Dave's Allegation That Catholics Are Idolators

[Benadam]

Xavier:

I have answered.

Xavier, with such a legalistic view of Idolatry one can also conclude that by worshipping Christ one is worshipping a graven image. There are those who say just that about christians. Clinging to the standards set by the old testament prevents the eye from seeing the Name of God that Christ carved onto the earth. On the earth of man’s flesh is carved the Name that can’t be uttered. Now all of us have a means to do the same, as Christ said " why do you persecute* me*."

I’m sure you’re aware of the nature of spiritual names. That the name is one with the named. The human eye can’t see the name but the eye of faith can stimulate the intellect to see the name as it was written on the earth by Christ and His followers. The sight of His Name participates in the Vision of what it names, which is God. The material references you call idols are in fact representations of particular facets of that Name and stimulate the intellect to participate in the vision of God.

Don’t be distracted from the idols put before God today that can’t be seen with the eye, by the ones that were conquered yesterday by the Church that could. Today the idols are more sublime and are put before the image of God as man that is the source of human dignity.

 

[Wildgraywolf]

Styree:

We Catholics know that art can raise you up toward God

Yes, we are fortunate to have so many resources to broaden and deepen our faith and love of God.

 

[Wildgraywolf]

MaggieOH:

In that case he better throw out any Bible he possesses that has a New Testament. The people who met at Jamnia did not accept the manuscripts of the Christians as Scripture.

Maggie

I know, but I think he keeps it around for “proof”.

Funny you should mention Jamnia. My father-in-law believes that the Jews at Jamnia rescued the Old Testament from Catholic rewrites. This comes around 1,000 years before the Catholic Church existed (he claims there was no Catholic Church before 1054 a.d… have no idea where he gets his information; I’m not sure I want to either.:banghead: , but that’s another thread…

 

[MariaG]

Xavier,

What is the difference between a cross ( a molded image) and a statue? Is there a difference between a crucifix and a cross?

As I said before, but have still not received any comment from anyone but Catholic Christians, I have a fundamentalist friend who does not have photographs up on her wall or even in her wallet because she say it violates the commandment. You said that is ridiculous. But clearly, there are Christians who would accuse YOU of idolatry because of your photos. Why are you correct and they are wrong. Please explain the difference. I cannot see it.

God Bless,

Maria

 

[oldudave]

Hi
It is realy sad to see that if the Catholic forum doesnt agree with you they just cut you off. I know many Catholics that get very mad when a prot claims that the Catholic church killed those that went against the church many years ago. I know most of you dont like me but to throw me out because you dont agree is realy sad.
In Him and Him Only, Dave.

 

[jimmy]

oldudave:

Hi
It is realy sad to see that if the Catholic forum doesnt agree with you they just cut you off. I know many Catholics that get very mad when a prot claims that the Catholic church killed those that went against the church many years ago. I know most of you dont like me but to throw me out because you dont agree is realy sad.
In Him and Him Only, Dave.

Its not because they don’t agree with you. I am sure that you recieved a warning in a private message for uncharatibleness. Am I correct?

 

[LSK]

Kneeling before the statues is a form of penitent mediation - the statues are used as a way to focus the mind.

We do not WORSHIP anyone but Jesus - please refer to the Nicene Creed which set the pace for all Christian belief.

We HONOR Mary and other saintly members of the Living Church just as you honor your pastor, your mom and dad and your church elders.

See, we aren’t that far apart afterall…it’s just a matter of semantics.

In the words of my mother, don’t deny other Christians the gifts you have to bring to the banquet - just come and be a part of the entire feast!

 

[oldudave]

jimmy:

Its not because they don’t agree with you. I am sure that you recieved a warning in a private message for uncharatibleness. Am I correct?

Hi Jimmy
I did not recieve a private message or any warning.
Dave

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

oldudave:

Hi
It is realy sad to see that if the Catholic forum doesnt agree with you they just cut you off. I know many Catholics that get very mad when a prot claims that the Catholic church killed those that went against the church many years ago. I know most of you dont like me but to throw me out because you dont agree is realy sad.
In Him and Him Only, Dave.

