do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

[ron77nyc]

I’m going to have to disagree with you on the no salvation outside the church thing. * Extra ecclesiam, nulla salus* does not mean that only faithful Roman Catholics can be saved. **The Church has never taught that. **

The Church taught it (only Catholics go to heaven) for centuries.

"The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia productive of eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” -Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441 (infallible)

The Papal Bull- Unam Sanctam
Boniface VIII- 1302 AD Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature that they be subject to the Roman Pontiff.

 

[lindalout49]

And to act like some people on this thread and very offensive to God also

 

[lindalout49]

i agree 100 percent.

 

[guanophore]

Popes and councils have never been clear about the gospel. They give the impression that you get salvation by belonging to the right church and being a good person. Faith is not really all that important.

If you believe this,then you have not read enough conciliar documents.

I didn’t make this up. I found it. It’s the sad truth. The Catholic Church has been mass producing Catholics who are not Christians.

I think the Pope said something similar recently. Sacramentalized, but not evangelized. It is a serious problem. I was one of them myself for a long time.

catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0027.html
“But many Catholics to this day have not learned the Catholic and biblical doctrine. They think we are saved by good intentions or being nice or sincere or trying a little harder or doing a sufficient number of good deeds. Over the past twenty-five years I have asked hundreds of Catholic college students the question: If you should die tonight and God asks you why he should let you into heaven, what would you answer? The vast majority of them simply do not know the right answer to this, the most important of all questions, the very essence of Christianity. They usually do not even mention Jesus!”

Excellent point, and sadly too true.

 

[guanophore]

Being in the church is not the same as believing in Jesus. Which of the two has eternal life: A Catholic without faith in Jesus or a non-Catholic who has faith in Jesus?

Yes, they are the same. One must distinguish between the external appearance of a person who is a member of a parish and claims to be Catholic, and one who is “in Christ”. Jesus does not separate HImself at all from the Church, and all who become members of Him through baptism are joined inseparably to His Body,the Church. We are members one of another.

It is a modern fundamentalist error to separate the Head from the Body. There is no such thing as “me and Jesus” or “Jesus alone”.

A person who claims to be Catholic but has no faith in Jesus is deluding Himself. It is not possible to be Catholic unless one is a Christian. Outwardly, perhaps, culturally, or nominally (in name only), but to these He will say, “I never knew you”.

 

[guanophore]

No one was told that for hundreds of years. We were told we would go to hell instantly if we died before confessing eating a hamburger on Friday. Is this from God?

The practice of abstaining from meat on Fridays is a religious discipline. Jesus gave authority to the Church to create these disciplines, and hold the faithful accountable to them. The problem is really more one of disobedience, rebellion, or disrespect for those who were appointed by Him.

I think it was wrong for you to be taught that eating meat on Friday was the most heinous of sins. It is clear from your posts that you were very poorly catechized.

I work with men who are living in fornication but they won’t eat meat on Friday during lent.

It is no wonder that people get disenfrachized with the Catholic faith.

 

[guanophore]

If there were no other religions in the world we could still stay say the Catholic Church is not proclaiming the gospel as it was in the first century. The apostles were very clear…you either believe in the resurrection of Jesus or you don’t. If you don’t then you are not a Christian,

On what basis do you assert that the Catholic Church is not proclaiming the gospel as it should? Do you think, if the gospel were proclaimed properly, persons calling themselves Catholic would not commit fornication while abstaining from meat on Fridays?

 

[guanophore]

The answer to the question is no you do not have to be aCatholic to go to heaven. Period.

This statement is another good example of your misrepresentation of the Catholic faith, tweety.

 

[guanophore]

It’s a lot sickening at least to me

As are your misrepresentations of Catholicism, and the spurious claim of being Catholic while pandering Protestant theologies.

 

[guanophore]

The Church has already changed its position on many issues such as abstaining from meat on Friday, salvation outside the Church and Mass on Saturday.

It seems that you are failing to distinguish between Traditions and traditions. Sacred Tradition is Teaching that has come down to us from the Apostles, and cannot be changed.

