do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

[PRmerger]

I want to know how I am suppose to believe as a catholic towards others who are not catholic in regards to salvation.

reading the chatecism is not the answer. If it was, then why is there different answers.?

Clearly, the ones who disagree with the Catechism are not presenting the Catholic POV.

I don’t know what you’re not understanding about this:

Those Catholics who do not agree with what is stated below are stating a Protestant position. It’s as simple as that!

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

 

[PRmerger]

I want to know how I am suppose to believe as a catholic towards others who are not catholic in regards to salvation.

Jesus did not create a mathematical formula for the CC to provide us with a census of who’s in hell.

 

[guanophore]

You can’t be saved either.

Pope Benedict XV (A.D. 1914 - 1922): “Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.” (Encyclical, Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum)

**No soup for you.!!! **

LOL



Now THAT was funny!

 

[guanophore]

I feel closer to God now than I ever did as a catholic

As a catholic I realize now I had no faith or feel the love of God

everything I did was out of obligation. I was told I had to ___________, in order to please God

I had the same experience!

Today, the reason I _______________, is because of my love, respect and appreciation of God for how He illustrated His love for me and the sacrifice He made so I do not have to pay the price, hell, for the sins I have committed and will commit in my life.

I think about this verse when I realize God’s sacrifice…

This verse describes God and Jesus’ love and sacrifiace for all of us.
Not only that but as a catholic I never considered Jesus as a friend.

Jesus layed down His life for all of us, His friends.

I feel closer to God now than I ever did as a catholic

As a catholic I realize now I had no faith or feel the love of God

everything I did was out of obligation. I was told I had to ___________, in order to please God

I had the same experience!

Before you read this, just curious did you ever tell anyone Jesus is your best friend?
I never did as a catholic because I never realized He was.

I cannot say that I had a personal relationship with Him either. I did not think about Him in relation ship to myself.

yes…that is one of the reasons I am here

Help me understand. Why does it matter what Catholics think of your decision? You are clearly much happier with your relationship with the Lord than you were before. You seem to be getting your spiritual needs met. I don’t get it.

guanaphore, as a catholic I did have a belief that only catholics go to heaven…no salvation outside the Catholic church

Yes, I was taught that too. I misunderstood it also.

As you see from this thread achris and william and the release from the vatican, which claims my church is defective, support that belief

What you are saying is that you are accepting an understanding that is based completely upon misunderstanding and misinformation.

How does this help your spiritual journey?

I would guess achris and william are not the only two in the world who do.

No. I maintain that the vast majority of Catholics do not understand their faith. William as clearly willfully departed from the teachings of the Church founded by Christ.

I think that AChris is misinformed, however, I could be wrong,and he may be in rebellion against Apostolic Teaching also. you misunderstand the teaching about ecclesial communities.

However, I still don’t understand why the opinions of those who depart from the Apostolic Faith would matter to you.

I am here to try to get a complete understanding of what the Catholic church teaches

this Is an area of the catholic faith that i reazlize i did not fully understand and to this day still do not.

In that case, I commend you!

I hope, however, rather than taking a poll of personal opinions, you will take the time and effort to understand the Teaching. We who claim to espouse it are not infallible. It is the teaching that is.

Another reason is personal but I do not mind sharing.

My mom is very much catholic and when I try to discuss with her the reason I left the catholic church, it is hard for her to understand. when i try to discuss with her the subject of salvation…it is a closed door discussion…so I do not go there with her.

Yes, this is very difficult. Perhaps your studies will help things to heal?

Once you learn that what you have discovered about salvation by faith in Christ came from the catholic church it may be easier.

another is I have co workers who are catholic.

I like to have a discussion about our faiths and know what I am talking about if the subject of salvation comes up.

You are very noble to undertake the task of understanding differences, and learning about the history of Christianity.

so in review the two scenarios are

**non catholic christians who are aware of the catholic faith and will die non catholic

are they ignorant or in rebellion?

destined for heaven or hell?**

It is up to God to be the judge. We do not judge even ourselves, for, even if we are not aware of anything we are not thereby acquitted. God will one day reveal the hidden motives of the heart.
mpjw2;5770383:

OR

non catholic christians like me who left and will die a non catholic christian

are we ignorant or in rebellion?

destined for heaven or hell?

