Disruptive little ones at Mass

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I can handle crying babies at Mass much better than I can adults who chat, whisper and giggle before Mass and whenever there’s a moment of silence.

With all the noise surrounding me, I long for silence.
 
TBolt1000T said:
I’m very sorry that I’ve hit a bad nerve with some people. All I was trying to do was to find out whether I did the right thing in that situation, but it looks like I’ve caused a firestorm. Maybe if I had used a different title for this thread, it may not have hit such a bad nerve…

Again, I’m really sorry if I offended anyone.
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Don’t apologize. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and this thread has been great. I don’t think there was anything here to truly offend. This thread should get a prize for maintaining the most interest.👍
 
Discipline Of Children

Proverbs 13:24
Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.

Proverbs 22:15
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him.

Hebrews 12:11
For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Proverbs 19:18
Discipline your son, for there is hope; do not set your heart on putting him to death.

Proverbs 29:17
Discipline your son, and he will give you rest; he will give delight to your heart.

Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.

Hebrews 12:5-11
And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? …

Proverbs 23:13-15
Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol. My son, if your heart is wise, my heart too will be glad.

Proverbs 29:15
The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left to himself brings shame to his mother.

Ephesians 6:1-4
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. “Honor your father and mother” (this is the first commandment with a promise), “that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.” Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Proverbs 12:1
Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

Proverbs 13:1
A wise son hears his father’s instruction, but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke.

Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light, and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life,

Hebrews 12:9
Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?

Hebrews 12:5-6
And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”

Romans 16:17
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

Proverbs 10:17
Whoever heeds instruction is on the path to life, but he who rejects reproof leads others astray.

Exodus 20:12
“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

Galatians 6:1
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

Isaiah 53:1-12
Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. …

Proverbs 15:32
Whoever ignores instruction despises himself, but he who listens to reproof gains intelligence.

Proverbs 15:5
A fool despises his father’s instruction, but whoever heeds reproof is prudent.

Psalm 127:3
Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward.
 
Biblioassistant said:
I can handle crying babies at Mass much better than I can adults who chat, whisper and giggle before Mass and whenever there’s a moment of silence.

With all the noise surrounding me, I long for silence.
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Wooo doggie…I agree. I had a woman sit three rows behind me who was apparently instructing a 12 - 13 year old in the mass. She whispered during the entire mass and she had a very annoying inflection. Everytime she came to a ‘s’ she made kind of a hissing sound. Really annoying.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike
 
marci said:
Discipline Of Children

Proverbs 13:24
Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.

Proverbs 22:15
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him.

Hebrews 12:11
For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Proverbs 19:18
Discipline your son, for there is hope; do not set your heart on putting him to death.

Proverbs 29:17
Discipline your son, and he will give you rest; he will give delight to your heart.

Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.

Hebrews 12:5-11
And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? …

Proverbs 23:13-15
Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol. My son, if your heart is wise, my heart too will be glad.

Proverbs 29:15
The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left to himself brings shame to his mother.

Ephesians 6:1-4
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. “Honor your father and mother” (this is the first commandment with a promise), “that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.” Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Proverbs 12:1
Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

Proverbs 13:1
A wise son hears his father’s instruction, but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke.

Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light, and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life,

Hebrews 12:9
Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?

Hebrews 12:5-6
And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”

Romans 16:17
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

Proverbs 10:17
Whoever heeds instruction is on the path to life, but he who rejects reproof leads others astray.

Exodus 20:12
“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

Galatians 6:1
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

Isaiah 53:1-12
Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. …

Proverbs 15:32
Whoever ignores instruction despises himself, but he who listens to reproof gains intelligence.

Proverbs 15:5
A fool despises his father’s instruction, but whoever heeds reproof is prudent.

Psalm 127:3
Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward.
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Great quotes…but in today’s permissive society if you used a rod you’d end up in Leavenworth.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike
 
In our parish the church has had such a problem with people complaining about noisy children it finally distributed in the pews a pamphlet explaining how children should not be removed from the church and the congregation will have to deal with it. Why? Because unlike you, children are not yet attending by choice. Removal is going to make them feel a bit unwanted and you don’t want that to slowly turn into wandering away in the future. Next time a kid is loud, although it may be frustrating to you, just smile knowing you’re doing your part by not making a big fuss. Just sit in the front next time, then you’ll hear just fine.
 
catholicpublish said:
In our parish the church has had such a problem with people complaining about noisy children it finally distributed in the pews a pamphlet explaining how children should not be removed from the church and the congregation will have to deal with it. Why? Because unlike you, children are not yet attending by choice. Removal is going to make them feel a bit unwanted and you don’t want that to slowly turn into wandering away in the future. Next time a kid is loud, although it may be frustrating to you, just smile knowing you’re doing your part by not making a big fuss. Just sit in the front next time, then you’ll hear just fine.
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That of course is completely ridiculous. This is about the mass and prayer not about child training. The church nave is not a day care center. I certainly will make a fuss with the parents, if appropriate, with the liturgy committee, the parish priest, the bishop etc. This problem is soooooo easily solved, keep the kids under control.

