Do Catholics still support Trump

[anon65111186]

Splitting up families of illegal immigrants.
Reckless regard for civilian casualties–Iraq, Syria, Yemen…
Depriving children of health care. Some will get very sick. Some will die. He is the direct cause of suffering.
Bragging about grabbing women by the pussies.
Not paying his contractors when some of his companies went bankrupt.
Supporting a “tax reform” that will take money from the poor and give it to the rich.
Allowing the entire rest of the world to take on the problem of climate change without the US.
Supporting racism–“good people on both sides…”
Lying. Constantly. Every day.
Playing a game of nuclear chicken with N. Korea

1. Illegal immigrants have the duty to obey the law, and respect the immigration procedures of the USA. Unfortunately, deportation is a consequence of breaking the law at this point. We need immigration reform, but Trump is simply enforcing the law. Catholics want reform but they also respect obeying just laws, and our illegal immigration law is a just law.
2. Civilians die in war and in battles with people who are trying to kill us, this is unavoidable, where is the responsibility of the soldiers, the officers and the generals?
3. Which children are being deprived of healthcare, and have died or have gotten sick?
4. Trump was absolutely wrong in doing that, he shouldn’t have said that. Credit to him that he publicly and formally repented of that sin, if you take it so personally, forgive him and let it go.
5. He should have paid his contractors, we don’t know all the details of why he didn’t pay them, just what we read in the papers.
6. How will the tax reform take from the poor? I was under the impression families would have a double deduction coming up, and companies like AT&T would be giving their employees bonuses this year, and investing billions back into America.
7. If other countries depend on America signing a piece of paper to take on climate change, then they have no sovereignty, which just isn’t true. They can’t blame the US for not signing a non-scientific political statement for not cleaning up their own countries. The Paris accord would ruin our economy, waste billions of dollars and do nothing to effect real change.
8. Taken out of context someone might actually think Trump is racist. However, he denounced in the strongest of terms racists, and said white supremacists and racists have no place in America.
9. How Catholic of you keeping track of others sins for them. Our Lord says “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. Do you wish for others to count your sins? People who don’t even know you? Even I didn’t agree with Obama, I realized it was spiritually toxic and against the good news to hate him or tally his wrongs.
10. Nuclear proliferation experts agree putting pressure on Kim Jeong Eun and his regime and threatening real consequences for building up their arsenal is the right path. He is open to dialogue with them, though he thinks it may not work.

 

[anon65111186]

You totally missed the reverend Deacon’s point. Forgiveness is called for when someone wrongs you and repents of it. In the case of political figures, we have a duty to judge their PUBLIC actions before throwing our support behind them. Trump has indeed said and done some vile things.

I understood his point, he is saying we have to judge the actions of candidates to see if we should vote for them. His actions included reaching directly to Catholics and promising them he would take their side on all the non-negotiable, abortion, euthanasia, same-sex marriage, religious liberty etc.

My point was if the good deacon is taking what Trump says and does as a personal affront to himself, he should forgive and not harbor hatred or ill-will towards the President.

However public a person is, does not allow us as Catholics to engage in culumny, detraction, rash judgement concerning even someone we know well. We must act with charity and try to uphold another’s reputation as our own.

Let us examine whether our culture and even ourselves have followed the Church regarding our political enemies, for me it was Obama, Hillary.

From the Catechism

Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:

• of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
• of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;
• of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.

2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.

2479 Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one’s neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity.

 

[Toolmaker]

President Trump is the president of the United States of America. He has been legally elected and serves all people of the US, even those that do not approve of him.
He is the President. You must try to separate the Man Donald Trump from President Donald Trump who has been elected to serve this country.
I would feel honored to serve the office of the president regardless of who that man is.
As Catholics we should all be very comfortable with this concept. For example, you may not like your parish priest but you would not refuse taking holy communion from him just because you did not like him or approve of his actions. By virtue of his being a priest He is endowed with the power to administer the sacrament.
Presisent Trump is the President of the United States of America. I support the President of the United States and by doing so I support the United States at large.

 

[MamasBoy33]

At least I know now that your heart is with the Church and your priorities are straight and you would choose Christ before politics.

Thank you for your kinds words. Amen Bro bro

 

[PaulinVA]

He is the President. You must try to separate the Man Donald Trump from President Donald Trump who has been elected to serve this country.

I would feel honored to serve the office of the president regardless of who that man is.

NO, if you serve in the Trump administration, you are complicit in the lying, in the lack of respect for the American system. You are complicit in the agenda of dismantling American institutions. You are complicit in the total lack of respect for the American people.

Presisent Trump is the President of the United States of America. I support the President of the United States and by doing so I support the United States at large.

Only, in this case you should support the United States at large by resisting Trump.

 

[MamasBoy33]

He is the President. You must try to separate the Man Donald Trump from President Donald Trump who has been elected to serve this country

That was powerful my bro. Thank you, we need more comments like that and good Catholics like you Amen

 

[MamasBoy33]

Nuclear proliferation experts agree putting pressure on Kim Jeong Eun and his regime and threatening real consequences for building up their arsenal is the right path. He is open to dialogue with them, though he thinks it may not work.

