do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

[distracted]

Explain why the church teaches limbo( although Benedict the 16th denies it because he is a heretic ). The the teaching that unbaptized babies don’t go to heaven because they are not baptized. It is because “absolutely no salvation outside the Catholic Church” is a dogma. And by dogma I mean truth given to us by God. And the reason they don’t get into heaven is because they are not in the Church and they are not in the Church because they are not baptized. It seems to me that all of you think you know better than God. So you make up all sorts of things so you feel better. Go to www.vaticancatholic.com.

why do you call him a heretic???

i called someone that once and i regret it. this person said heretical things but the only way to find out if someone is a heretic is have an Inquisition… basically…

i can’t imagine why you would call our pope a heretic…? I don’t keep up on his doings but i’ve read a book by him and know a little… i haven’t found anything heretical …

i don’t u/stand your post… You claim to be a traditional Catholic but you make statements that show otherwise…

the Catholic Church does not teach that babies unbpatized go to Hell… i don’t appreciate you implying otherwise…

the Church was given to us so that we would know what to do in morally troublesome situations… and She does that and will always do that…

if people don’t want to listen to the Church that’s their problem…

but god only establihsed ONE Chruch and that Church is the RCC… all others are man-made…

so you can believe man-made doctrines or God-made ones… the choice is yours. Jesus said the very gates of Hell would NOT prevail against his Church (RCC)… if the church ever taught error (ex cathedra)… that would mean the gates of Hell had prevailed and Jesus did not keep his promise… \

is that the kind of Jesus you believe in?

why do you call yourslef catholic???

 

[guanophore]

If they are aware of  the Catholic faith and been throughly catechized, as I am sure you have been since you have told that you have a mother who is faithful to the Church, then I would say you left in rebellion.

I do not think this is a reliable assumption. Just because someone has a faithful parent does not mean that parent was able to communicate about the faith, or help the child understand their actions.

Besides, his posts have made it very clear that he does not understand Catholicism.

unless you repent of your rebellion, I’d say yes,to theplace.

I will agree that no one who has a heart of rebellion against God will want to be with Him for eternity. However, it is not right to assume that a person who has left is necessarily in rebellion. MOst people who leave do so because they are seeking authentic Christian experience, and don’t know how to find it as a Catholic. If they knew, they would have no desire to leave.

There are some, I agree, that leave because they are in rebellion against the moral teachings of the Church. They want what they want when they want it, and don’t approve of the Church telling them otherwise.

Most of this rebellion emanates from below the waist.

Anyone who puts serving the flesh above serving God will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

As to the last comment, I’d say Catholics as a whole,sure as He… , know deep down the answers to those Questions and MPJW as a fallen away Catholic I think you do too.

I diagree. I don’t think he knows. I don’t think the vast majority of Catholics understand their faith well at all. There is a reason he is here, though, not sure what.

 

[distracted]

Let’s all show Jesus how much we believe His love is the greatest.

mpjw2

i don’t know where you get this thing about Catholics saying that non-C’s will go to Hell…

there are many who go to Hell but they are catholic and non-C… and the Chruch does NOT believe that non-Cs go to Hell… I have NEVER heard someone on CAF say that they do…

all i ever DO hear is that Catholics believe this… that all non-C’s go to Hell…

i hope for the sake of your soul you didn’t just make htis stuff up… so you could attack the Catholic Church…

everyone attacks the Catholic Church…

but Jesus said that “you will be hated by all” because of Him…

***Cathlics are hated more than any other group…

that proves we are right probably more than anything… ***

 

[guanophore]

I’d like to know what you or anyone else has to say about people like AChris of William who reject the authority of the current pope because they sincerely believe he is in error. Are they IN the Church or OUT? Are they in rebellion too ?

This is for God to judge.

We know that we are called to unity, and we know that the successor of Peter is the symbol of that unity, and we are responsible for that.

I am not sure either one of them “sincerely believe” he is in error. I have not seen anything in their posts that would support that.

In order to sincerely believe, one must have correct information,a nd they clearly do not.

