Dave's Allegation That Catholics Are Idolators

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Zippy:
I only point out the CLEAR FACTS.

Seems to me you are judging me…:tsktsk:
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What would those “facts” be?

Peace
 
One Mystery solved. oudave cannot currently come and join this discussion since he and Ruth101 seem to be taking an enforced vacation from the site. 😃
 
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kmktexas:
One Mystery solved. oudave cannot currently come and join this discussion since he and Ruth101 seem to be taking an enforced vacation from the site. 😃
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they have been put into coventry and I hope that they will soon have some more company (not mentioning names but hope that Zippy gets the hint)

Maggie
 
the poll said here’s why, so I’ll give it my 2 pennies worth.

It’s a deception meant to distract attention from the idols that are worshipped in the sanctuary of the heart. Any time there exists an internal object that is denied it will manifest it’s existence to the person who denies it everywhere it can on the exterior environment. The great seal of this delusion is that it only had to be established from the interior hearts of a few men for a short time to become a fixed exterior perception that makes an autoblinder for idols in the heart. The most powerfull idols are the ministers of peace that are able to change a reality that is painfull, into one that we can accept or even better enjoy.

I think some protestors are zealous out of the fear that Catholicism is correct. To them the Catholic call is too radical and painfull looking, so, the ministers of the worlds peace that are wrapped so tightly around their personalities they can’t see them, whisper in their ear " did God really say?"
 
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kmktexas:
One Mystery solved. oudave cannot currently come and join this discussion since he and Ruth101 seem to be taking an enforced vacation from the site. 😃
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What’s up guys?
How come ruth and dave were banned?
 
Bleevrz3:16:
What’s up guys?
How come ruth and dave were banned?
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They have probably been suspended because they keep repeating hateful statements. They don’t give any proof for there statements and they don’t listen to arguements. They were very disrespectful.
 
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Benadam:
the poll said here’s why, so I’ll give it my 2 pennies worth.

It’s a deception meant to distract attention from the idols that are worshipped in the sanctuary of the heart. Any time there exists an internal object that is denied it will manifest it’s existence to the person who denies it everywhere it can on the exterior environment. The great seal of this delusion is that it only had to be established from the interior hearts of a few men for a short time to become a fixed exterior perception that makes an autoblinder for idols in the heart. The most powerfull idols are the ministers of peace that are able to change a reality that is painfull, into one that we can accept or even better enjoy.

I think some protestors are zealous out of the fear that Catholicism is correct. To them the Catholic call is too radical and painfull looking, so, the ministers of the worlds peace that are wrapped so tightly around their personalities they can’t see them, whisper in their ear " did God really say?"
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I reread this and it lacks charity in that it seems to mean that only Protestants are encumbered with ministerial spirits. That’s not true, we all got them at least hanging around if not recognized.
 
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MaggieOH:
Angainor,

I do respect where you are coming from. Yes “having a lend of someone” is like ribbing them. I knew that you did not see Catholics as idolators, and that perhaps you have a few notions that still need to be ironed out. I apologise for taking your post in jest.

Now I do not see where you are getting the impression that Catholics overly adore the Church. It is the same with the Eucharist.

I can see that you mention the words “taken to extreme” and in fact I agree with the points that you are making. I do think that they are very good points to remember because some people can go to extremes with these things, whether they want to admit it or not.

We have a reverence for the Eucharist in the form of the host, because we believe that after it has been consecrated, Jesus is truly present and remains present. There is a prayer in the Mass where the priests asks the Holy Spirit to come down and “bless and approve our offering”, then we have the Consecration which is the point at which Jesus becomes truly present in the bread and wine, even though the accidents remain the same.

God Bless,

Maggie O’Hearn
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Correction?
We act reverently while adoring the Eucharist.
And so we have Eucharistic Adoration.
You have a great name, Maggie.

Peace and Love
 
Michaelp,

I would tell you that memberofthebody is like many ex-Catholics I met while in the Protestant Churches. He tells you what he did and saw others do. He tells you what he did in his heart and from that can tell you what others did in theirs.

Although a baptized Catholic as an infant, I was not raised in the Church. I finally got a catechism of the Catholic Church. Upon reading it topically (ie someone would say Catholics worship Mary) I would read what Catholics are supposed to do. They are NOT supposed to worship Mary. Unfortunately, those who are improperly taught, may think that was what they were supposed to do.

But please, look to what Catholic Christians are supposed to do. Not what someone who USED to be Catholic did.

It is no different than me not judging all Evangelicals as going to hell because one woman who calls herself an evangelical Christian regular consults her astrological sign for advice on what she should do for the day. I know she is wrong for doing so, but I do not think that all evangelical Christians do that. Or once this woman finally realizes fortune telling is wrong, ends up in a different church denomination and blames evangelicals for her misunderstandings of what an Evangelical Christian is supposed to do.

