do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

[AChris]

Thank you Guanophore, and right you are as usual, Carlan

So, you’re a scripture scholar too! That’s great. I read the first chapter of Romans and I don’t see anything about God saving non-Catholics.

St. Paul says he can’t wait to visit again…etc…then he talks about the natural law, and how God permitted some people, because of their pride, to fall into shameful sins.

 

[guanophore]

I once again state that I am not role playing but if that’s what you chose to beleive so be it.

Well, ok. My point is that I do not know you as a person, and cannot make judgements about you as a person. Even if I did know you, I still could only make judgements about your behavior, and not the motives and intentions of your heart, or your relationship with God. I can only respond to what you post. You have posted that you are Catholic on your profile, but your messages have content that is not consistent with CAtholic faith.

And I will never quit posting what I beleive to be Gods word.

Nor should you. You might want to consider, however, that your perceptions may not be infallible.

I have read Gods word in its entirity. Spent many years studing and taught for 8 years

.
Now that does not make me a Christian, Catholic or anything else. But what it does do is make me pretty knowledgable in Gods word

Indeed. Far more so, I imagine, than the average Catholic in the pew, who has had more experience like your husband’s.

And you can bring yp anything you are able to, it no longer will effect me except to make me stronger in my faith in Christ.

It is my hopeful prayer and expectation that you will grow ever stronger in your faith in Christ. I don’t believe thinking you are Catholic when you are posting anti-Catholic points of view will further that goal, however.

Yes i have taught the importance of Bible study in my RCIA classes. I have a hard time how you can be a good anything without reading the Bible? People were just taught what someone else thought they should beleive, as in the case of my husband,

God is able. Even over and above the shortcomings of people. If a person attends Mass, they will hear the whole Bible over the course of 3 years. If one prays the Mass,one incorporates sufficient gospel message to come to salvation in Christ. I agree it is not sufficient, which is why I support ministries that propogate the Word of God.

 

[guanophore]

Thank you Guanophore, and right you are as usual, Carlan

Thank you for your kind words, Carlan. For the benefit of those who think I am “anti-Protestant” let me give credit to the Methodists, from whom I learned this. They may not know it is Catholic.

 

[guanophore]

Satan believes God exists and knows the Bible better than the greatest scripture scholar. But he has no faith, because this is a supernatural gift of God he has rejected. He left the true “faith”. He lost his “faith”…

I don’t think this is the case. The Apostle’s taught that the fallen angels all believe “and shudder”. The lack of faith is not the problem. In fact, they don’t need faith like we do, since faith is the evidence of things not seen, and they see. They were created to dwell in the presence of God, and did not need a supernatural gift because it was their natural state. They forfieted their natural state when they chose to defy the order in which God created them (one of service).

I think what was lost is obedience. Satan said “I will not serve”, and thus, was cast out of heaven.

just as non-Catholics are not in the true "faith", because they don't have this gift of God...which is more than just believing in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. No, I don't think he'd qualify for God's gift of faith by rejecting "Truth" in the Catholic Church. I mean, God would give him faith, if he subjected himself to the fullness of truth, but he doesn't.  The same is true about hope and charity.

I do not think it is proper to say that “non-Catholics are not in th e trut faith”. Many Protestants have a greater measure of faith than most Catholics,a nd receive His supernatural gifts in abundance.

I agree that the Apostolic faith is more than just believing in Jesus as Lord and saviour, but most of the fervent non-Catholic Christians go way beyond this.

those sincere persons who have not become Catholic in faith will have the opportunity revealed to them at the proper time. It may not happen in this lifetime. I know a lot of very fervent and faithful non-Catholics that are willing to do anything to be with the Lord (except join the Catholic Church).

 

[guanophore]

So, you’re a scripture scholar too! That’s great. I read the first chapter of Romans and I don’t see anything about God saving non-Catholics.
St. Paul says he can’t wait to visit again…etc…then he talks about the natural law, and how God permitted some people, because of their pride, to fall into shameful sins.

Ok, good. But do you see where God has given everyone Revelation? Do you see why the Apostle says that even the Pagans are “without excuse”? If so, let us move on to Rom. 2

For God shows no partiality.
[12] All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.
[13] For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.
**[14] When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
[15] They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them
[16] on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
[17] But if you **call yourself a Jew and rely upon the law and boast of your relation to God
[18] and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed in the law,
[19] and if you are sure that you are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
[20] a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth –
[21] you then who teach others, will you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal?
[22] You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
[23] You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?
[24] For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
[25] Circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law; but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision.
[26] So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
[27] Then those who are physically uncircumcised but keep the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law.
[28] For he is not a real Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical.
[29] He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal. His praise is not from men but from God.