 

[distracted]

I think it is awful to accuse someone of heresy when you don’t even give evidence to support it…

i hate when posters do that kind of thing…

am i the only one who sees this… as …

well, for one thing… unworthy of comment or something…

in a court of law, the judge would probably literally throw the book at you…

 

[guanophore]

i say, mpjw2, that you don’t really know the rcc. You have no idea about the eucharist, about mary, about the sacraments, about the papacy.

You have no scripture verses that you can cite that point to the eucharist, the liturgy, apostolic succession, the magisterium, the priesthood.

Once you know what the cc teaches, and why, *then *you can (if you choose) say you do not believe the rcc is the true church.

well said!

 

[Carlan]

I do not think this is a reliable assumption. Just because someone has a faithful parent does not mean that parent was able to communicate about the faith, or help the child understand their actions.

Besides, his posts have made it very clear that he does not understand Catholicism.

I will agree that no one who has a heart of rebellion against God will want to be with Him for eternity. However, it is not right to assume that a person who has left is necessarily in rebellion. MOst people who leave do so because they are seeking authentic Christian experience, and don’t know how to find it as a Catholic. If they knew, they would have no desire to leave.[end Quote]

Hello Guanophore, O.K I see that, but not too many in my experience left for that reason, those who did put God on hold and returned on their death bed,knowing there was a God and not wanting to go There oops I know this is serious stuff sorry for being flip.

There are some, I agree, that leave because they are in rebellion against the moral teachings of the Church. They want what they want when they want it, and don’t approve of the Church telling them otherwise.

Yes, For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world Carlan
[/quote]
[/QUOTE]

 

[PRmerger]

First let me point out that the monsignor probably would have put his cigar out in my eye if I told him “I am not justified by my works.”

Now, that’s a very descriptive picture you’ve presented. I can totally picture him–crew cut, right? Stocky and German? Or maybe Irish?

The word “justified” was not in the Catholic vocabulary.

What? See this page for how many times the word justified is used in the Catechsim.

(Lest you tell me that the Catechism published in 1993 I’ll pre-empt your objection by asking if you think the CCC is presenting anything new?)

 

[PRmerger]

1So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. 2Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.

by the 5th verse Paul is telling the apostles about the praises each will receive from God.

So, are you pointing out one verse, also, and taking it out of context?

It would seem, in light of the entire passage, and in light of all of Paul’s writings, he is saying that we are not to judge anything before the appointed time–I do not judge myself; it is the Lord who judges us. At that time, then, each will receive his praise from God, when he brings to light what is hidden in darkness and exposes the motives of men’s hearts.

Do you believe that if bad motives of men’s hearts are revealed, mpjw, that these men will receive praise from God?

 

[PRmerger]

ok who is right here achris/ william or guanophore in regards to salvation?

The CC’s position is the true position. See all the posts which cite the CCC.

You want to know if the CC believes you’re going to go to heaven. The CC has no position on that, essentially, because it does not judge you. It states that you CAN achieve eternal life, but not that you WILL.

Your repeated questioning is quite curious, in that it presupposes that the CC’s doctrine on soteriology is mathematical or statistical, which clearly shows a lack of insight as to Jesus’ words and teachings on salvation. He did not create a mathematical formula for the CC to provide us with a census of who’s in hell.

To quote from Peter Kreeft, Catholic philospher at Boston College, *“Outside the Church there is no salvation” does not mean that Protestants and others are not saved, because **this forumula is not an answer to the mind’s curiousity about the populations of heaven and hell, *but an answer to the sincerely seeking heart’s question “Where is salvation? Where is the road? What has God done to show me how to be saved?” Similarly, Christ’s words to his disciples about “many” choosing the “wide” road to destruction and only “few” finding the “narrow” road to life (Mt 7;14) are not the words of statistician spoken to a census taker, but the words of a loving heavenly Father to his beloved children, warning them of danger. (from his book Catholic Christianity) (bold mine)

 

[PRmerger]

mpjw, I asked:

So would it be correct to say that you believe that no one has the assurance of salvation, because no one knows if he’s going to sin right before he dies, mpjw?