You don’t know that you will die a non-Catholic Christian, mpjw. You cannot see the future. However, your posts have made it clear that there is a lot you don’t know about the Catholic faith, and that you were given misinformation or misunderstandings in your catechism.

I am afraid Catholics as a whole are not even sure of the answer to these questions

Knowledgeable Catholics will know better than to answer them any differently than PRMerger has already answered. However, I do agree with you that most Catholics are not sure how to answer.

Up until only a few years ago, “it is up to God” was out of my recknoning also.

the only answer so far is all protestants are destined for hell (achris and william) or this is for God to judge (you and PRmerger)

Rather than taking a poll, are you willing to study what the Catholic Church teaches?

Bottom line is this there are non christians looking in which I am concerned about, and I hope you all are too, not just in the catholic community but the whole family of christianity

I don’t really understand this sentence, but I will agree that it is very important for all of us to work toward unity.

 

[guanophore]

How do you believe a non christian feels when they see the the Catholic community post to another (anti-catholic) or not agreeing over an important subject like eternal life or see us non catholics in strong debates with this community?

Again I don’t understand the question. I think people have been hurt and saddened that I confronted Tweety about claiming to be Catholic, yet posting anti-Catholic messages.

I am not sure how non-catholics feel about having strong debates about eternal life. Perhaps you can shed some light on that one?

Non christians I believe need to see love not criticism which some posts very much give the impression of.

Non christians need to see love? If they can’t see it looking at a cross, what better demonstration is there?

I try not to interact with non-Christians here anyhow, so I don’t concern myself much with their needs. I am sure that those who feel called to such a ministry are able to be more supportive and less critical of them.

I do not mind saying that I believe Jesus and the angels are rejocing in heaven over tweetymom’s posts.

Love does not rejoice in the wrong. It is wrong to claim you are Catholic, and misrepresent the Catholic faith. This demonstrates a lack of integrity, or ignorance and pride. Tweety wants to cling to her Protestant theology and point of view, yet claim she is a Catholic. It would be more geniune to just say she is still a Baptist!

I do not even know her and I can feel Jesus’ love all over her posts.

Truthfully, I agree. I think she is a very loving person, open, receptive, welcoming and affirming. I don’t even think she realizes that the content of her posts is not Catholic. However, warm fuzzy feelings are not an adequate subsitute for eternal truth. Don’t you think it is possible to have truth and integrity, and still be loving? I don’t think it is necessary to make a trade, as she has done.

I recall my daughter’s favorite verses when she was 10 years old
From tweetymom’s post, she expresses everyone of them

Well, we see it differently. However, I will concede that she has plenty of the fruit of the Spirit. She has expressed that she is confident in her walk with the Lord, and I will accep that.

guanaphore, why am I also here?

let’s all show Jesus how much we believe His love is the greatest.

mpjw2

Warm fuzzy feelings are not a substitute for Truth.

 

[guanophore]

I’d like to know what you or anyone else has to say about people like AChris of William who reject the authority of the current pope because they sincerely believe he is in error. Are they IN the Church or OUT? Are they in rebellion too ?

It is not up to us to judge the state of their souls. Suffice to say that their postings do not reflect the Apostolic Teachings, and they are not in communion with the church founded by Christ.

Since William calls the Holy Father a “heretic” it seems clear that he prefers to be “out” with regard to the present successor of Peter.

I suspect he is a Sedavacantist.

 

[guanophore]

maybe we should try and stop proving who is right and who is wrong , and start trusting God more to reveal the truth to those who do not have truth within themself.

God bless

mpjw

This is why I posted to you earlier that I am not worried about the status of your soul.

well let me solve the puzzle.

in conversation with posters here, many have said they are praying for me to come home to the one true church God founded,

Lets say I made that decision today.

I want to know how I am suppose to believe as a catholic towards others who are not catholic in regards to salvation.

Doesn’t it make more sense to absorb what the Church actually teaches on the matter, rather than taking an informal poll that includes some people who reject that Teaching?