God Bless,
Maria
 
Bleevrz3:16:
What’s up guys?
How come ruth and dave were banned?
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For repeatedly ignoring requests not to hijack threads among other things.
 
It’s a shame those people are suspended because I wanted to see if I could force an answer from them.

I find it so confusing that people will ask someone what they believe, the someone will tell them, and then that person will pretty much say, “No, you don’t believe that.”

Now I know some people just wanna argue but how you gonna walk up to someone and tell them what they believe??? That is something I can’t comprehend. It’s like:

**Protestant: **So, do you all worship Mary or what?
**Catholics: **We don’t ‘worship’ Mary like we do God. We ask Mary and the saints to pray for us, much like you would ask a friend to pray for you. We don’t believe they have any power in themselves, just like your friend wouldn’t have any power in themselves.
**Protestant: **So why do you kneel at her statue?
**Catholics: **Out of reverence and respect.
**Protestant: **Your worship Mary and make her equal with God.

See?? HUH??? These people don’t need to ask anyone what they believe. They already know everything. They might as well talk to themselves.
 
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michaelp:
Good question Pax, but I honestly see better answers from you all than from the AA forum.

These responses have certianly given me something to think about.

Thanks,

Michael
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:hmmm: 😃
 
Church Militant:
Thanks for that link Felicity!
That and the one at the Vatican website are the two best I’ve found.
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My pleasure 😃 !

Actually–Vatican’s probably better (duh!!!:whacky: ) It’s got the footnoted references, and I don’t think the other does. The Vatican website is prettier too!

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
 
I once read about a protestant who came to Catholism late in his life. He told how one of the aspects of Catholism that kept him from converting earlier was the prayer to the saints and devotion to Mary. The story of how he came to understand these practices is quite good and I will relate it as I remember it in my own words as I no longer have the actual article. He related how someone in his family had become seriously ill. There was apparently a woman in his church whose prayers everyone requested because she was seen by the congregation as a holy and righteous woman and it was believed that her prayers were more effective that the average persons. He considered approaching her to ask for her help with prayer for this relative. It was then he understood what Catholics are doing when asking for the help of saints and Mary. He went on to further say that few of us have second thoughts about asking someone to pray for us. What we don’t consider though is that we are all restricted by how much time we can devote to prayer. Every day tasks and chores can sometimes take all of our time and attention. He stated how he had often promised to pray for someone and then days later realized that he had forgotten because he made that promise to many people. Since Mary and the saints are not bound by time and are continuously in the presence of God, we can be assured that we will not be forgotten by them. I found that to be an eloquent tribute to the practice of Catholics. Sometimes, it is the people who come from outside the church who have the most insight.

Statues, pictures and cards of the saints are no more idolatry than having pictures of your family in your wallet.

One major point missed in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man is that the man cried out to Abraham, who is in heaven, for help. If Jesus condemned us for asking those who have gone before us for aid, why then would He tell this parable in this way. Why wouldn’t the rich man have cried out to God? This parable is a clear example that those in heaven can here us. Abraham doesn’t tell the rich man that he can’t help him, he says that the chasm between them can’t be breached(but only because the man is in hell). When the rich man asks him to warn his brothers, Abraham knows that they have already hardened their hearts too much to believe. This indicates that Abraham has knowledge of these brothers’ hearts and lives and that if it would have been accepted, he would have helped. This omission is just another example of using Scripture to bash a Catholic belief without giving the full text and context.
 
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st_felicity:
And if anyone’s curious as to what (properly catechized) Catholics actually believe:

christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc.html

(Great post Maria!👍 )
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Here’s a true story: I actually bought the CCC for my father-in-law (a devoutly non-Catholic Christian). He actually refused to read it telling me that “it was full of propaganda and lies" and that the Catholic Church would do anything to “hide the real truth” from its members. Not surprisingly he told me that his Church taught the truth about Catholicism and that we’re all being deceived… yadda, yadda, yadda…

My own father had a saying; “You’ll often find that people closley resemble that which they hate the most. The more extreme the positon, the better the fit”. This irony escapes my father-in-law, especially when he makes his own infallible papal pronouncements own from his own personal magisterium.
 
Has any anti-catholic who ever used that tired old line about Catholics being idol worshippers ever thought about the fact that the Ten Commandments were put in the fanciest box they could make and then put into the fanciest building they could construct, both of which had “graven images” all over the place, sheesh! I mean the Isrealites got whammied for making the Golden Calf, right? So why did God approve of a temple that had 12 bulls in it?
 
Hey Madaglan!

Did you make a mistake on your voting? If not, then why do you list yourself as Catholic. I see on several of the threads you started you seem to have a problem with Eucharist adoration, as well as the real presence of Christ.

You list yourself as Catholic yet can vote that Catholics are idolators? What’s the deal?
 
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