Tim on your whole list regarding what Erika Listed was marvelous stuff. Great job my bro.

 

[anon65111186]

NO, if you serve in the Trump administration, you are complicit in the lying, in the lack of respect for the American system. You are complicit in the agenda of dismantling American institutions. You are complicit in the total lack of respect for the American people.

Just curious, do you watch much CNN? The reason I ask is because you sound just like Don Lemon who said Trump is racist and anyone who continues to work for the Trump administration “is complicit in their racism as well.”

Your talking points echo the secular media to the point it seems like parroting what they say word for word. Like I said, so worldly.

Only, in this case you should support the United States at large by resisting Trump.

I don’t think it is wise to jump on the bandwagon of resist Trump rhetoric and its proponents, many of whom resort to criminal activity to “resist”, and likewise hold many positions in stark opposition to Catholic social teaching on abortion, gay-marriage and the others.

Resisting Trump in such a broad, vague and general sense is not a good idea, especially because it could mean opposing his stances on the issues. Especially when he appoints pro-life judges, signs religious freedom and protection laws and the like. It may scandalize others to think you are resisting those things as well.

Where does your resistance end and your Catholicism and support for Catholic positions begin?

 

[MamasBoy33]

What the situation on the tax bill for people who make about 25k a year.
I think that is considered lower class.

 

[MamasBoy33]

Will they tax me more or less?

 

[PaulinVA]

NO, if you serve in the Trump administration, you are complicit in the lying, in the lack of respect for the American system. You are complicit in the agenda of dismantling American institutions. You are complicit in the total lack of respect for the American people.

Just curious, do you watch much CNN? The reason I ask is because you sound just like Don Lemon who said Trump is racist and anyone who continues to work for the Trump administration “is complicit in their racism as well.”

Your talking points echo the secular media to the point it seems like parroting what they say word for word. Like I said, so worldly.

I watch/read online CNN, MSNBC and Fox. I subscribe to the Washington Post and Wall Street Journal. I get my news from all sides. I read Twitter and follow people from all across the spectrum. I read books.

If the best thing you can say is, “So worldly”, then, whatever.

Resisting Trump in such a broad, vague and general sense is not a good idea, especially because it could mean opposing his stances on the issues. Especially when he appoints pro-life judges, signs religious freedom and protection laws and the like. It may scandalize others to think you are resisting those things as well.

Where does your resistance end and your Catholicism and support for Catholic positions begin?

What you have to understand is that many of the things Trump is doing any President with a Congress held by the same party would have done. It doesn’t take a political genius.

I support pro-life positions. BUT, I will not sell my soul to the devil just to get a President or Senator in office whose very life is the opposite of that of a pro-life christian.

The ends do not justify the means.

 

[Spyridon]

@PaulinVA

I think you’re taking things a bit too far.

There’s a line a person can cross - when you go from simply opposing Trump and thinking he’s not a good person, to being venomous and hateful towards him and anybody even associated with him - that’s going too far. That is not a Catholic attitude.

The Holy Father himself graciously hosted Trump, and Melania. Mold yourself by the example set by Pope Francis.

 

[anon65111186]

What you have to understand is that many of the things Trump is doing any President with a Congress held by the same party would have done. It doesn’t take a political genius.

I support pro-life positions. BUT, I will not sell my soul to the devil just to get a President or Senator in office whose very life is the opposite of that of a pro-life christian.

The ends do not justify the means.

I really am in wonder at how much speculation and conjecture there is these days when it comes to politics. Saying that anyone would be just as well is not reality, we don’t know how well someone else would do because they haven’t done it and could not do it exactly the same way as Trump.

God bless you for supporting pro-life positions, that is great and I commend you in keeping with the faith.

However, what you just said amounts to saying that supporting Trump in realizing Catholic positions is selling your soul to the devil. You know the devil is opposed to the Church and her positions? How would that make sense?

Likewise, does the means of resisting Trump help the country realize anti-abortion legislation, religious freedom, pro marriage policies?

Let’s live in the now, when we have a President who is not going against any of those positions, it is not a time for conjecture on the what if we had another President. We must do our best with what we have, not wishing the grass to be greener and going against the only proper person to sign good bills into legislation.

 

[Spyridon]

@MamasBoy33

I believe right off the bat you will be taxed less, then starting a couple years down the road you will be taxed more.

At least from what I understand anyway.

My grasp of US tax law is slim to none. I am disabled and make under 15k a year so taxes are not applicable to me.

 

[PetraG]

President Trump is the president of the United States of America. He has been legally elected and serves all people of the US, even those that do not approve of him.

He is the President. You must try to separate the Man Donald Trump from President Donald Trump who has been elected to serve this country.

I would feel honored to serve the office of the president regardless of who that man is.

