Dave's Allegation That Catholics Are Idolators

[Xavier]

Styree:

Has any anti-catholic who ever used that tired old line about Catholics being idol worshippers ever thought about the fact that the Ten Commandments were put in the fanciest box they could make and then put into the fanciest building they could construct, both of which had “graven images” all over the place, sheesh! I mean the Isrealites got whammied for making the Golden Calf, right? So why did God approve of a temple that had 12 bulls in it?

Not antiCatholic although i have been called one.
God instructed how the Ark and temple were to be built.
The rest is against the instrucion of God, see make no graven image.
It is simply a matter of obedience. Do you obey God or do you decide what is right in your own eyes?

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Xavier:

Not antiCatholic although i have been called one.
God instructed how the Ark and temple were to be built.
The rest is against the instrucion of God, see make no graven image.
It is simply a matter of obedience. Do you obey God or do you decide what is right in your own eyes?

Obey God you mean except for Jesus appointing Peter as the Pope and setting up the Magestarium and being obedient to the Authority He set up.Please

 

[Xavier]

Lisa4Catholics:

Obey God you mean except for Jesus appointing Peter as the Pope and setting up the Magestarium and being obedient to the Authority He set up.Please

Is this on subject?

I find no mention of pope in my New Testament.

 

[jimmy]

Xavier:

Is this on subject?

I find no mention of pope in my New Testament.

I find no mention of the new testament or any books in the new testament in my new testament.

 

[dennisknapp]

Xavier:

Not antiCatholic although i have been called one.
God instructed how the Ark and temple were to be built.
The rest is against the instrucion of God, see make no graven image.
It is simply a matter of obedience. Do you obey God or do you decide what is right in your own eyes?

Do you worship Jesus? Is he not the “image of the invisible God?”

If you want nothing to do with images there are two other monothiestic religions to choose from.

Peace

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Xavier:

Is this on subject?

I find no mention of pope in my New Testament.

You brought up obedience I responded with your obvious exception.I will get back on topic now,sorry Michael

 

[Church_Militant]

Xavier:

Not antiCatholic although i have been called one.
God instructed how the Ark and temple were to be built.
The rest is against the instrucion of God, see make no graven image.
It is simply a matter of obedience. Do you obey God or do you decide what is right in your own eyes?

This is such bunk that it’s hard to follow his logic at all…
How can what this man says be true in light of this passage from the first commandment?
Exodus 20:1-5

“1 And the Lord spoke all these words: 2 I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me:”

If the making of images is wrong as the Moslems and these misgiuded iconoclasts say then how do they account for God COMMANDING the making of images to adorn the top of the Ark of the Covenant and the brass serpent that Moses lifted up to save the Israelites that had sinned and which in fact is mentioned in the NT as a type of the lifting up of Christ for our sins? The temple of Solomon is described as having been adorned with all manner of images yet God was pleased to be present there and did not condemn them for it.

The fact is that they can’t…but they can come off with stuff that makes them sound religious and feeds their ego by allowing them to come into this forum and badmouth our most holy faith. (I apologize in advance to all the good non-Catholic posters who hang out with us here for what I’m about to say. This is NOT directed at any of you at all, at all. The people I am talking about/to will know full well who they are.) They come in here and say all this trash because it is their idea of soul winning and it is the easy way as opposed to actually carrying out Jesus’ commands to DO something for others as in Matthew 25:31-46. This is indeed the way most of the worst excuses for non-Catholic Christians feel they are doing God’s will…this and blessed little else. Perhaps this is what Jesus meant when He says that “this people serves me with their lips but their hearts are far from me.”
Face it folks…it’s a lot easier to bash someone else’s religion on an internet forum than to get out and really be about Our Father’s business.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.

gosh…I seem to have brought us back on topic…circuitously…

 

[MaggieOH]

Bleevrz3:16:

What’s up guys?
How come ruth and dave were banned?

He or she who break forum rules gets suspended, and if they continue to break forum rules they get banned.

This is a warning to all anti-Catholics about their rhetoric.

Maggie

 

[MaggieOH]

cyprian:

Correction?
We act reverently while adoring the Eucharist.
And so we have Eucharistic Adoration.
You have a great name, Maggie.