Besides, given your level of integrity it would not be possible for you to return to the Catholic Church before you had satisfied yourself on this point. Therefore, your hypothesis is invalid.

reading the chatecism is not the answer. If it was, then why is there different answers.? and when one gives an answer that another does not agree with then they are anti-cathollic.

I do agree that reading of itself is not a sufficient answer, If that were the case, then we would not all have different interpretations of scripture. That is precisely the reason Jesus had to appoint a Teaching Authority and preserve them from error.

However, reading the catechism is a very good start. If you do that, you will be able to easily see that some of the answers you have been given are not consistent with it.

Some of the answers are anti-Catholic (calling the pope a heretic), and some are just ignorant (No salvation outside the Church = all non-Catholics go to hell).

and if the chatecism can be misunderstood, so can any other book including the bible

.

I agree. But, does that mean we should not study them?

Bottom line.  I believe we are too busy trying to prove to each other who is right and who is wrong  instead of focusing out attention on what is really important.

That may be, but Catholics determine what is “really important” by receiving the Apostolic Teaching as preserved in the Church. Since others do not receive it that way, and determine what it is from other sources, that is not a place for agreement either.

And I gotta believe we all know what that is .....

God bless

mpjw

No, clearly, there is no agreement there either.

reading the chatecism is not the answer. If it was, then why is there different answers.? and when one gives an answer that another does not agree with then they are anti-cathollic.

and if the chatecism can be misunderstood, so can any other book including the bible.

Bottom line PR, I believe we are too busy trying to prove to each other who is right and who is wrong instead of focusing out attention on what is really important.

And I gotta believe we all know what that is …

God bless

mpjw

 

[Theykickedmeoff]

Hey this is William1776 again I had to get a new name because the dishonest liers who run this website kicked me off. I think they also deleted my posts. I was just saying what I believed but I guess you guys don’t want to debate. You just want to talk among yourselves and come up with loop holes on why basically everyone goes to heaven and then pat youselves on the back for being so holy. I hope you all see the truth, go to www.vaticancatholic.com. But ill probably get reported and kicked off again because I have strong belifes, so have fun in your little club that true Catholics are kicked out of. have fun congradulating each other on how great you are.

 

[mpjw2]

wow william got kicked off!!!

my immediate thought is some people can not handle truth…I remember the famous line from A Few Good Men “you can’t handle the truth”

Maybe William was telling exactly what the church teaches.

Bottom line is just because we believe something is true does not make it absolute truth.

I spoken to people who seriously believe we never walked on the moon…it was all a hollywood show

talk to an atheist…they can make a good argument about there is no God. After we die we rot in our casket and that is it.

warm fuzzy feelings no substitute for truth?.

Jesus is truth
he even associated Himself with people who did not believe in Him.

there are plenty examples of Him being warm and fuzzy.

we all believe we have absolute truth, we are 100% sure of our beliefs.

somewhere …someone…has a false belief

and the day we find out who does will be the day none of us will care because like tweety said …we will be in paradise celebrating in the presence of our Lord Jesus

God bless

 

[PRmerger]

Warm fuzzy feelings are not a substitute for Truth.

Indeed.

“Love without truth would be blind; truth without love would be like ‘a clanging cymbal’ (I Cor 13: 1).”
Pope Benedict16, then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger,

 

[PRmerger]

Sorry, William, these are the rules. You’re going to get kicked off again, for, ironically, coming up with a loophole and getting another user name.

Hey this is William1776 again I had to get a new name because the dishonest liers who run this website kicked me off. I think they also deleted my posts. I was just saying what I believed but I guess you guys don’t want to debate. You just want to talk among yourselves and **come up with loop holes **on why basically everyone goes to heaven and then pat youselves on the back for being so holy. I hope you all see the truth, go But ill probably get reported and kicked off again because I have strong belifes, so have fun in your little club that true Catholics are kicked out of. have fun congradulating each other on how great you are.

Reasons why members are suspended or banned:
6 - Repeat Offenders
Some individuals, after being suspended, sign up under new usernames. (Circumventing a suspension is a bannable offense). When such a situation is detected, the new account will be summarily banned. No explanatory e-mail is sent.

A review of recent public activity by the new account will not reveal the reasons for the ban because the reasons for the original suspension are associated with a different account.