What are you kidding…you might make a 3 year old feel a bit unwanted for taking them out of mass if they misbehave. I suppose you disagree with any form of discipline then. Do you think putting them in time out makes them feel a bit unwanted? How about shushing them, does that attack their little self esteem? How about scolding them…oh, could that damage their fragile inner child?. How about telling them not to touch something, or run with a pair of scissors, or kick the dog, or pull their sisters hair…

Did you every wonder why there is so little reverence shown at a Catholic Novus Ordo mass? Well, this is one of the reasons.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike
 
Iowa_Mike said:
…Everytime she came to a ‘s’ she made kind of a hissing sound. Really annoying.
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This is a feature of the English language. Listen to the “Our Father”, how many “S” sounds we have in “trespasses”, for instance.
 
I have to wonder too… if for some children removing them from Mass is a “reward” which means they will continue the behavior. It can be a tough nut to crack if that’s the case. How do you not reward the child by giving them what they want for acting bad–all the while while not disturbing people around you.

Luckily, I haven’t had that problem with my daughter. Times I’ve had to remove her it’s always been because she was tired. This happens to me the most on Holy Days of obligation where I have to go to Mass after work, at 7 pm. Unfortunately, 8 pm is bedtime and she starts getting fussy and whiny. I tell my daughter if she is tired she can lie down in the pew–many times she does and falls asleep. I hope that doesn’t offend anyone, it’s not my intent… but I can’t help it if it does.

No, my problem is she just constantly asks me questions during Mass. Sometimes the same one several times, “but ‘why’ mommy?” But she whispers into my ear, so I don’t think it’s too disruptive.

Sometimes I wish my Church offered a children’s Mass/family Mass. I would go to that in a heartbeat. Maybe something where there was shorter singing (we sing every line of every song and we sing some of the prayers. It’s lovely, but it makes Mass last longer and tries a child’s patience). A more child friendly homily would be nice too–either in theme or length. It’s when Mass starts going over an hour that I notice most kids becoming fidgety. Most times we are at Mass for an hour and fifteen minutes to an hour and a half.

Another idea would be to give kids something to do in the bulletin. My mom’s Church offers a coloring page based on the Gospel and other little “games.” Not that they need it, her Mass is a mere 40 minutes, tops! It’s just a small Church. Something to keep the kids occupied while keeping the theme in line with the lessons of the readings.

As for the person who mentioned the kids that come every week and bang toys… maybe talk to the priest and have an announcements that parents bring quieter toys/softer toys (along with the announcement to turn off cell phones).

BTW: I am talking mainly about fidgety/bored kids. Not misbehaving ones. While the two can be close and related, I think they are different. It’s hard to discipline a kid of being bored. You can stop any disruptive behavior–but ideally you control the situation so it doesn’t get to that point. I am just trying to think of ideas before the behavior gets to a disrupting level.
 
JHow said:
This is a feature of the English language. Listen to the “Our Father”, how many “S” sounds we have in “trespasses”, for instance.
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Since my native language is English I do understand the ‘S’ sound but not the shrill almost whistle sound she was making. It could be heard all over the place and she was whisssssssspering.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike
 
mellowcalico said:
I have to wonder too… if for some children removing them from Mass is a “reward” which means they will continue the behavior. It can be a tough nut to crack if that’s the case. How do you not reward the child by giving them what they want for acting bad–all the while while not disturbing people around you.

Luckily, I haven’t had that problem with my daughter. Times I’ve had to remove her it’s always been because she was tired. This happens to me the most on Holy Days of obligation where I have to go to Mass after work, at 7 pm. Unfortunately, 8 pm is bedtime and she starts getting fussy and whiny. I tell my daughter if she is tired she can lie down in the pew–many times she does and falls asleep. I hope that doesn’t offend anyone, it’s not my intent… but I can’t help it if it does.

No, my problem is she just constantly asks me questions during Mass. Sometimes the same one several times, “but ‘why’ mommy?” But she whispers into my ear, so I don’t think it’s too disruptive.