Your response:

Being a follower of Jesus if one sins and knows the penalty for that sin
how long will one wait before one fall on their knees to confess that sin to God and restore their soul to grace?

I sincerely hope they do not wait till the next time they go to confession at their church…they just may die before getting there.

Jesus is restoring my soul just about everyday to grace…I trust in God’s promise that If I confess with my mouth Jesus is Lord and believe God raised Him from the dead, God will save me…that is scripture and I trust God in His word…that is faith

I look forward to seeing you in paradise, I will be there…will you???

God bless

mpjw

Was that a yes or a no? So would it be correct to say that you believe that no one has the assurance of salvation, because no one knows if he’s going to sin right before he dies?(given my example of a man who accepted Jesus as his savior at age 15, then lived as a Christian for 50 years, then cheated on his wife at age 65 and died…)

 

[PRmerger]

My questions to mpjw: do you believe that someone who accepts Jesus as his Lord and savior at 15, lives 50 years as a Christian, but at age 65 cheats on his wife and dies is destined to heaven or hell?

do you believe a good Muslim, who denies Jesus’ divinity, but dies because he ran in front of a bus to save your son is destined to Hell?

Now you got me curious as to how you would answer if you would be so kind

thank you and God bless

mpjw

My answers:
Anyone who is in mortal sin when they die is rejecting God and they die choosing hell.

As for the Muslim, the CC teaches that faith in Jesus is needed to be saved. Thus, this Muslim would have had to know Jesus somehow in order to go to heaven. How could this Muslim have known Jesus yet be a Muslim? In the same way that everyone can: as “the true light which enlightens everyone” John 1:9.

Remember, pagans can know God (Acts 17:28, Rom 1:19-20, 2:11-16).

Explicit knowledge of the incarnate Jesus is NOT necessary for salvation. It is the second person of the Trinity–the eternal Logos–who enlightens everyone.

 

[mpjw2]

i don’t know where you get this thing about Catholics saying that non-C’s will go to Hell…

people like william…

Yes you do have to be Catholic to go to heaven. If you want to become Catholic go to www.mostholyfamilymonistary.com. **Lutherans go to hell **so do jews and pagans and all outside the true Catholic Church.

is there any doubt what he is saying?

 

[mpjw2]

The CC’s position is the true position. See all the posts which cite the CCC.

You want to know if the CC believes you’re going to go to heaven. The CC has no position on that, essentially, because it does not judge you. It states that you CAN achieve eternal life, but not that you WILL.

Your repeated questioning is quite curious, in that it presupposes that the CC’s doctrine on soteriology is mathematical or statistical, which clearly shows a lack of insight as to Jesus’ words and teachings on salvation. He did not create a mathematical formula for the CC to provide us with a census of who’s in hell.

To quote from Peter Kreeft, Catholic philospher at Boston College, *“Outside the Church there is no salvation” does not mean that Protestants and others are not saved, because **this forumula is not an answer to the mind’s curiousity about the populations of heaven and hell, ***but an answer to the sincerely seeking heart’s question “Where is salvation? Where is the road? What has God done to show me how to be saved?” Similarly, Christ’s words to his disciples about “many” choosing the “wide” road to destruction and only “few” finding the “narrow” road to life (Mt 7;14) are not the words of statistician spoken to a census taker, but the words of a loving heavenly Father to his beloved children, warning them of danger. (from his book Catholic Christianity) (bold mine)

thank you PR now I wonder how achris or william will reply to your post here.

 

[PRmerger]

thank you PR now I wonder how achris or william will reply to your post here.

Why do you care so greatly? It’s so puzzling. I’m sure if you went on a 7th day Adventist site you’d get another viewpoint, and if you went to a Jehovah’s witness site you’d get a completely different viewpoint.