 

[PRmerger]

Maybe William was telling exactly what the church teaches.

AGGGHHH!!!

No.

William.

Was.

Not.

Representing.

The.

Catholic.

Church.

Read the Catechism to see what the CC really teaches. To the degree that a Catholic poster disagrees with the CCC, he is not professing Catholic thought.

 

[emseguin]

Dear NLM

You stated "Protestants DO accept Jesus with all their heart and soul and do what He says and yes we WILL go to heaven because what you have listed here as the way to heaven does not depend on the “label” a denomination nails"

The Catholic Church is not a denomination, it is the True Church of Jesus Christ, founded by Christ, without division. There is only ONE Church, the Catholic Church.

There are thousands of “denominations” of broken Protestant churches, heck, someone is probabaly creating one right now based on what he or she believes and wants…Christ most certainly disagrees with all of these broken, divided churches.
I often wonder which Jesus Christ Protestants are worshiping, because it is not the True Christ, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, truly physically divinely present in the Catholic Church.

My prayers are with you, and all those broken and lost, looking at the easy, feel-good, selfish “Protestant” way, with prayer and scripture taken as they please.
Our Lord, you would think, requires more of us than that. tradition, Sacraments, constant conversion and repentance, penance, self-denying, I mean come on, what wouldnt we do for our Lord! Its an everyday battle against self, and the most freeing, loving way ever.

God bless

 

[mpjw2]

hi PR I have been thinking about how to reply back to you with not just a yes or no.

If I give you just an answer of “yes” that I, based on your scenario, believe no one has assurance of salvaton it would fail to give you what I believe.

For me, I believe God will save me even though right at the climatic enjoyment of my affair with the other woman, I have an instant fatal heart attack in her arms.

Reason I believe that is that God knows my relationship with Him and I trust Him and His Word

PR I am sure you will agree none of us can claim perfection in our daily walk with Jesus. That is why we know the power of forgiveness, by sincerely confessing and repenting of our sins, only by the blood Jesus shed for all of us…

I realize now more than I ever have what Jesus meant when He said we must carry our cross in order to follow Him. Somedays it seems like I am carrying 2 crosses

My doubt is never with Jesus. It is with myself. Just like St. Paul.

I 100% agree PR my doubt is never with Jesus…only with myself

I can relate to the words of Amazing Grace…“that saved a wretch like me”
I thank god for the His Holy Spirit in me who encurages me whenever my flesh tells me God will not save me

It is because that I do not doubt Jesus and His grace that gives me the trust in Him for why He did what He did on the cross.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God 2. Ephesians 2:8

From this verse God tells us that it is not our confidence in ourselve or works which we have done which saves us,

we are saved first and foremost by faith and the grace and work Jesus did for us. That is what Jesus meant on the cross when He exclaimed “It is finished”

As for Paul…Paul may have had doubts just like I do and I am sure others do too.
I am glad you referenced Paul about having doubt about His salvation.

PR, how much doubt do you believe Paul had when He acted on a vision from God and traveled with Timothy and Silas to Macedonia to preach the gospel. A decision that would result in them being flogged and imprisoned.

I often taught this story to my Sunday school class and the kids love it.

from Acts 16…

16Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling.
17This girl… shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.”
18… Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.
19When the owners of the slave girl realized that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to face the authorities. 20They brought them before the magistrates and said, “These men are Jews, and are throwing our city into an uproar
21by advocating customs unlawful for us Romans to accept or practice.”
*(didn’t even realize Paul was Roman) *
22The crowd joined in the attack against Paul and Silas, and the magistrates ordered them to be stripped and beaten.
23After they had been severely flogged, they were thrown into prison, and the jailer was commanded to guard them carefully.
24Upon receiving such orders, he put them in the inner cell and fastened their feet in the stocks.
25About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening to them.
26Suddenly there was such a violent earthquake that the foundations of the prison were shaken. At once all the prison doors flew open, and everybody’s chains came loose.
27The jailer woke up, and when he saw the prison doors open, **he drew his sword and was about to kill himself **because he thought the prisoners had escaped.
28But Paul shouted, “Don’t harm yourself! We are all here!”
29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas.
30He then brought them out and asked, ***“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” ***
31They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved

the simple news of the gospel. Paul did not say “believe Jesus” which is a different meaning than 'believe in Jesus"

One thief I believe let his doubts overwhelm him even though he might have believed Jesus, but because the other thief believed in Jesus is the reason we will see him in heaven and not the other thief.