Paul is here speaking about the Pagans, who have not heard of Christ, or the Law. Since God has revealed Himself to them through His creation, they are able to know Him as God. They will be judged in the light of the Truth that has been revealed to them. If they follow their conscience, doing what is right, even though they don’t have the Laws of God, then they are judged according to their choices. Paul is explaining that Pagans can be saved.

 

[AChris]

Thank you Guanophore, and right you are as usual, Carlan

It’s entirely possible that they were indeed taught that–incorrectly–or, it’s also possible that they misunderstood the teaching. That seems quite evident here that many folks STILL don’t understand what Christ said about nonCatholics entering into heaven.

Remember, folks, the Catholic Church celebrates the Feast of the Holy Innocents–who were NON-BAPTIZED JEWISH infants. That, I think, speaks VOLUMES!!
,

It speaks volumes only about how ignorant so many Catholics are.
The many missionaries and martyrs certainly thought they were going out to save souls…by bringing them into the catholic faith.

Christ never said anything about non-Catholics entering heaven.

The holy innocents died before the foundation of the Church. They, like the good thief were still under the old covenant.

 

[PRmerger]

The many missionaries and martyrs certainly thought they were going out to save souls…by bringing them into the catholic faith.

Indeed. Into the One True Faith.

Christ never said anything about non-Catholics entering heaven.

That’s not quite true, AChris.

See what Christ said about non-Catholics entering heaven:

*This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337 * (CCC 847)

The holy innocents died before the foundation of the Church. They, like the good thief were still under the old covenant.

True. So there are Jews in heaven, yes?

 

[ron77nyc]

It speaks volumes only about how ignorant so many Catholics are.
The many missionaries and martyrs certainly thought they were going out to save souls…by bringing them into the catholic faith.

Christ never said anything about non-Catholics entering heaven.

The holy innocents died before the foundation of the Church. They, like the good thief were still under the old covenant.

What exactly are you saying here?

 

[AChris]

hi again Achris

please do not stop here. I invite you to pretend I am Rev Billy Graham and I saw this reply about me on this thread…

How would you respond to this?
How can you say I have no faith or that I have rejected the Gift God has given me?

Just curious, consider all the personal sacrifices I made to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to millions around the world and as a result all those who found Jesus because they attended one of my crusades, do you believe that God will not save me because I am not catholic?

I wish everybody could go to heaven too…I just don’t see how they can, considering what the Church has infallibly said about them.

You don’t believe in Christ in the Eucharist. So you don’t believe in Christ.
You could lay down your life for the gospel, and all the people in the world…you still lack what is needed to be saved: sanctifying grace.

So sorry if you are offended. Sometimes medicine hurts.

 

[wcknight]

The short answer… no, but is sure does help a lot.

Getting to Heaven as a non-Catholic is like trying to cross the sea in a row boat. Trying to get there as a Catholic is like crossing in a luxury Ocean liner.

 

[guanophore]

It speaks volumes only about how ignorant so many Catholics are.

You are sure right about that!

The many missionaries and martyrs certainly thought they were going out to save souls…by bringing them into the catholic faith.

Yes, of course! The Catholic faith is the fullness of His revelation to humanity. We are obligated to spread it as far and wide as we are possibly able.

Christ never said anything about non-Catholics entering heaven.

Actually, He did!

John.10
[16] And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

The holy innocents died before the foundation of the Church. They, like the good thief were still under the old covenant.

So, because they are not Catholic, they are not saved?

 

[guanophore]

What exactly are you saying here?

He is giving us a demonstration of the many Catholics that don’t understand what the Church believes and teaches.

 

[distracted]

It’s a lot sickening at least to me

i have the power to make you sick??

hmmm…

well at least i’m not totally impotent…

 

[guanophore]

I wish everybody could go to heaven too…I just don’t see how they can, considering what the Church has infallibly said about them.

You don’t believe in Christ in the Eucharist. So you don’t believe in Christ.
You could lay down your life for the gospel, and all the people in the world…you still lack what is needed to be saved: sanctifying grace.

So sorry if you are offended. Sometimes medicine hurts.

I am offended. It is not up to you to determine if other people are in a state of grace, or not, or if they have what is needed for them to be saved. That is between them and their Creator.