Dave, it is not that anyone dislikes you.I don’t dislike you,but you get uncharitable,you make false accusations and when we tell you they are false and provide scripture and our testimony you dismiss it and still hatchet our faith.The behavior and attitude is not right Dave.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

oldudave:

Hi
It is realy sad to see that if the Catholic forum doesnt agree with you they just cut you off. I know many Catholics that get very mad when a prot claims that the Catholic church killed those that went against the church many years ago. I know most of you dont like me but to throw me out because you dont agree is realy sad.
In Him and Him Only, Dave.

Protestants killed Catholics too,so what is it that was gained for throwing mud from so long ago when there is blood on all?

 

[Church_Militant]

Well Dave…regardless, you have just violated the rules that you agreed to BIGTIME by coming back on and discussing mods actions on the forum. This would get anyone banned from any of the boards online here.
ENFORCEMENT

1. Reports of infractions of these rules should be submitted to the moderators by private messaging.
2. Material that violates the rules may be edited or deleted without prior notice.
3. Judgments by the Moderators can be discussed with the Moderators via private messaging but not on the board itself. Decisions of the Moderators may be appealed to the Super Moderators.
4. Users who persistently violate the rules will be banned.

 

[MaggieOH]

Wildgraywolf:

I know, but I think he keeps it around for “proof”.

Funny you should mention Jamnia. My father-in-law believes that the Jews at Jamnia rescued the Old Testament from Catholic rewrites. This comes around 1,000 years before the Catholic Church existed (he claims there was no Catholic Church before 1054 a.d… have no idea where he gets his information; I’m not sure I want to either.:banghead: , but that’s another thread…

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif I think that he got some of his information from that hysterically funny and badly written revisionist tract called “The Trail of Blood”. If it did not come from that source then it came from a source that made his own historical (er hysterical) revisions.

MaggieOH

 

[Xavier]

Benadam:

Xavier, with such a legalistic view of Idolatry one can also conclude that by worshipping Christ one is worshipping a graven image. There are those who say just that about christians. Clinging to the standards set by the old testament prevents the eye from seeing the Name of God that Christ carved onto the earth. On the earth of man’s flesh is carved the Name that can’t be uttered. Now all of us have a means to do the same, as Christ said " why do you persecute* me*."

I’m sure you’re aware of the nature of spiritual names. That the name is one with the named. The human eye can’t see the name but the eye of faith can stimulate the intellect to see the name as it was written on the earth by Christ and His followers. The sight of His Name participates in the Vision of what it names, which is God. The material references you call idols are in fact representations of particular facets of that Name and stimulate the intellect to participate in the vision of God.

Don’t be distracted from the idols put before God today that can’t be seen with the eye, by the ones that were conquered yesterday by the Church that could. Today the idols are more sublime and are put before the image of God as man that is the source of human dignity.

It is odd that no one took up my example of contemplatives and how they seek God. This is a tradition that goes on today in many monastaries throughout the world, yet none here seem to either understand it of to find an interest in it.
This is sad really.
Everyone will successfully chase anyone who disagrees with them off this board and what is left is a stagnant set of ideas and concepts.
Who are the legalists here?

 

[MariaG]

posted by xavier

It is odd that no one took up my example of contemplatives and how they seek God. This is a tradition that goes on today in many monastaries throughout the world, yet none here seem to either understand it of to find an interest in it.
This is sad really.
Everyone will successfully chase anyone who disagrees with them off this board and what is left is a stagnant set of ideas and concepts.
Who are the legalists here?

I must have missed it. Where was the post you are referring to?

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Benadam]

Xavier:

It is odd that no one took up my example of contemplatives and how they seek God. This is a tradition that goes on today in many monastaries throughout the world, yet none here seem to either understand it of to find an interest in it.
This is sad really.
Everyone will successfully chase anyone who disagrees with them off this board and what is left is a stagnant set of ideas and concepts.
Who are the legalists here?