Customs (traditions with a small t) are disciplines and practices that can be changed.
Changing disciplines and devotional practices is not the same as changing doctrine.

I think they should do away with man made laws and focus on the gospel.

Part of that gospel is Jesus giving authority to the Apostles to bind and loose. this means making up laws.

Folks that I’m talking about were educated in Catholic schools and have no faith in Jesus.

This is a sad fact.

They are just doing what they were taught. We are justified by faith. That was completely omitted in Catholic school. It’s the most important thing to learn.

The fact that there are a lost of poor catechists does not mean that the Church teaches wrong doctrine. A lot of the teachers are faithless, or teach errors. Are you making yourself part of the solution?

 

[guanophore]

Jesus said: “Today you will be with me in Paradise.”

There are two ways this could be understood:

1. “Today I tell you…”
2. Paradise here refers to the place of the Righteous dead - Abrahams bosom, where the OT saints awaited the saviour.

One thing for sure, it did not refer to heaven, as the gates had not yet been opened, for He had not ascended. that was 40 days later.

If that's supposed to make me feel ashamed, it doesn't. The Catholic Church is the Church started by Jesus but they have used it in ways He never intended it to be used. That's why I question man made laws.

It seems that you are having difficulty separating the One, Holy and Aposotlic bride of Christ, who is without error, from the sinful actions of men who are attached to her. Men are prone to sin, but the Church has as her Head Christ Himself, who cannot err, and for her soul, the HS, who cannot err. this is why the Church is infallible, not because of the men.

 

[guanophore]

So do you think Billy Graham has no faith?

Billy Graham never claimed to be Catholic. A person who claims they are Catholic and does not have saving faith in Christ is not Catholic. They may not know any better, but the fact is that one cannot be Catholic without faith in Christ. They are going through a form of godliness, without the power thereof.

 

[guanophore]

The Church taught it (only Catholics go to heaven) for centuries.

And still does. What is not taught is that only those who adhere to the Latin (Roman ) Rite go to heaven.

What has changed is our understanding of Church. Although the Church teaches that only Catholics go to heaven, she recognizes that there are some who are members of Christs One Body that are not recognizable as Catholic. But, since there is one church,and all the saved belong to it, then everyone who his saved is Catholic, whether they know it, or not. Jesus only founded one church, so all who are members of His One Body belong to it,whether visible from the outside, or not.

I strongly recommend that you read your catechism. Maybe you and tweety could get together, and her anti-Catholic sentiments could be dispensed.

 

[tweetymom]

And still does. What is not taught is that only those who adhere to the Latin (Roman ) Rite go to heaven.

What has changed is our understanding of Church. Although the Church teaches that only Catholics go to heaven, she recognizes that there are some who are members of Christs One Body that are not recognizable as Catholic. But, since there is one church,and all the saved belong to it, then everyone who his saved is Catholic, whether they know it, or not. Jesus only founded one church, so all who are members of His One Body belong to it,whether visible from the outside, or not.

I strongly recommend that you read your catechism. Maybe you and tweety could get together, and her anti-Catholic sentiments could be dispensed.

Thank you once again for your judgement call. The only thing I am saying is non Catholics will go to Heaven. The Bible clearly states Believe in Jesus and you will be saved. Now you can dice it anyway you want oh perfect one and it doesn’t really matter to me what you think of me. You can call and insult all you want. If it makes you a hero go for it.God Bless you in you judgemental walk.

 

[ron77nyc]

I strongly recommend that you read your catechism. Maybe you and tweety could get together, and her anti-Catholic sentiments could be dispensed.

I’ve read the catechism. The catechism gives you centuries of information that the apostles didn’t need. The apostles didn’t have a catechism. Their lives were transformed by their knowledge of the Savior. Here is what Paul says: “I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.

The early church was not a religious system. It was a group of people who believed in Jesus. Popes and councils, in their desire for wealth and worldly power have baptized pagans into the Church and now tolerate faithlessness in exchange for big crowds of followers.