You have demonstrated that you do not understand what the infallible teachings mean.

 

[Hisalone]

I wish everybody could go to heaven too…I just don’t see how they can, considering what the Church has infallibly said about them.

You don’t believe in Christ in the Eucharist. So you don’t believe in Christ.
You could lay down your life for the gospel, and all the people in the world…you still lack what is needed to be saved: sanctifying grace.

So sorry if you are offended. Sometimes medicine hurts.

The word of God says that if believe in your heart that Jesus is the Christ and confess with your mouth that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved.
So you have become more of an authority than The word of God?

 

[mpjw2]

I wish everybody could go to heaven too…I just don’t see how they can, considering what the Church has infallibly said about them.

You don’t believe in Christ in the Eucharist. So you don’t believe in Christ.
You could lay down your life for the gospel, and all the people in the world…you still lack what is needed to be saved: sanctifying grace.

So sorry if you are offended. Sometimes medicine hurts.

thank you achris

it seems you are crossing a line which no one yet has crossed.

Just to comfirm … it is your belief then… if Billy Graham, myself or any other non catholic christian who is well aware of the catholic faith and teachings but refuse to join the catholic church, has no hope for salvation unless we have joined the catholic church before the time of our death on earth?.

is that what you believe

Thank you and God bless

 

[mpjw2]

The word of God says that if believe in your heart that Jesus is the Christ and confess with your mouth that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved.
So you have become more of an authority than The word of God?

hi Hisalone

i was wondering the same thing

 

[guanophore]

The word of God says that if believe in your heart that Jesus is the Christ and confess with your mouth that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved.
So you have become more of an authority than The word of God?

No, I am most certain that Chris does not have that much authority. He still needs to work on having authority over his catechism.

However, when the Apostles spoke about a confession of faith, they meant a lot more than what is understood by modern evangelicals. To confess the faith meant the WHOLE faith, not just small slivers as we see practiced today in many communities. There is much more to salvation than believing in the heart, and confessing with the mouth, though this is a good start.

 

[distracted]

Here’s the problem: I believe Peter had authority from heaven but I’m not so sure about his successors. Eugene and Boniface didn’t tell anyone about invincible ignorance. I think when the Church was young and strong they bullied whoever they could. Today they have to do damage control.

There is a large community of Catholics who want to remain in traditional Catholicism and that means excluding all non-Catholics from heaven. That’s what they were taught and they don’t want it to change.

you don’t understand the Church… You are seeing it, it seems, from a human, un-Catholic-ized view… as it were.

logic dictates that God would want ALL his children to be saved & get into heaven… therefore, he himself would have to establish a Church… a Church for ALL.

, he would keep that Church from teaching error (about dogma, etc). He is capable of doing such things…

he knows how much we need Him… how lost we get without His intervention… therefore, again, he had to establish a Church that could in NO WAY go 'bad" … teach error that leads people to Hell…

He knows us inside and out…

he knew we would have a bzillion questions …

and so ***he not only COULD but he DID establish a Church that does not teach error… ***

and that Church was established… but people have lied about it ever since it was begun… said t hat this or that pope was evil and taught error… said that this doctrine was made up or that dogma or whatever…

we humans need to learn to separate truth from error… not easy but not impossible…

if this Church is God’s Church and teaches truth…(irrespective of the unChristian behavior of some members) we must disregard all those arguments of those who attack her…Ok, not disregard but we should not leave the Church over them or say evil about the Church because of them… a dangerous thing to do…

we must have faith that this Church did NOT fall into ANY serious error… in ANY era… through any pope…

If the Catholic Church is untrue NONE of them is true… It is the only one that goes back to the time of Christ and the Apostles… other so called churches are MAN-made…

so a pope commits grave sin…? Some have…

that doesn’t change the fact that the Church has NOT taught error… None of those popes who did evil TAUGHT that that evil the committed was acceptable…

***God is all-powerful.

he can preserve his Church in spite of humans…

he can and he does…***

 

[Hisalone]

The short answer… no, but is sure does help a lot.

Getting to Heaven as a non-Catholic is like trying to cross the sea in a row boat. Trying to get there as a Catholic is like crossing in a luxury Ocean liner.

Rockville here.
Getting to heaven is simple but not easy. Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Christ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead. Catholics and nonCatholics have an equal road to travel. Follow Christ , take up your cross, and believe in trust in depend on God, love Him with your whole heart mind soul.