Do Catholics believe John 6:53?

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inkaneer said:
Protestants want to think that in John 6 when Jesus says, “My words are spirit…” that He means they are figurative or symbolic and not literal. But that is nonsense. From the passage it is clear that the Jews and Jesus’ own disciples understood Jesus literally. It is also clear that they understood Him to be speaking physically. Jesus knew this. This is why He said “My words are spirit…” Jesus was indeed speaking literally but not physically. He was speaking spiritually. Thus the contrast between the manna in the dessert which fed God’s people physically and the Eucharist which feeds God’s people spiritually. People who ate the manna all eventually died because it only fed their physical bodies but the people who eat the Eucharist will all live because it feeds their spiritual soul. Scripture says that the jews and some of His own disciples left Him and He watched them walk away. If they misunderstood Him thinking he was talking literally when He was speaking figuratively then Jesus owed them an explanation, at least to His own disciples. Jesus always explained His parables to them. But Jesus offers them no explanation other than His words were spiritual and not physical. He offers no explanation that He was speaking figuratively because He wasn’t. He was being very literal. The only explanation He gives was that His words were spiritual not physical. Had Jesus been speaking figuratively and did not explain that, at least His own disciples, then Jesus commits a sin by allowing people to abandoned their salvation because of their misunderstanding that Jesus was aware of but did not try to resolve. Peter’s response for the Apostles indicates they were not sure what Jesus meant but they were not going to leave Him. They probably understood better at the Last Supper and they certainly understood on Pentecost when they received the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit.
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I am still waiting for an answer as to how the priest changes this bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ, do you know. Or can you show me the authority that he uses to do so, and is this authority in scripture, or something out of the Roman catholic church. I am curious as to how he does it, maybe you are too. For such an important thing, it surley must be written somewhere Ralph
 
ralphy said:
God was talking about people who came earlier in life, later in life, or very late in life to receive Him
as their Savior. They all were entitled to go to heaven. He was saying that it did not matter when you got saved, as long as you did. Don’t make it complicated, just accept it as it is. Ralph
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This parable would be more easily understood than, as a wedding feast. But Jesus clearly shows that we have to participate in the promise.

Those workers in the parable are working. Don’t make it complicated, just accept it as it is. John
 
BereanRuss said:
Welcome. Do you believe that Jesus is talking about the Eucharist here? If so, then do you believe that the only place to obtain the Eucharist is in the CC? If so, why does the CC teach that those outside of the CC can be saved without eating the flesh and drinking the blood of the Jesus especially when Jesus said, “Amen, amen I say to you…”?
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By some miracle, they might be saved. It is up to God to make the miracle, though. I would not, myself, entrust my salvation to the off-chance of a miracle, if God happens to feel like giving me one. The ordinary means of salvation - how we get into the life of Christ and on to the Way of the Cross, which is the Way of Salvation - is to be a Catholic and to practice the Catholic faith, devoutly and to the best of one’s ability. Christ established the Catholic Church for this very reason; not just because He felt like making trouble for Protestants. 😉
If the CC truly believed the words of Jesus the CC would teach that only those who receive communion from the CC have life - just as Jesus clearly says.
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This is one of the steps in the ordinary means of salvation, yes. 🙂
 
ralphy said:
I am still waiting for an answer as to how the priest changes this bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ, do you know. Or can you show me the authority that he uses to do so, and is this authority in scripture, or something out of the Roman catholic church. I am curious as to how he does it, maybe you are too. For such an important thing, it surley must be written somewhere Ralph
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The priests repeats the words of Christ and Christ does the rest. Are you willing to read essays on it, because its not a 3 sentence explanation. I know BereanRuss doesn’t read attachments, but I don’t know if you do.
 
ralphy said:
I am still waiting for an answer as to how the priest changes this bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ, do you know. Or can you show me the authority that he uses to do so, and is this authority in scripture, or something out of the Roman catholic church. I am curious as to how he does it, maybe you are too. For such an important thing, it surley must be written somewhere Ralph
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Jesus displaces the substance of the bread and the wine (which is then transferred into Heaven) and replaces it with the substance of Himself - body and blood, soul, and divinity - during the time of the Consecration, during the Mass. The time of the Consecration is the part that begins with the words, “The day before he suffered, he took bread …” It ends with the people responding, “Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ Jesus, come in glory!” or some words to that effect.

Later in the Mass, there is a second elevation in which the priest raises up the chalice and host, saying, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world!” The people respond, “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word, and I shall be healed.”
 
ralphy said:
If you are accepting something thats “free”, I don’t consider it work to accept it. If I receive a check from the government every month, do you think that’s “work”.? Read Eph 2:89, (and I probably already asked you to do so befor). Do you see that there is NO “work” involved in receiving this gift. IT IS PAID FOR, and if you have to work for it , then you have earned it,and it is NOT agift. Ralph
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Ralphy,

I do believe that the act of acceptance is a work in and of itself. Every hypothetical you have introduced still requires the act of acceptance. If I received a check from the government every month it still requires my accepting the check. I can refuse the check. The check itself is worthless unless I cash it. Similarly, the gift of salvation (the redemptive act of Christ’s Passion and Cross) is of no worth to the unsaved who do not accept it. Has Christ died for someone like Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins? What is the difference between these extreme examples and you? Is it something that Christ did or is it something that you have done? If Christ has died for us all, what is the difference between the saved and the unsaved? No where have I said or even remotely implied that the gift is not free (gifts are free by definition). I did not say that you had to work to earn the gift, but you have to act to accept it. That action is a work.
 
