne and @blackforest…

It’s just a question and I realize that no one that is antiabortion is comfortable with those cell lines being used from 50 years ago. They aren’t still using fresh abortions. It just I’ve heard several posters claim they won’t take a vaccine that has any cellular tissue in it from those abortions years ago. I just wondered if they felt differently if there was no fetal cells used in the manufacture.

You do realize that much research uses those original fetal cells besides vaccines. The research leads to medicines that don’t use them in the manufacturing process, however. I was curious!
 
Don’t get me wrong - you’re asking a fair question. I was showing a way for pro-lifers to frame/re-frame ethical dilemmas. I haven’t decided either way if I’m taking this vaccine.
 
I will take it when offered. For me, it’s a risk assessment between my age and health and ability to survive an infection or the risk associated with a new vaccine. In my case, I’ll take the shot.

Everyone will have to do this as well and many already have mentally made their choice. I agree with anyone’s choice in this matter. Younger healthy people are quite justified in refusing or waiting. It’s us old fogies with pre existing conditions where it’s a bit harder. 🤣😱🤣
 
Pattylt said:
Here’s an easy to read chart of the benefits of vaccinations.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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That is such a good example of pro-vaccine DECEPTION!

Deaths from vaccine related illnesses declined dramatically BEFORE the relevant vaccines became widely available!


The graph is explained towards the bottom of this page by a Christian convert, Dr Sue Humphries

I don’t want the following information to sour anyone’s view about vaccine technology in general. I think vaccine technology is one of the greatest medical advancements of the 20th century.

However, like almost everything else that is good in the world vaccines can be manipulated or misused in ways resulting in harm.

I’ll focus on polio since it is considered by many to be one of the most successful vaccination campaigns. However, there is very good reason to seriously doubt the spin by vax salesmen.

With polio they changed the criteria for diagnosis after the vaccine became available so it would be harder to make the diagnosis. Then they created a new diagnosis for non-polio paralysis that is very much like polio. Check out this article for the longer version of the story.

The following article is about the original Salk oral polio vaccine. It is no longer used in the US but an oral polio vaccine is sometimes used elsewhere in the world. It is suspected of being involved in an increase in cases of non-polio paralysis.


childrenshealthdefense.org

Non-Polio Illness That 'Looks Just Like Polio'

Over the past five years, a rare and serious “polio-like” illness has been cropping up in clusters around the U.S., but public health officials are studiously ignoring possible environmental triggers that include vaccination.
childrenshealthdefense.org childrenshealthdefense.org
A single vaccine campaign that Gates launched in India for polio ended up causing non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP), or permanent paralyzation, in nearly half a million children between the years of 2000 and 2017.

After the Indian government demanded that Gates and his cronies leave India following this epidemic of permanent injury, rates of NPAFP dropped precipitously.
Link
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www.naturalnews.com

WHO admits polio outbreak in the Philippines caused by polio vaccines… outbreak “caused by vaccine-derived poliovirus type 2” – NaturalNews.com

The polio vaccine has caused an escalating outbreak of polio in the Philippines, according to the World Health Organization and UNICEF, which issued a joint statement admitting the vaccine is causing polio. “WHO and UNICEF said in a joint statement the polio outbreak in the Philippines is...
www.naturalnews.com www.naturalnews.com



continued
 
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continued

A graph of the disturbing rise in cases of non-polio paralysis is in this article by Dr Humphries.

Humphries also writes,

“The polio vaccine had the fastest licensing in FDA history. It was approved for commercial production after only a two-hour deliberation amongst the Licensing Committee, in a pressured environment. These scientists witnessed a vaccine that was escorted to market, before academic and community doctors had a chance to read any published reports on the safety studies, and before the results of the big polio vaccine trial made it into any medical journal.”

One really sad aspect of the corruption, censorship, coercion and abuse related to vaccines is that people will naturally become suspicious of all vaccine related technologies. We will loose the opportunity for maximum gains from the vaccines that are actually quite good and beneficial.

We need vigorous, free debate so people can be confident that they are well informed. We need to prosecute those who harm people with vaccines due to desire for financial gain or due to other motives.

While it seems quite reasonable to reduce the liability for doctors who administer vaccines and Pharma companies that make them, it is not wise to completely eliminate all liability. They make more $ when vaccines and vaccine related policies cause more side effects!
 
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Joegrane said:
I’ll focus on polio since it is considered by many to be one of the most successful vaccination campaigns. However, there is very good reason to seriously doubt the spin by vax salesmen.
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Note to readers: The subtle use of the term “vax salesmen” is an emotional one, meant to conjure up images of unprincipled sales people out to make money at other people’s expense, rather than the more true image of dedicated researchers sincerely trying alleviate human suffering. This tends to short-circuit the logical analysis of what follows, so be on your guard!
Joegrane said:
The following article is about the original Salk oral polio vaccine… It is suspected of being involved in an increase in cases of non-polio paralysis.
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Note: “It is suspected…” is another way if giving respectability to a potentially disrespectable and unfounded suspicion. This is even more likely given that the article cited is from NaturalNews.com, which is a far-right and conspiracy theory fake news website. Don’t trust anything you read there, no matter how professional it looks!

The same is true of the other article from the Children’s Health Defense, another questionable website.

An three more “NaturalNews” articles. In other words, not a single respectable authoritative citation!
 
otjm said:
The fact that you were unaware of the danger does not make it less dangerous anywhere except in your mind.
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This is, possibly, the best thing I’ve ever read on CAF in my 16 years in this site. Bravo.
 
I second that sentiment, now living in a State considering stage 5 lockdowns
 
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