Disagreeing with Canceling Holy Week

[LilyM]

Far fewer masses are being said. The mass is necessary for our salvation.

Wrong. Mass is absolutely still being said as often as before, the public aren’t physically attending (so that priests can continue to stay healthy to say them) is all. Remember a large percentage of our priests are elderly and so at higher risk of bad complications if they get sick.

 

[phil19034]

PatK63:

Far fewer masses are being said. The mass is necessary for our salvation.

Wrong. Mass is absolutely still being said as often as before, the public aren’t physically attending (so that priests can continue to stay healthy to say them) is all. Remember a large percentage of our priests are elderly and so at higher risk of bad complications if they get sick.

This is a very good point!

If the Church around the world didn’t suspend public masses, we could have a ton of our priests (esp the ones over 50) dying all around the world and wind up with a bigger priest shortage than we currently have.

I don’t know if this was a conscious thought of the Bishops, but it surely is a positive reason for suspending public mass.

God Bless

 

[puer.dei]

Far fewer masses are being said.

Source, please?

 

[JoeFreedom]

At this point, that is already true. Our economy has taken a massive hit. 3.3 million without jobs, and that number will rise considerably. People’s life savings wiped out. Hundreds of thousands of businesses gone. People will not just back to the old ways, because people will be too afraid to go out and be anywhere near other people. It could be 18 months before a vaccination and everyone’s psyche’s are considerably different, their world-view different. Spending and activity habits altered for a considerable amount of time, potentially years. If this flares up, people we retreat even farther, and we will react by shutting down again, furthering ourselves into deeper and deeper holes.

This summer is essentially toast. I’d love to go to our theme park nearby, but those paid-for season passes are useless, as the park will not open because it is deemed too unsafe to be on rides together.

When I go out for the essentials, which is not often, many people look at you like you are “death himself”. This is how we will many people will be treated, if not silently in their own hearts, for months to come.

 

[Emeraldlady]

This summer is essentially toast. I’d love to go to our theme park nearby, but those paid-for season passes are useless, as the park will not open because it is deemed too unsafe to be on rides together.

This is still a first world problem. In most parts of the developing world you’d never hear that whinge ever for any reason.

 

[JoeFreedom]

For crying out loud. It was an example. Most people want to come here because of our prosperity, which has been shared with the world beyond compare.

People will not go out to eat.
They will not go out to stores.
They will not travel.
They will not stay at hotels.
They will not do things.

All of these things means the economy will stink as a result and the rest of the world (those who benefit from our prosperity) will suffer.

 

[Emeraldlady]

For crying out loud. It was an example. Most people want to come here because of our prosperity, which has been shared with the world beyond compare.

People will not go out to eat.
They will not go out to stores.
They will not travel.
They will not stay at hotels.
They will not do things.

All of these things means the economy will stink as a result and the rest of the world (those who benefit from our prosperity) will suffer.

And if we don’t but the economy on the backburner for the sake of defeating this virus, millions of people will die. What’s the choice?

 

[JoeFreedom]

I’m not going to go around and around on that topic.

 

[Emeraldlady]

I’m not going to go around and around on that topic.

There is no round and round to be had. There is only one option.

 

[JoeFreedom]

Round and round we go… your opinion is your opinion.

and… round and round we go…

Is this going to be a “who gets the last word?” because if so, you can have it. Ready…GO.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Round and round we go… your opinion is your opinion.

Only someone with their head in the sand or heartless dictator would put the economy ahead of millions dying.

 

[PatK63]

@puer.dei
My parish has 7 masses for Sunday obligation normally. Now the two priest con celebrate one mass! I know other parishes doing the same. What is your parish doing?

 

[pnewton]

Far fewer masses are being said. The mass is necessary for our salvation.

I see. But it is not actually true that Mass is necessary for salvation, not according to the teaching of the Church. We know people can be saved without attending Mass. We also know that even Catholics do not have to attend a certain number of times, or every week without exception, for salvation. You speak of faith. Then have faith that God is merciful. Trust God that in his mercy he does not withhold salvation due to something like public Mass being suspended.

It is likely that fewer Masses are being said. However, the Mass is not magic in that there is a magic number to make God listen. One Mass has all the grace of God available, depending on our disposition, as it is not the Sacrifice of Calvary (once for all given), but a representation of that Sacrifice. The number is not as important as the actual sacrifice. Think of the night of that first sacrifice, when Jesus was in the garden. He spoke to the guards who arrested him to clarify who they were after. In doing so, even at his passion, he protected the physical lives of his disciples. The Church also values the physical lives of all as invaluably precious. What is being done now, the protection of human life, is a type of representation of that same act of Jesus before he was taken from the garden.

