Demonic possession and sins?

[Jon_Leveille]

sorry, I meant to say “what lies???”

I will not be able to post again for a few weeks because my classes just started, and I need to pay more attention to them, thanks for having this discussion!!!
May God Bless Your Day

 

[pablope]

pablope;8051647:

sorry, I meant to say “what lies???”

God bless too…I hope you learned a lot just from being here…and do come back in your spare time.

And read the books I recommended.

 

[pablope]

pablope;8051647:

sorry, I meant to say “what lies???”

You can read on your own…it explains why the exorcists need to have the demon reveal his name…

signandsight.com/features/530.html

Why doesn’t he want to reveal his name?

The name discloses his being. Franz Rosenzweig once said the name is not “sound and smoke”, as Goethe says, but “word and fire”. The name Jesus means “God saves”. Isaac, Jacob, all these names have a particular meaning. And it always discloses the person’s being. When I say my name, I’m also saying: I am here. No Demon ever wants to say its name.

And once it’s said it?

At the end, the priest says to the demon, “Go away! Disappear!” The demon usually answers, “No, I don’t want to.” It rebels and revolts. Sometimes it says “You have no power over me. You are nothing to me.” But after a while, its resistance weakens. This usually happens after the invocation of the Holy Mother, she’s very important for that. No demon ever dares to insult her during an exorcism. Never.

 

[fakename]

Don’t have time to look through the thread but, if we don’t know what causes a possession in general, than how do we know that any one thing would.

That is, if we don’t know if certain things naturally cause possessions (since they could be random), then how do we know if ouijia boards naturally produce possessions? Why shouldn’t they produce them in a random fashion and so have no more trend towards causing possessions than anything else? What cause is lurking behind the veil here, or is it just a mystery?

 

[Dorothy]

Don’t have time to look through the thread but, if we don’t know what causes a possession in general, than how do we know that any one thing would.

That is, if we don’t know if certain things naturally cause possessions (since they could be random), then how do we know if ouijia boards naturally produce possessions? Why shouldn’t they produce them in a random fashion and so have no more trend towards causing possessions than anything else? What cause is lurking behind the veil here, or is it just a mystery?

Basically, seeking things that are forbidden in Scripture offends God. If we seek to love Him, worship Him and glorify Him, then we do not have to be concerned about being possessed by evil spirits.

 

[Luke1983]

Some people say that the devil can possess you for having too many mortal sins. But also people say that there is no obvious cause for possessions and they seem to be random. So which is it, or is it that mortal sins are necessary but not sufficient conditions for possession?

Can different types of mortal sins dispose you more towards possession?

just curious -not trying to get in contact with the devil.

Many possessions aren’t real possessions but psychological pathologies. The first thing a priest does is call a psychiatrist and doctor to make sure it is not just a mental illness.
Many so called possessed either suffer from schytzophrenia, nevrosis or other mental pathologies.

When a doctor tells the priest that he does not know what the person has then and only then does the priest intervene.

It is mostly Saints or very religious people who become possessed. Not the opposite. Sinners are already sinners. I have never heard of an atheist become possessed by a demon for example.

Much of it is unfortunately self-suggestion which is why priests call psychiatrists in the first place.

 

[Little_One0307]

It is mostly Saints or very religious people who become possessed. Not the opposite. Sinners are already sinners. I have never heard of an atheist become possessed by a demon for example. QUOTE]

Can you cite sources to support this statement? Or is this a personal belief? Just because one does not hear of something happening does that preclude it not being able to happen?

God bless.

 

[Dorothy]

Many possessions aren’t real possessions but psychological pathologies. The first thing a priest does is call a psychiatrist and doctor to make sure it is not just a mental illness.
Many so called possessed either suffer from schytzophrenia, nevrosis or other mental pathologies.

When a doctor tells the priest that he does not know what the person has then and only then does the priest intervene.

It is mostly Saints or very religious people who become possessed. Not the opposite. Sinners are already sinners. I have never heard of an atheist become possessed by a demon for example.

Much of it is unfortunately self-suggestion which is why priests call psychiatrists in the first place.

Saints or very religious people may be harassed but not possessed by evil spirits. It seems that using the wrong words can generate a wrong understanding.

 

[fakename]

Basically, seeking things that are forbidden in Scripture offends God. If we seek to love Him, worship Him and glorify Him, then we do not have to be concerned about being possessed by evil spirits.

So every sin is equally likely to cause possession? But again why are ouijia boards more dangerous if every sin is equally likely to cause possession?

 

[Little_One0307]

Saints or very religious people may be harassed but not possessed by evil spirits. It seems that using the wrong words can generate a wrong understanding.

Actually there are cases of saints and religious people being possessed. It has been documented throughout history and I know that some of the previous posts in this thread address this.

God bless.

 

[Dorothy]

So every sin is equally likely to cause possession? But again why are ouijia boards more dangerous if every sin is equally likely to cause possession?

Every sin is not equally likely to cause possession, unless it is deeply ingrained, very depraved, and has gone on for many years.

Ouija boards are dangerous because the person is seeking knowledge from a source other than God. Scripture is clear about that.

 

[Dorothy]

Actually there are cases of saints and religious people being possessed. It has been documented throughout history and I know that some of the previous posts in this thread address this.

God bless.

I am definitely not an expert on this topic, and the semantics does confuse me. I always thought of possession as something that the person invited in by the actions of their sinful lifestyle.