Peace and Love

I wonder why it is that I get a feeling that you, Cyprian, are deliberately dogging a fellow Catholic in order to make what can only be spiteful comments?

This is getting to be rather nasty. I have noticed that you do not respond to the questions of Protestants but you have gunned for one person in particular with what can only be described as veiled and nasty jibes.

Are you a friend of SeanOL by chance? I know how nasty he and his friends can be.

MaggieOH

 

[Wildgraywolf]

Xavier:

Not antiCatholic although i have been called one.
God instructed how the Ark and temple were to be built.
The rest is against the instrucion of God, see make no graven image.
It is simply a matter of obedience. Do you obey God or do you decide what is right in your own eyes?

God is fine with graven images, He likes graven images, and He gave instructions on what they should look like and what they should be made out of. God never said we or anybody else was forbidden to make graven images. Try reading the first commandment again; this time with your eyes open. Would you be happy to take down all of the crosses on Christian churces (God didn’t tell anyone to make them) or maybe send the statue of Liberty back to France? With all due respect it’s sheer, stupidity to believe that Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, etc worship graven images. I ask you; do you honestly believe we worship statues, icons, etc.? After reading all the other posts do you really believe that? Do you think we are liars? Do you think we are collectively “covering up” idolatry?

 

[MaggieOH]

Xavier:

Not antiCatholic although i have been called one.
God instructed how the Ark and temple were to be built.
The rest is against the instrucion of God, see make no graven image.
It is simply a matter of obedience. Do you obey God or do you decide what is right in your own eyes?

Did you read the quote from the Book of Wisdom. According to the Sacred writer of the Book of Wisdom, idolatry is confined to those who make images of animals and trees and call them gods. This is what the warning means.

All, and especially those who claim to be catholic, yet write anti-Catholic rhetoric, who claim that Catholics are breaking the Ten Commandments, need to go back and read what is written in the Scripture. I would suggest getting hold of a Catholic Bible so that you have the whole of the Scripture. It can be illuminating to see exactly what is missing and the contradictions of those who make false claims against Catholics.

MaggieOH

 

[Xavier]

jimmy:

I find no mention of the new testament or any books in the new testament in my new testament.

This is much tooooooooooooo easy.
new testament = New Covenant.
I do find mention of the new covenant in my New Testament.

 

[Xavier]

dennisknapp:

Do you worship Jesus? Is he not the “image of the invisible God?”

If you want nothing to do with images there are two other monothiestic religions to choose from.

Peace

I worship Jesus because He is God.

 

[jimmy]

Xavier:

This is much tooooooooooooo easy.
new testament = New Covenant.
I do find mention of the new covenant in my New Testament.

I don’t know whether you were being sarcastic with that post.
the new covenant is not the new testament.

 

[Xavier]

MaggieOH:

He or she who break forum rules gets suspended, and if they continue to break forum rules they get banned.

This is a warning to all anti-Catholics about their rhetoric.

Maggie

Do Catholics get banned when they go off subject?

 

[Xavier]

Church Militant:

This is such bunk that it’s hard to follow his logic at all…
How can what this man says be true in light of this passage from the first commandment?
Exodus 20:1-5

“1 And the Lord spoke all these words: 2 I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me:”

If the making of images is wrong as the Moslems and these misgiuded iconoclasts say then how do they account for God COMMANDING the making of images to adorn the top of the Ark of the Covenant and the brass serpent that Moses lifted up to save the Israelites that had sinned and which in fact is mentioned in the NT as a type of the lifting up of Christ for our sins? The temple of Solomon is described as having been adorned with all manner of images yet God was pleased to be present there and did not condemn them for it.

