Do we vote for the lesser of two evils?

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If you are over 55, the changes to Medicare would not affect you. Everyone knows Medicare will be bankrupt, even the trustees, if something isn’t done.

We have to find a way to fix these problems, or Medicare and SS won’t be around for anyone.

Good luck on your search, and thank you for your sincerity!
Supposedly Reagan fixed it so that they would be around for everyone who paid into them.

The problem came when those funds were raided to finance their wars.

Which candidate is proposing ways to pay for those wars and replenish the funds?
 
The thing is, viablity is only one factor that may be weighed and can receive weight differently depending on the individual.
Please explain how one weighs opposing the promoter of intrinsic evil by vote, against voting in a way that will have no effect whatever on the outcome.
 
Supposedly Reagan fixed it so that they would be around for everyone who paid into them.

The problem came when those funds were raided to finance their wars.

Which candidate is proposing ways to pay for those wars and replenish the funds?
Neither.

But SS was not raided just to finance wars. If you look at the history of government receipts from the payroll tax and government expenditures of the money, there has almost never been much difference. The whole system has been pretty much “pay as you go” forever. However, the difference, which varies at times, was always spent in other ways, war or no war.

Yes, there is a “trust fund” consisting in IOUs promising that the public will pay itself back for the money the government has spent on other things. If you write yourself a check when you have no money in the bank, did you make yourself rich?

I personally believe SS should be formally acknowledged to be the “pay as you go” system that it has actually been pretty much all along. People should be taxed sufficiently to pay for the outgo on an annual basis, but no more. If nothing else, it will allow people to know the reality of the system. As the tax increases, as it surely will, people might then have the wisdom to question, for example, whether SS really should be paid to millionaires by people who work for a living and are trying to support families on their earnings. We really ought to tell the public the truth about this and a lot of other government expenditures.

Personally, I would also like to see everybody in the U.S. receive a statement of his/her debt due to government borrowing. I think presently it’s about $148,000 per person. I don’t think people would be as sanguine about deficits as many are if they could see their debt climb and wonder how in the world they and their children are going to pay for it. I think their children would be appalled to realize that without reduction their own debt will double at their parents’ deaths. (assuming two children in a family)

Insolvency is defined as having obligations greater than one’s assets. Using that definition, and if I’m not greatly mistaken, every man, woman and child in this country, on average, is insolvent if the per capita share of government debt is counted.
 
Please explain how one weighs opposing the promoter of intrinsic evil by vote, against voting in a way that will have no effect whatever on the outcome.
I do not understand the question. However, in general viability of electability is one issue. It is also acceptable to vote one’s conscience for the best candidate and leave the results to God. One thing I have noticed is that politics as usual, the status quo, has done nothing to stem abortion, Democrat or Republican wins notwithstanding. Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is a good workins definition of insanity. We are not always required to compromise with the world.
 
The thing is, viablity is only one factor that may be weighed and can receive weight differently depending on the individual.
Huh?

The life of the unborn trumps all other issues. They are defenseless voiceless martyrs. I must vote for the candidate who supports the pro-life position. I must take him at his word according to my conscience.

50 million and counting. Lord have mercy.
 
I do not understand the question. However, in general viability of electability is one issue. It is also acceptable to vote one’s conscience for the best candidate and leave the results to God. One thing I have noticed is that politics as usual, the status quo, has done nothing to stem abortion, Democrat or Republican wins notwithstanding. Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is a good workins definition of insanity. We are not always required to compromise with the world.
Leaving it to God alone rather than opposing evil ourselves when we’re able to do it. Goodness!

In the last administration, and in previous ones, a great deal was done to stem abortion, and at least Catholic institutions and employers were not obliged to fund it through their health insurance policies or pay a “Catholic jizya” if they fail to do it.

Things like that do matter. I am aware of an order of sisters whose primary mission is to aid pregnant women in helping them make a decision for life instead of death for their children. Their clients are poor women mainly, but they will help anyone, including providing a home and job referrals for them. They have saved a lot of lives and likely a lot of souls through their work.

But because their clientele is not limited to Catholics, they are going to have to either pay for abortifacients, sterilizations and contraceptives on their policies, (for Catholic nuns!) or pay the “Catholic tax”. They have decided not to carry health insurance at all, which leaves them vulnerable, of course. They have not yet decided whether to pay the fine or pay the piper in all the ways obama has devised for them or will devise for them if he’s re-elected.

That’s not “politics as usual”. Not by a long way. That’s stone-hearted cruelty.
 
Oh and the fact is Ryan has only been able to get 2 bills passed in 14 yrs. If i worked somewhere and only got 2 things done in 14 yrs id be fired. Facts are facts open your eyes. Im done with you all now i cant stand supposed Catholics that judge others.
 
Oh and the fact is Ryan has only been able to get 2 bills passed in 14 yrs. If i worked somewhere and only got 2 things done in 14 yrs id be fired. Facts are facts open your eyes. Im done with you all now i cant stand supposed Catholics that judge others.
Now, Mitchele, as a Missourian you’re entitled to be shown. But if one is judging, then one must be prepared to be judged as well. You needn’t leave, but you can’t expect to say things and not be challenged if people don’t accept them. At least not on CAF.

In some ways, CAF is instructional through debate. Sometimes if someone gets challenged, he/she will be therby encouraged to either change his/her mind or at least to research his/her own position or clarify his/her own thinking.

You needn’t leave.
 
Huh?

The life of the unborn trumps all other issues. They are defenseless voiceless martyrs. I must vote for the candidate who supports the pro-life position. I must take him at his word according to my conscience.