 

[tweetymom]

You know what amazes me how everything one says is turned into a buch of hog wash!!! Just because I think Protestants will go to Heaven(and they will), and I don’t agree with somes posts I am anti Catholic I am not judgemental, love my fellow man and a try to get along. Anti Catholic? What I see here is a lot of Anti Christian. If you don’t like my posts so be it. It is too bad that we don’t Praise God for what He has done for all of us instead of always critizing those we don’t agree with.

Ron you are so right on in your posts, I appreciate them. You know that being a Catholic doesn’t make you a Christian, just like being at a garage make you a car!

So to you that like to point fingers go to it! It makes you look like what you are:shrug:

 

[mpjw2]

hi all,

I have been away for awile and I can see the subject matter of this thread has not lost interest.
It is evident that !00% of catholics are not sure if God will save me.

From your posts, I believe there should be additional questions asked in regard to salvation…

I believe we all can agree the only way we get to heaven is only if our souls are in a state of absolute grace…

correcf??

In answering, let’s consider one dies at the exact moment he/she makes a contrite, remorseful, repentant confession of their sin/sins and do not withold any sin from God.

…in order for God to save him/her, …

…does he/she have to be a member of the catholic church?
If no, does it matter if he/she has lived and believed in the catholic faith at one time in their past?

Which of the following 3 examples of people, if it applies, do you believe the catholic church teaches can not get to heaven …

1. Me. I was baptized as an infant in the catholic church…I lived a catholic believing life to the age of 30.

I am now 52, baptized by immersion in 2000, born again bible believing christian, with a solid faith and trust in Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour and by only through Him and the precious blood He shed, is the way to heaven. I will die as a non catholic.

1. all other christians who have seen, knew or heard about the catholic church and have the same belief in the bible and faith in Jesus as I do, but have never in their life been a member of the catholic church, even at the time of their death.
2. the hindus, muslims, buddhists, jews…etc who heard about christianity and Jesus but have decided not to believe in Him even at the time of their death.
3. people who at the time of their death would proclaim that they never heard about Jesus.

interesting too is the subject of purgatory.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the sense that some, if not all, catholics believe I will only make it to purgatory for a period of time to be purified before going to heaven.

If this is true, how much purer can one person get if their soul has already been restored to grace by Jesus through confession and prayer?

Does anyone believe my sin may not be totally forgiven because I do not confess through an ordained priest?

looking forward to your responses
thank you and

God bless you all

mpjw

 

[mpjw2]

Hi Jason,

Correct me if I’m wrong, but (and I know a lot goes into this, and someone is going to tell me anyway, so thank you for your 2 cents in advance…) but I think essentially, one has to be in a state of grace at the time of death. I think that’s pretty much it.

Jason, I can not agree with you more

Maintaining that & how you get to that point is a topic for discussing the mechanics of all that, but to be in a state of grace is the key I think.

and I believe the way to maintain and restore your soul to a state of grace is by faith and trust in Jesus, prayer and sincere confession to God of sin/sins committed and no sin withheld.

God bless you Jason

mpjw

 

[tweetymom]

hi all,

I have been away for awile and I can see the subject matter of this thread has not lost interest.
It is evident that !00% of catholics are not sure if God will save me.

From your posts, I believe there should be additional questions asked in regard to salvation…

I believe we all can agree the only way we get to heaven is only if our souls are in a state of absolute grace…

correcf??

In answering, let’s consider one dies at the exact moment he/she makes a contrite, remorseful, repentant confession of their sin/sins and do not withold any sin from God.

…in order for God to save him/her, …

…does he/she have to be a member of the catholic church?
If no, does it matter if he/she has lived and believed in the catholic faith at one time in their past?

Which of the following 3 examples of people, if it applies, do you believe the catholic church teaches can not get to heaven …

1. Me. I was baptized as an infant in the catholic church…I lived a catholic believing life to the age of 30.

I am now 52, baptized by immersion in 2000, born again bible believing christian, with a solid faith and trust in Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour and by only through Him and the precious blood He shed, is the way to heaven. I will die as a non catholic.