 

[JoeFreedom]

I’ll chat with you since you have respectfully disagreed, rather than call me a heartless dictator. I do not share the same feeling you do with the economy and I, along with others out there, do feel that this could cause more deaths in the long run from other things.

But let me say this. I do not want to rehash that out here, over and over again.

My post that I originally responded to you was not about rehashing those different viewpoints, but I was in fact agreeing with you, that “our lives will never be as they were”. It was that point I was trying to elaborate on and agree with, as I tried to state, maybe not so well.

 

[phil19034]

@puer.dei
My parish has 7 masses for Sunday obligation normally. Now the two priest con celebrate one mass! I know other parishes doing the same. What is your parish doing?

The parishes by me are celebrating either celebrating all the masses they took intentions for or at LEAST one mass per priest.

@patk63 what you are describing has NOT been my experience. However, I could understand it they were celebrating 2 masses a day instead of 7. But going from 7 to 1 concelebrated Mass is not typical.

NOTE: now I can also understand if they are only broadcasting online one concelebrated mass, as long as they are still praying the mass for the intentions they have received. I can also see them giving 6 of the masses other priests to celebrate for stipends instead of keeping them at the parish.

Point - there might be more going on here than you know.

 

[JoeFreedom]

What does our faith in Christ have to do with the economy? I don’t mean to be condescending here, because maybe I’m misunderstanding, but as a Catholic, faith in God doesn’t mean all will turn out for the best in this life. For example, I can trust in God all I want as my plane loses all power and is crashing to the ground, but it doesn’t mean I will live. If I trust in God and follow Christ, and act in such a way according to His will, then I can have reasonable hope that I will die in a state of grace and go to Heaven.

 

[JoeFreedom]

I don’t have serious doubts that we will come back. I believe that, today. But I do believe that the impact that is already real will continue to get worse and it may take two years, five years or ten years to get back, depending how long we lock down. If we were to go “back to normal” today, which obviously we won’t or can’t, it will take at least a year to get back to some normalcy. But this will probably continue through May… and only God knows what the impact will be. A global recession could take place, in which our country would struggle for a long time, and there is a possibility (what % I do not know) that we do not recover. There are only two guarantees in life (taxes and death), and countries coming back from things is not. In fact, many countries/empires no longer exist, and that fact has been part of history for millennia.

Listen, I’m all for being hopeful, I am, but I also want to prepare for the worst. What’s that old saying? Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

 

[VonDerTann]

Sorry, Joe, I respectfully disagree.

The country has been through a lot and it will get through this. Will there be pain? Of course. But are we really going to see everyone lose their life savings? I doubt it - unless they have no savings to begin with. People’s 401(k)s will take a hit…but the only ones who see a huge loss are those who panic sell. Lenders are working with borrowers and businesses. Many segments of the economy will do fine. There will even be opportunities for growth: why should we trust china to make our masks; surgical gowns; and drugs?

The market will recover. It always does. Dow went from 7000 in 2008 to 28000 this year.

Could people lose homes? Sure.
However many states are ordering their foreclosure processes to cease until further notice. Lastly, some will doubtless have great difficulty - but maybe that will serve as a wake up call that you can’t have a huge car payment and mortgage and no savings.

Sheesh, I can’t believe the number of Americans who can’t handle the loss of just ONE paycheck, but there will always be some component of folks who we’re unable to help in every crisis despite the best intentions.

 

[Emeraldlady]

In fact, many countries/empires no longer exist, and that fact has been part of history for millennia.

That’s true but what can you do? It happens, acts of God, pandemics what could those places have done differently to make a better outcome?

 

[JoeFreedom]

I did not say “everyone”, did I?

Again, I also said it probably recover. I said I believe that today. Please read what I said. In another month from now, the recovery will take longer and will be worse. That is what I said. But the fact remains, millions of people are suffering now, today. Like you said, people losing their houses.

I will agree with you that I do hope people learn from this. One, don’t overspend, and save what you can and live within your means. Second, and it is true, that the vast majority of the people who die DO have underlying co-morbidities. I would hope that people who have brought them upon themselves by smoking to excess, drinking to excess, eating junk food and never exercising will get a wake up call that healthy people are recovering in vast numbers comparitively to unhealthy people.

So let’s not go black or white. Yes, the disease has impacted all people of all types of all ages. Let’s not go around and around on that either.