I didn’t see your post about contemplatives Xavier, sorry I missed it. I’m not sure what any of this you have written here has to do with the idolatry I specified in my post to you.

Most protestant beliefs are in fact very legalistic. The legalism is deep seated and expressed in these statements " where does it SAY that in the bible?" " the word catholic isn’t even mentioned in the bible" To place all Truth revealed and all authority in a book, even the book containing Holy Scriptures, inherently tends towards a legalistic view because it will be unavoidably viewed as a rule book and even reduced to an idol.

 

[Church_Militant]

Xavier:

It is odd that no one took up my example of contemplatives and how they seek God. This is a tradition that goes on today in many monastaries throughout the world, yet none here seem to either understand it of to find an interest in it.
This is sad really.
Everyone will successfully chase anyone who disagrees with them off this board and what is left is a stagnant set of ideas and concepts.
Who are the legalists here?

**
Quit cryin’…** if you go by the rules then ya don’t get tossed and this site is FAR more tolerant than most of the non-Catholic sites that I’m on (or have been tossed off of).
Look…you can namecall all you want, but you present nothing more than your messed up, oversimplified, interp of out of context passages of the Bible and expect us to fold the Catholic Church? You are being dishonest and obtuse because you refuse to acknowlege the clear context of the graven image part of the 1st commandment, which says that we are not to worship images and treat us like we are idiot children too stupid to know the difference. That’s just wrong…

As for the contemplatives… I AM one. You oversimplify that as well and that is only one such way…also it’s kinda funny that you attempt to appeal to them, when most of them are Catholic. All I see is you grasping at any straw to attack our faith. If you had the least REAL understanding of Catholicism, you’d shut up and listen instead of persistently bashing us with the same old Moslem argument from centuries ago. It was answered then…why resurrect it now? (newadvent.org/cathen/07620a.htm)

Statues, images are an obstacles in our journey to know God.

Your opinion…that’s all…

 

[Benadam]

Church Militant:

Quit cryin’… if you go by the rules then ya don’t get tossed and this site is FAR more tolerant than most of the non-Catholic sites that I’m on (or have been tossed off of).
Look…you can namecall all you want, but you present nothing more than your messed up, oversimplified, interp of out of context passages of the Bible and expect us to fold the Catholic Church? You are being dishonest and obtuse because you refuse to acknowlege the clear context of the graven image part of the 1st commandment, which says that we are not to worship images and treat us like we are idiot children too stupid to know the difference. That’s just wrong…

As for the contemplatives… I AM one. You oversimplify that as well and that is only one such way…also it’s kinda funny that you attempt to appeal to them, when most of them are Catholic. All I see is you grasping at any straw to attack our faith. If you had the least REAL understanding of Catholicism, you’d shut up and listen instead of persistently bashing us with the same old Moslem argument from centuries ago. It was answered then…why resurrect it now? (newadvent.org/cathen/07620a.htm)

Your opinion…that’s all…

the cavalry has arrived.

 

[mercygate]

Xavier:

It is odd that no one took up my example of contemplatives and how they seek God. This is a tradition that goes on today in many monastaries throughout the world, yet none here seem to either understand it of to find an interest in it.
This is sad really.

Well, this is a topic for another thread. But I raise my hand as being guilty of contemplation. Xavier – why not start a thread on contemplative prayer? But I’ll bet few will participate, because contemplatives tend to be reticent.

 

[gomer_tree]

Church Militant:

GT stick around and you’ll meet this fella. You’ll see…

OK, perhaps the responses here are deserved, I don’t know. But I have heard well-meaning people make this charge, and they deserve a charitable reponse.

 

[Church_Militant]

gomer tree:

OK, perhaps the responses here are deserved, I don’t know. But I have heard well-meaning people make this charge, and they deserve a charitable reponse.

I fully agree, but I do know the sincere ones from the A/C “attack dogs”. Charity means NOT doin’ them the way they do US on their sites when we do go there to offer correct and charitable answers to their questions and statements. Have you visited any of their forums?
It’s…enlightening…to say the least.
Pax vobiscum,