50 million and counting. Lord have mercy.
I only give what the Church teaches. But in case you missed it, electability is not another issue. It is a consideration in the very issue you mentioned. IN other words, you may vote, if you want, for a candidate that is Republican even if he is not the most in line with Church teaching based on the likelyhood that he is more easily elected.

You may take any politician you want at his word. I have not had a lot of luck with that.
 
I did not say “alone.” That is your word and it changes completely what I said.
Leave it to God without one doing anything in a political sense that has any possibility of actually thwarting evil. Is that closer to your meaning?
 
. If nothing else, it will allow people to know the reality of the system. As the tax increases, as it surely will, people might then have the wisdom to question, for example, whether SS really should be paid to millionaires by people who work for a living and are trying to support families on their earnings. We really ought to tell the public the truth about this and a lot of other government expenditures.
Good post but I have to add here that SS benefits are also taxed and there is so-called means testing (through other income) in the existing tax code. Plus if one is under the full age (65 or 66), he gets his benefits cut right off the top the more he earns in salary. The idea of cutting benefits fully for high-incomes (1%?) is intriguing but I don’t see it saving much, not immediately anyway.
 
Good post but I have to add here that SS benefits are also taxed and there is so-called means testing (through other income) in the existing tax code. Plus if one is under the full age (65 or 66), he gets his benefits cut right off the top the more he earns in salary. The idea of cutting benefits fully for high-incomes (1%?) is intriguing but I don’t see it saving much, not immediately anyway.
Possibly you’re right, as I am not a tax expert, but it is my impression that if one is the “magic age” (isn’t it 66 now?) for full benefits he can earn any amount of money and not be penalized in his benefits, though he will be taxed at ordinary income rates for some or all of his SS income.

I’m not just talking about the 1%. I know a man who served out his time in the service and retired as, I believe, a full colonel. He was a JAG officer and never fired a shot in anger or saw a war zone. He gets a pension for that. He was a lawyer and was pretty well connected, so he was appointed as a judge in the bankruptcy court. He served enough time there for a pension for that. He then went into private practice and got enough quarters in to draw social security. Does he really have a greater moral claim on the public weal (which he undoubtedly does) than some woman who worked on the line all her life and draws half what he does?

Not long ago I closed a loan for a couple. The man was retired military and had some other thing he was drawing. He and his wife both drew social security retirement. Their combined income was over $12,000/month. I fail to see why they should get more in SS than someone who totally depends on it to live a cornbread living, or the same amount, or any at all.

I know a man who got in on the IPO of a company of which he was an officer (CFO I believe) early in the game. He recently cashed out some (but not all) of his options for 40 million dollars. He also has a generous pension from the highly successful company. I don’t know if he draws SS or not, but he certainly could.

I have nothing against the well-to-do. If a man makes ten million a year, I don’t care at all. But when young working families pay into a system that pays the people I mentioned above, and particularly when many of those working will never receive the benefit of the taxes they’re paying, I say something is terribly wrong.

And I think its doubly wrong when it’s just a fact that “transfer payments”, of which SS is one, comes from labor’s portion of the gross national income. There are reasons why that’s so, but it would take too long to explain.

If a person is elderly and has a net income of, say, $100,000/year, is there any compelling moral reason why he should be subsidized by some line worker who maybe makes $30,000.00 a year and struggles to support young children?
 
Leaving it to God alone rather than opposing evil ourselves when we’re able to do it. Goodness!

In the last administration, and in previous ones, a great deal was done to stem abortion, and at least Catholic institutions and employers were not obliged to fund it through their health insurance policies or pay a “Catholic jizya” if they fail to do it.

Things like that do matter. I am aware of an order of sisters whose primary mission is to aid pregnant women in helping them make a decision for life instead of death for their children. Their clients are poor women mainly, but they will help anyone, including providing a home and job referrals for them. They have saved a lot of lives and likely a lot of souls through their work.

But because their clientele is not limited to Catholics, they are going to have to either pay for abortifacients, sterilizations and contraceptives on their policies, (for Catholic nuns!) or pay the “Catholic tax”. They have decided not to carry health insurance at all, which leaves them vulnerable, of course. They have not yet decided whether to pay the fine or pay the piper in all the ways obama has devised for them or will devise for them if he’s re-elected.

That’s not “politics as usual”. Not by a long way. That’s stone-hearted cruelty.
This is Obama’s and Sebelius’ payback to an order of nuns who only wish to promote life but are forced by the administration to promote death.
 
Leave it to God without one doing anything in a political sense that has any possibility of actually thwarting evil. Is that closer to your meaning?
Absolutely not. Maybe you had better save your rhetoric for someone else.
 
I only give what the Church teaches .
The Catholic Church teaches pro-life. One of the candidates completely supports abortion at every phase and is a huge supporter of the abortion mill planned parenthood.
In other words, you may vote, if you want, for a candidate that is Republican even if he is not the most in line with Church teaching based on the likelyhood that he is more easily elected. .
Romney/Ryan is the pro-life ticket.😉
You may take any politician you want at his word. I have not had a lot of luck with that
As I said…you will vote with your conscience.
 
The Catholic Church teaches pro-life.
For the record the Catholic Church teaches all abortion is wrong WITHOUT EXCEPTION and encourages adoption and other such measures which promote the sanctity of life.
 
For the record the Catholic Church teaches all abortion is wrong WITHOUT EXCEPTION and encourages adoption and other such measures which promote the sanctity of life.
Amen. And there is one candidate who is diametrically opposed to the Catholic Church. In fact, he has even attacked her teaching on contraception prompting outcries from bishops and mutliple lawsuits. And yet…there are many Catholics who still intend on voting for the pro-abortion ticket. Crazy! :banghead:
 
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