Sometimes I wish my Church offered a children’s Mass/family Mass. I would go to that in a heartbeat. Maybe something where there was shorter singing (we sing every line of every song and we sing some of the prayers. It’s lovely, but it makes Mass last longer and tries a child’s patience). A more child friendly homily would be nice too–either in theme or length. It’s when Mass starts going over an hour that I notice most kids becoming fidgety. Most times we are at Mass for an hour and fifteen minutes to an hour and a half.

Another idea would be to give kids something to do in the bulletin. My mom’s Church offers a coloring page based on the Gospel and other little “games.” Not that they need it, her Mass is a mere 40 minutes, tops! It’s just a small Church. Something to keep the kids occupied while keeping the theme in line with the lessons of the readings.

As for the person who mentioned the kids that come every week and bang toys… maybe talk to the priest and have an announcements that parents bring quieter toys/softer toys (along with the announcement to turn off cell phones).

BTW: I am talking mainly about fidgety/bored kids. Not misbehaving ones. While the two can be close and related, I think they are different. It’s hard to discipline a kid of being bored. You can stop any disruptive behavior–but ideally you control the situation so it doesn’t get to that point. I am just trying to think of ideas before the behavior gets to a disrupting level.
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You have a good point, it really does depend on the child. It could be like rewarding a child for complaining when they don’t get a toy they want by giving them the toy! It all depends on circumstance.

The biggest church in our parish actually has a separate room for children off the side of the sanctuary where you can bring your child to mass if you like, the problem being you can’t see anything! Some elderly actually use it due to its closer proximity for hearing purposes. One of the newer churches has “cry room” which is a room in the back of the church with a glass window and pew - the name is literal, little kids can go in there and make some serious noise while attending mass. Such structures are real privileges!
 
corsair said:
I can fully appreciate your problem. My wife and I raised 7 children. We never let our kids carry on like that in church. If they became too noisy we got up and hauled them outside, where we tried to talk to them about being quiet. When they calmed down we brought them in again. We used to think that we would never get to sit through a whole Mass, but as they grew up things changed.

The problem with many parents today, is that they pay no attention to the little ones. The parents seem to think that little Johnny is sooo cute that all folks just love him. Which is not the case.

I think that about all you can do is to sit up front and hope the priest will get tired of the same thing and talk to the parents in private.
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It seems to me that parents with more kids are more aware of disruptiveness and more willing to straighten out their kids. I once watched over my cousin’s 7 children and they all sat quietly, watching a movie. Then I had a friend who only had 2 children and would let them do what they want, and give them whatever they can afford. When I’d have problems with their child, they’d tell me, “It’s ok. You’re just not good with kids.”
 
corsair said:
The problem with many parents today, is that they pay no attention to the little ones. The parents seem to think that little Johnny is sooo cute that all folks just love him. Which is not the case…
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Ouch. I can think of very few little ones are ARENT sooo cute and that I don’t love. That seems like such a harsh statement.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Sadly you cannot do this anymore today here in North America. I was brought up by spanking and I am a firm believer in it. My dad never beat me up, but I got spanked when I misbehaved. It can be done at home but unfortunately not in public.
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I used to believe in spanking too, until I looked into it a bit more. Research shows that hitting a child does not provide the best long term outcome…it simply frightens the child into behaving for the wrong reasons.
 
Dymphna82 said:
It seems to me that parents with more kids are more aware of disruptiveness and more willing to straighten out their kids. I once watched over my cousin’s 7 children and they all sat quietly, watching a movie. Then I had a friend who only had 2 children and would let them do what they want, and give them whatever they can afford. When I’d have problems with their child, they’d tell me, “It’s ok. You’re just not good with kids.”
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Perhaps by the time they have that many, they have refined their parenting techniques for the youngest, and the oldest are big enough to behave?

Here is what I think is the best plan if there are parents who are struggling. Make friends with them, and offer to have a child sit with you. Kids are often much better behaved for people who are not their own parents. My own three year old, who is a real handful, was actually good in church this week for a full 29 minutes when she was sitting with one of the teens who helps out in Sunday school, and I actually got to spend a few moments making sure my older daughter was not whispering to her friend in the next pew.
 
Bluegoat said:
Perhaps by the time they have that many, they have refined their parenting techniques for the youngest, and the oldest are big enough to behave?

Here is what I think is the best plan if there are parents who are struggling. Make friends with them, and offer to have a child sit with you. Kids are often much better behaved for people who are not their own parents. My own three year old, who is a real handful, was actually good in church this week for a full 29 minutes when she was sitting with one of the teens who helps out in Sunday school, and I actually got to spend a few moments making sure my older daughter was not whispering to her friend in the next pew.
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What a wonderful idea!
 
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