 

[PeterGStanley]

Saw The Exorcism of Martha by Father Jose Antonio Fortea on TV and they were claiming God would not allow the last demon to leave because God wants people to know demons and possession are real , the girl is protected by gods grace - this whole thing was pretty scary.

 

[fakename]

Every sin is not equally likely to cause possession, unless it is deeply ingrained, very depraved, and has gone on for many years.

Ouija boards are dangerous because the person is seeking knowledge from a source other than God. Scripture is clear about that.

Again though, either we don’t know what causes possession -in which case we can’t know why ouijia boards cause it more often, or we think that everyone is equally likely to be possessed, in which case it is impossible that ouijia boards do cause more possessions.

Perhaps there is a third way -we don’t know why possessions happen but we do know that some things are more prone to it or tend towards it more (like ouijia boards). OR perhaps we know that possessions are randomly distributed but this doesn’t allow some average pattern from emerging -like a bell curve or something so that the frequency of possessions don’t have to be equal.

Thoughts?

 

[MtnDwellar]

Thoughts?

Read my post - #2

The spiritual world is vast and complex. It is so vast that nearly any statement is true in some circumstance. Generalizations are rough.

 

[fakename]

I think I’ve found an answer to my questions at least:

newadvent.org/summa/1114.htm#article1

In this treatise, Aquinas talks about the causes of demonic assaults. Now the causes are 1) punishment for sins, 2) to incite humans to sin.

So all assualts have these causes, but all possessions are assualts, so all possessions have these causes. I’m pretty sure that’s valid.

So all people get possessed either as a punishment or to incite people to sin. But since the will is still free in possessed people then it’s more probable that possession is a punishment. But then how do we explain possessions of saints?

can demons affect the will of possessed persons through a possession?

 

[pablope]

I think I’ve found an answer to my questions at least:

newadvent.org/summa/1114.htm#article1

So all people get possessed either as a punishment or to incite people to sin. But since the will is still free in possessed people then it’s more probable that possession is a punishment.

But then how do we explain possessions of saints?
can demons affect the will of possessed persons through a possession?

Possession of saints is allowed by God, for God’s purpose.

Quote:
stgemmagalgani.com/2010/09/attacks-by-demons-was-st-gemma-ever.html

There is however, a belief among certain exorcists and theologians that God will allow certain victim souls such as Gemma to actually become possessed, so that the battle for the conversion of sinners actually takes place within them. Thus they [the victim souls] become the “stakes” in the battle. There is one old booklet in particular, published in the early 1900’s and written by a very experienced exorcist of 30 years that delves very deeply into this idea.

Another interesting article: Mary crushes the serpent.

mysticsofthechurch.com/2010/09/mary-crushes-serpent-virgin-marys-role.html

 

[Little_One0307]

I am definitely not an expert on this topic, and the semantics does confuse me. I always thought of possession as something that the person invited in by the actions of their sinful lifestyle.

Dorthy,

I used to think like you too, until I started studying excorcism and began reading about demonology, of course with the blessing of my Spiritual Director/Confessor.

When it happens to saints and religious people, many sources have said that it helps them to grow in holiness and the virtues. Also it may help them to fufill their temporal punishment for their sins here on earth, rather than having to go to purgatory to suffer their temporal punishement there.

When things of this nature happen, it is best to keep in mind that God allows evil in the world for two reasons. 1. free will and 2 to bring a greater good out of it.

Not all possessions were due because someone invited the demons in due to sin. Some cases the victim was innocent with no wrong doing.

God bless.

 

[Little_One0307]

I think I’ve found an answer to my questions at least:

newadvent.org/summa/1114.htm#article1

In this treatise, Aquinas talks about the causes of demonic assaults. Now the causes are 1) punishment for sins, 2) to incite humans to sin.

So all assualts have these causes, but all possessions are assualts, so all possessions have these causes. I’m pretty sure that’s valid.

So all people get possessed either as a punishment or to incite people to sin. But since the will is still free in possessed people then it’s more probable that possession is a punishment. But then how do we explain possessions of saints?

can demons affect the will of possessed persons through a possession?

Hi,

God allows possession for two reasons it can be said that God allows evil for two reasons as well] 1. free will and 2. to bring a greater good out of it.

The statement where you say that ALL possessions have these causes is false. There are instances and cases where it is documented that the possessed person did not sin and was in a state of grace. See the post that I previously posted about the possession of saints.

Demons cannot change the Will of a person. God himself will not change the will of a person. For example, I can will to kill someone all that I want, but God may not allow me to do so. However by his not allowing me to kill that person, does not change the fact that I want to kill him with all my will. Demons can compel the possessed to do things against their will, but they cannot force them to change their will. Only the possessor of the Will can change their will.

Also demons cannot have union with the possessed’s soul. Only God can have union with the soul.

God bless.

 

[Dorothy]

Dorthy,

I used to think like you too, until I started studying excorcism and began reading about demonology, of course with the blessing of my Spiritual Director/Confessor.

When it happens to saints and religious people, many sources have said that it helps them to grow in holiness and the virtues. Also it may help them to fufill their temporal punishment for their sins here on earth, rather than having to go to purgatory to suffer their temporal punishement there.

When things of this nature happen, it is best to keep in mind that God allows evil in the world for two reasons. 1. free will and 2 to bring a greater good out of it.

Not all possessions were due because someone invited the demons in due to sin. Some cases the victim was innocent with no wrong doing.

God bless.

Thank you, I understand that better now.