You’ve come to a Catholic site and have been provided with the CC’s position, yet you’re still not satisfied

Why don’t you read the Catechism and figure it out yourself, mpjw? What did you understand from the Catechism? That’s the only viewpoint that matters if you’re here on a Catholic website. Otherwise, you might as well go to the JW or LDS or Methodist site…

 

[mpjw2]

That saddens me, mpjw, but what you should have learned in your 35 years as a Catholic is that Jesus is your Beloved…He is more than a mere “best friend”. He is JOINED to you, ONE in the FLESH with you in the Eucharist. Closer to you than you are to your spouse, for the marital embrace merely POINTS to or is an icon of the TRUE UNION we have with Jesus in the Eucharist.

Imagine the relationship you have with your best friend (that is Protestantism); now imagine the intimacy you (ought to) have with your spouse. There is no comparing a friendship with a marriage. Catholicism is the marriage. Protestantism is the friendship.

Now, who wouldn’t want the same intimacy with Jesus that spouses share between themselves? That is only available through the CC, through the Eucharist. (Ok, through our Eastern Orthodox brethren, too! )

PR…as close as you just described your relationship with Jesus, you can not tell me that relationship will continue on the other side of eternity…

after all He has done for you…took your sins, past present and future upon Himself as He was dying on the cross. All that pain and suffering because He loves you so much and that much more.

Do you really believe that Jesus may not welcome you into heaven at the end of the road?

 

[PRmerger]

PR…as close as you just described your relationship with Jesus, you can not tell me that relationship will continue on the other side of eternity…

after all He has done for you…took your sins, past present and future upon Himself as He was dying on the cross. All that pain and suffering because He loves you so much and that much more.

Do you really believe that Jesus may not welcome you into heaven at the end of the road?

My doubt is* never* with Jesus. It is with myself. Just like St. Paul.

 

[mpjw2]

i hope for the sake of your soul you didn’t just make htis stuff up… so you could attack the Catholic Church…

So I can attack the church??? oh my

everyone attacks the Catholic Church…

I am sorry you feel everyone does,
because the catholic chuch is attacked is the precise reason I opened this thread a month ago

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=375301

***Cathlics are hated more than any other group…

I am really sorry you feel this way***

that proves we are right probably more than anything…

maybe we should try and stop proving who is right and who is wrong , and start trusting God more to reveal the truth to those who do not have truth within themself.

God bless

mpjw

 

[mpjw2]

I’m sure if you went on a 7th day Adventist site you’d get another viewpoint, and if you went to a Jehovah’s witness site you’d get a completely different viewpoint.

You’ve come to a Catholic site and have been provided with the CC’s position, yet you’re still not satisfied

Why don’t you read the Catechism and figure it out yourself, mpjw? What did you understand from the Catechism? That’s the only viewpoint that matters if you’re here on a Catholic website. Otherwise, you might as well go to the JW or LDS or Methodist site…

Why do you care so greatly? It’s so puzzling.

well let me solve the puzzle.

in conversation with posters here, many have said they are praying for me to come home to the one true church God founded,

Lets say I made that decision today.

I want to know how I am suppose to believe as a catholic towards others who are not catholic in regards to salvation.

reading the chatecism is not the answer. If it was, then why is there different answers.? and when one gives an answer that another does not agree with then they are anti-cathollic.

and if the chatecism can be misunderstood, so can any other book including the bible.

Bottom line PR, I believe we are too busy trying to prove to each other who is right and who is wrong instead of focusing out attention on what is really important.

And I gotta believe we all know what that is …

God bless

mpjw

 

[guanophore]

people like william…
is there any doubt what he is saying?

No doubt whatsoever. I am sorry. His perspective does not accurately represent the Teaching of the Catholic Church.

Distracted’s continued insistance that the Catholic Church is Roman does not either.

It is a testimony to the fact that the vast majority of Catholics do not know their faith. This is why, when people tell me they “fully understood” the faith, left, and will never return, I am very skeptical.

thank you PR now I wonder how achris or william will reply to your post here.

William referred to the Pope as a “heretic”, which means he is a probably a sedavacentist.
This is a schismatic sect in rebellion against the Magesterium and the successor of Peter. They do not embrace the Teachings of the Catholic Church with regard to the status of Protestants.