The fact is that they can’t…but they can come off with stuff that makes them sound religious and feeds their ego by allowing them to come into this forum and badmouth our most holy faith. (I apologize in advance to all the good non-Catholic posters who hang out with us here for what I’m about to say. This is NOT directed at any of you at all, at all. The people I am talking about/to will know full well who they are.) They come in here and say all this trash because it is their idea of soul winning and it is the easy way as opposed to actually carrying out Jesus’ commands to DO something for others as in Matthew 25:31-46. This is indeed the way most of the worst excuses for non-Catholic Christians feel they are doing God’s will…this and blessed little else. Perhaps this is what Jesus meant when He says that “this people serves me with their lips but their hearts are far from me.”
Face it folks…it’s a lot easier to bash someone else’s religion on an internet forum than to get out and really be about Our Father’s business.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.

gosh…I seem to have brought us back on topic…circuitously…

graven images are not the gods themselves they are representations of those gods.

 

[Xavier]

Wildgraywolf:

God is fine with graven images, He likes graven images,

Ex 20:4 - Show Context "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

Le 26:1 - Show Context 'You shall not make idols for yourselves; neither a carved image nor a sacred pillar shall you rear up for yourselves; nor shall you set up an engraved stone in your land, to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God.

De 4:16 - Show Context lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure: the likeness of male or female,

De 4:23 - Show Context Take heed to yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of the Lord your God which He made with you, and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of anything which the Lord your God has forbidden you.

De 4:25 - Show Context "When you beget children and grandchildren and have grown old in the land, and act corruptly and make a carved image in the form of anything, and do evil in the sight of the Lord your God to provoke Him to anger,

De 5:8 - Show Context 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image–any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

De 27:15 - Show Context 'Cursed is the one who makes a carved or molded image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.'And all the people shall answer and say, ‘Amen!’

 

[Xavier]

MaggieOH:

Did you read the quote from the Book of Wisdom. According to the Sacred writer of the Book of Wisdom, idolatry is confined to those who make images of animals and trees and call them gods. This is what the warning means.

All, and especially those who claim to be catholic, yet write anti-Catholic rhetoric, who claim that Catholics are breaking the Ten Commandments, need to go back and read what is written in the Scripture. I would suggest getting hold of a Catholic Bible so that you have the whole of the Scripture. It can be illuminating to see exactly what is missing and the contradictions of those who make false claims against Catholics.

MaggieOH

Before I got to the Book of Wisdom I saw all this below. Whats a bible believing seeker supposed to do?
Ex 20:4 - Show Context "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

Le 26:1 - Show Context 'You shall not make idols for yourselves; neither a carved image nor a sacred pillar shall you rear up for yourselves; nor shall you set up an engraved stone in your land, to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God.

De 4:16 - Show Context lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure: the likeness of male or female,

De 4:23 - Show Context Take heed to yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of the Lord your God which He made with you, and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of anything which the Lord your God has forbidden you.

De 4:25 - Show Context "When you beget children and grandchildren and have grown old in the land, and act corruptly and make a carved image in the form of anything, and do evil in the sight of the Lord your God to provoke Him to anger,

De 5:8 - Show Context 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image–any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

De 27:15 - Show Context 'Cursed is the one who makes a carved or molded image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.'And all the people shall answer and say, ‘Amen!’

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Xavier:

Before I got to the Book of Wisdom I saw all this below. Whats a bible believing seeker supposed to do?

Listen to the Christ’s Church, the pillar and foundation of truth.

Nu 21:8-9 - Show Context “And the LORD said to Moses, 'Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live**.**”

Additionally, almost all of the Catholic “images” are cast plaster or metal, not carved, so your point is moot. Additionally, if you read your own postings, we are called not to make images and bow down to worship them AS IF THEY WERE GODS. There is no Catholic (or Orthodox) member of these forums that confuses a plaster statue for Almighty God.

 

[Xavier]

Scott_Lafrance:

Listen to the Christ’s Church, the pillar and foundation of truth.

Nu 21:8-9 - Show Context “And the LORD said to Moses, 'Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live**.**”

Additionally, almost all of the Catholic “images” are cast plaster or metal, not carved, so your point is moot. Additionally, if you read your own postings, we are called not to make images and bow down to worship them AS IF THEY WERE GODS. There is no Catholic (or Orthodox) member of these forums that confuses a plaster statue for Almighty God.

Three very important words

Nu 21:8-9 - Show Context “And the LORD said to Moses, 'Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live**.**”

So you would be in favor of destroying all the sculptures at the Vatican?