1. all other christians who have seen, knew or heard about the catholic church and have the same belief in the bible and faith in Jesus as I do, but have never in their life been a member of the catholic church, even at the time of their death.
2. the hindus, muslims, buddhists, jews…etc who heard about christianity and Jesus but have decided not to believe in Him even at the time of their death.
3. people who at the time of their death would proclaim that they never heard about Jesus.

interesting too is the subject of purgatory.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the sense that some, if not all, catholics believe I will only make it to purgatory for a period of time to be purified before going to heaven.

If this is true, how much purer can one person get if their soul has already been restored to grace by Jesus through confession and prayer?

Does anyone believe my sin may not be totally forgiven because I do not confess through an ordained priest?

looking forward to your responses
thank you and

God bless you all

mpjw

Hi mpjw, no things haven’t changed sos different day. Glad you are back. I beleive you are saved your sins forgiven and we will see each other in heaven! God Bless you on your journey:thumbsup:

 

[mpjw2]

Hi tweetymom,

You know what amazes me how everything one says is turned into a buch of hog wash!!!

my sentiments too. I wonder if they really care about what we say if it is of different belief than theirs

Just because I think Protestants will go to Heaven(and they will),

tweety, thank you for your expression of confidence

I am sure you will agree if we “protestants” freely live in sin which we never confess to God, God will not save us if we die with that sin on our soul.

and I don’t agree with somes posts I am anti Catholic

tweety, I am sure some will disagree with what I am about to say…
you might be anti-catholic to some because you do not believe 100% of what they believe the catholic church teaches.

however, I believe you are most definitely not anti christian

which brings to question…What is more important to God’s eyes…
being christian
or
being catholic

Do some catholics even acknowledge we “protestants” are christian?

I am not judgemental, love my fellow man and a try to get along.

few of many christian values

Anti Catholic? **What I see here is a lot of Anti Christian. **

tweety, it saddens me too

It is too bad that we don’t Praise God for what He has done for all of us instead of always criticizing those we don’t agree with.

amen

Ron you are so right on in your posts, I appreciate them. You know that being a Catholic doesn’t make you a Christian, just like being at a garage make you a car!

tweety, I love the illustration.

Ron thank you too for your post.
especially your answer to reading a chatecism.

I agree in the early years their was no book to live by.

I am going on a limb here to make a bold statement…,

It is my sincere belief that all the religions of this world have created a road block to a true loving open relationship between God and His children.

my christian brothers and sisters…, as children did we read a book to instruct us how to love our parents?

now as parents do we go to any book, as one would go to a auto manual, when problems develop with our children?

Is there anything our children can do to cause us to stop loving them?

When they step out of line we teach them how to be sorry, forgiveness and encourage them the right way.

We would not want anyone to instruct our children on how to listen to us…correct?

And if they make the same mistake, because we love them, dicipline may be necessary.

We will never stop loving them.
That is the relationship between parent and child

agree?

I believe the same is true with God…our Father in heaven

Through the threads you will read a lot of posts where catholics will not say…

“this is what God taught me or what God believes”

you will read posts which read…
“it is not what the church believes or teaches”

guanofore a few posts back stated that the church teaches only catholics go to heaven. And then continued, “she recognizes…”

So I am confused,
Is it not better to learn from God and the guidance of the Holy Spirit than to get your guidance from the church (man)?.

do not get me wrong, there is value from christian counseling and fellowship with christian brothers and sisters in your church.

But and this is a big BUT, would you want the church (man) to direct your paths whenever you are faced with an important decision or challenge in your life or God and how He can speak to you through His word…the bible?
From some of the posts I read, I believe some catholics do not believe God can speak to them directly one on one or through the bible. Please correct me if you disagree.

So to you that like to point fingers go to it! It makes you look like what you are:shrug:

tweety, may I add to those who are pointing the finger, I invite them to look at the direction the other 3 fingers are pointing…and they are not at you.

How much do you value chistian love?.

When I was catholic one of my favorite songs was…

“They will know we are christians by our love”

I invite all to post and praise God in my Jesus’ church of christian love thread"

See you there and God bless you all

mpjw