As Catholics we should all be very comfortable with this concept. For example, you may not like your parish priest but you would not refuse taking holy communion from him just because you did not like him or approve of his actions. By virtue of his being a priest He is endowed with the power to administer the sacrament.

Presisent Trump is the President of the United States of America. I support the President of the United States and by doing so I support the United States at large.

This is true to the extent it would have been true had the nation elected Hillary R Clinton.

When he proposes unjust policies or laws, it is our duty to oppose those.

When he acts in ways that are unbecoming to his office, it is our duty to object and to encourage him to represent us in a more becoming way. He is no longer a private citizen; he does not have the luxury to be “Donald Trump the Man” without regard to the diginity of the office he freely sought.

When he fails to choose from among the most qualified candidates when he makes nominations for important offices, it is our duty to oppose that. We have no duty, for instance, to support a judicial nominee who is not fully conversant with the rules under which cases are conducted in court.

Congress has its own duty and authority, as well. Neither those in his party nor those outside it have a duty to comply with the wishes of the President. They have to legislate and make the decisions on behalf of the nation within their jurisdiction according to their own duty as members of Congress. Their role exists to balance his power, not to serve it.

As an aside, let us also remember that in April of 2016, he promised he would be more Presidential. He did bluntly recognize that his behavior was not even what he would call “presidential” and that he would act differently when he was the President and not merely a candidate for the Presidency. He did not do that.

He said many times prior to being elected that he wouldn’t golf as much as his predecessors. He has far exceeded every one of them. That was a bar he set for himself. I have never heard him apologize for his past criticisms on the grounds that he didn’t understand the office then.

He deserves to be treated with the respect due to his office, but he also has a duty to conduct himself according to the dignity of his office. It is not fair to try to have it both ways–that is, to expect him to be treated as different than other men but without expecting him to act differently than other men himself.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Seriously woman. He just tried to get a child molester elected to the Senate. Your adoration of him concerns me greatly.

@SyNoe @twf @Spyridon @anikins @Johnitor9 @ProVobis @ShadrachMA @angel12

Can I please have a show of hands as to how many oppose Muslim child brides and an explanation of where you were when Anthony Weiner was found guilty?

Or is this another thing that a conservative white male from the South isn’t allowed to do but everyone else is?

 

[guanophore]

He has been legally elected and serves all people of the US, even those that do not approve of him.

I agree that he is in that position to serve the people, but I don’t think he has any clue what servant leadership is. He has never had to serve anyone, and seems to have a mindset that everyone should serve him!

I recently watched the documentary on John Adams, and realized how the Founders of the country worked for practically nothing, fought poverty, and spent months and years basically volunteering their time and talents to form this republic. Trump has no framework in his experience for this sort of service.

His attempt to bully the UN into backing his desire to declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel is a good example of how he expects his might and money to make others fall into line. This is not leadership, it is not even good non servant leadership.

It was noted that he had excluded the US from taking leadership role in negotiations due to this move. Maybe that is better, because he has not shown any evidence that he can negotiate either!

Up the thread there are examples of how he has stiffed his employees throughout his career. He enters into agreements with them that he plans to violate when it comes time to pay. He would be a very dangerous person to place in a position of negotiating anyway!

 

[SuperLuigi]

I watch/read online CNN, MSNBC and Fox. I subscribe to the Washington Post and Wall Street Journal. I get my news from all sides. I read Twitter and follow people from all across the spectrum. I read books.

If the best thing you can say is, “So worldly”, then, whatever.

timothyvail:

I wish it showed more.

 

[PaulinVA]

However, what you just said amounts to saying that supporting Trump in realizing Catholic positions is selling your soul to the devil. You know the devil is opposed to the Church and her positions? How would that make sense?

It makes perfect sense. You do remember that Trump is not really Pro LIfe, don’t you? He is on record as being pro abortion. During a Presidential debate, he had no idea what the Pro LIfe position was in terms of women who have had abortions? He wanted to jail them.

To support an individual who said he would date his own daughter if she wasn’t his daughter, to the affairs, to the divorces, to the frauds, to the not paying contractors, to the sexual assaults, is just so wrong. Just to get a Republican-nominated Supreme you align yourself with a narcissistic demagogue.

The ends do not justify the means.

Likewise, does the means of resisting Trump help the country realize anti-abortion legislation, religious freedom, pro marriage policies?

You are getting possible anti-abortion legislation, religious freedom, pro marriage by supporting a terrible person. It’s sort of a Faustian bargain - you don’t care who the person is, what they’ve done, as long as you get a Republican supreme. Sorry. Not me.

 

[SuperLuigi]

You are getting possible anti-abortion legislation, religious freedom, pro marriage by supporting a terrible person. It’s sort of a Faustian bargain - you don’t care who the person is, what they’ve done, as long as you get a Republican supreme. Sorry. Not me.

Just remember Trump didn’t even win the popular vote. I recall how that used to be all the rage on here.

But I really hope that you’re not saying that mean words and stupid memes are more morally important than abortion.