NotWorthy said:
This parable would be more easily understood than, as a wedding feast. But Jesus clearly shows that we have to participate in the promise.

Those workers in the parable are working. Don’t make it complicated, just accept it as it is. John
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You are Right John, it is a parable and its about timing in life thats all, nothing else, not about working, they could have been in any situation working or not, you missed the parable if you miss that. Ralph
 
jmcrae said:
By some miracle, they might be saved. It is up to God to make the miracle, though. I would not, myself, entrust my salvation to the off-chance of a miracle, if God happens to feel like giving me one. The ordinary means of salvation - how we get into the life of Christ and on to the Way of the Cross, which is the Way of Salvation - is to be a Catholic and to practice the Catholic faith, devoutly and to the best of one’s ability. Christ established the Catholic Church for this very reason; not just because He felt like making trouble for Protestants.
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It is finished.
 
jmcrae said:
Jesus displaces the substance of the bread and the wine (which is then transferred into Heaven) and replaces it with the substance of Himself - body and blood, soul, and divinity - during the time of the Consecration, during the Mass. The time of the Consecration is the part that begins with the words, “The day before he suffered, he took bread …” It ends with the people responding, “Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ Jesus, come in glory!” or some words to that effect.

Later in the Mass, there is a second elevation in which the priest raises up the chalice and host, saying, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world!” The people respond, “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word, and I shall be healed.”
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You have to be kidding me. Something that important, I am sure that God would have made sure that everyone would be aware of this situation and how to do it. It is obviously a Roman catholic church teaching. How do you answer the other people, the “whosoever will may come”, who do not know this system. Scripture dosen’t say anything about this system. Ralph
 
Berean,

You dodged this question earlier, but I’m honestly curious where you choose to worship (what denomination)? Why have you chosen that particular denomination? If you are unwilling to share this with us, why is that?

Thanks!
 
bradwill911 said:
Ralphy,

I do believe that the act of acceptance is a work in and of itself. Every hypothetical you have introduced still requires the act of acceptance. If I received a check from the government every month it still requires my accepting the check. I can refuse the check. The check itself is worthless unless I cash it. Similarly, the gift of salvation (the redemptive act of Christ’s Passion and Cross) is of no worth to the unsaved who do not accept it. Has Christ died for someone like Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins? What is the difference between these extreme examples and you? Is it something that Christ did or is it something that you have done? If Christ has died for us all, what is the difference between the saved and the unsaved? No where have I said or even remotely implied that the gift is not free (gifts are free by definition). I did not say that you had to work to earn the gift, but you have to act to accept it. That action is a work.
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You know, I think finally understand where you are going with this line of questioning. These Graces, which are a free gift, are offered to all of us. The only difference between me, and say, my neighbor the athiest, is that I accepted this free Gift of Grace and repented and followed Jesus. In other words, I accepted the coffee, while my neighbor said, “no thanks, caffeine gives me a headache”.
 
ralphy said:
You are Right John, it is a parable and its about timing in life thats all, nothing else, not about working, they could have been in any situation working or not, you missed the parable if you miss that. Ralph
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I see. Did you come up with this infallible interpretation by yourself, or with the guidance of someone else?

BTW, I agree the parable is about timing in life, its never too late to go work in the fields. I just heartily disagree that this is the only thing the parable is about. Jesus taught on so many levels, that its rather naive to think there is only one teaching wrapped up in the jewels that are His parables.
 
ralphy said:
You have to be kidding me. **Something that important, I am sure that God would have made sure that everyone would be aware of this situation and how to do it. **It is obviously a Roman catholic church teaching. How do you answer the other people, the “whosoever will may come”, who do not know this system. Scripture dosen’t say anything about this system. Ralph
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You know, this statement is hilarious. The entire Church, all of Christianity, knew how to do it for 1500 years. Then someone up and abandoned the practice.

You are incredibly short-sighted with the above statement. Incredibly Short-sighted, indeed.
 
bradwill911 said:
Berean,

You dodged this question earlier, but I’m honestly curious where you choose to worship (what denomination)? Why have you chosen that particular denomination? If you are unwilling to share this with us, why is that?

Thanks!
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There is a good reason for this question. When one addresses someone of one faith, the differences in beliefs are one thing. When discussing with someone of another faith, the differences in beliefs are entirely something else.
 
NotWorthy said:
There is a good reason for this question. When one addresses someone of one faith, the differences in beliefs are one thing. When discussing with someone of another faith, the differences in beliefs are entirely something else.
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I agree, I’m sure it is helpful for him to know that we are Catholics:D just like it would be helpful for us to know where he is coming from. I think one would be proud of their Church.
 
bradwill911 said:
I agree, I’m sure it is helpful for him to know that we are Catholics:D just like it would be helpful for us to know where he is coming from. I think one would be proud of their Church.
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unless the church is simply a body of believers.
 
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