I repeat what I previously posted…when scripture is taken out of context, different meanings can result especially when you add a verse, book , chapter, etc…

I hope I answered your question.

PR so as you do not miss it…

here is my unanswered question…

I trust in God’s promise that If I confess with my mouth Jesus is Lord and believe God raised Him from the dead, God will save me…that is scripture and I trust God in His word…that is faith

I look forward to seeing you in paradise, I will be there…will you???

by the way, I believe Tweety, nlm and I will greet you should God call us home before you

God bless

mpjw

 

[PRmerger]

For me, I believe God will save me even though right at the climatic enjoyment of my affair with the other woman, I have an instant fatal heart attack in her arms.

That, mpjw, is the most astonishing thing I’ve ever heard a Christian profess. By far.

:bigyikes:

 

[PRmerger]

It is because that I do not doubt Jesus and His grace that gives me the trust in Him for why He did what He did on the cross.

Amen.

From this verse God tells us that it is not our confidence in ourselve or works which we have done which saves us,

Amen.

As for Paul…Paul may have had doubts** just like I do **and I am sure others do too.

Now, I’m confused. you have doubts about what? We’re talking about St. Paul and his doubts about his salvation. So now you’re saying you, also, have doubts about your salvation?

PR, how much doubt do you believe Paul had when He acted on a vision from God and traveled with Timothy and Silas to Macedonia to preach the gospel. A decision that would result in them being flogged and imprisoned.

Doubts about what? His salvation? Or doubts about the Truth of the Gospel?

I think, as Scripture tells us, he worked out his salvation with fear and trembling–so he had doubts about that.

I don’t believe he had a *single doubt *about the message of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.

the simple news of the gospel. Paul did not say “believe Jesus” which is a different meaning than 'believe in Jesus"

Ok.

I repeat what I previously posted…when scripture is taken out of context, different meanings can result especially when you add a verse, book , chapter, etc…

Indeed.

In fact, 40,000 different interpretations have arisen from people taking Scripture out of context.

here is my unanswered question…I look forward to seeing you in paradise, I will be there…will you???

sigh. This question has been answered…

My answer: I do not judge myself. It is the Lord who judges me. I am not aware of anything against myself, (in fact, since I just came back from Mass, I am 100% certain my venial sins have been forgiven!) but I am not thereby acquitted.

 

[mpjw2]

hi all

from my heart I want to thank you all for expressing your beliefs and sharing your heart on this thread.

I believe since we are limited to keystrokes in our communication, false assumptions can arise.

However I do not believe that you can disagree with anything I am about to post. I welcome all comments…please comment where you disagree with me

I will repeat again…one of the reasons I am here is to get a better understanding of the catholic teaching regarding salvation, especially pertaining to someone like me who has been baptized in the CC and is well aware what the CC teaches, left and is not coming back because I do not believe in everything the CC teaches…

in all that guanaphore summarized very accurately,

1. Peter is the Rock upon which Jesus founded the Church
2. Apostolic Succession exists and is valid
3. Jesus meant what He said “this is my Body, this is my Blood”.
4. Jesus has given us a great grace of reconciliation yes but not through the ministerial priesthood
5. The Rosary is a devotion of the Latin Rite, and is not considered part of Apostolic teaching. Not sure what you would have to “come to believe about praying the Rosary”.
   It seems like it would be expedient not to find fault with others who use this devotion, but it is not required. this I did not know
6. That all of our sin nature needs to be purified before we enter heaven (purgatory)
7. That the comnunion of saints mentioned in the creed was actually taught by the Apostles (basis for praying for those who have passed into the next life)
8. That Mary really is the Ark of the New covenant (perpetual virgninity)

As per the opening question…

do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven

Lets look at the chapter in the chatecism on salvation…

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

Just from this heading the CCC teaches no salvation outside the church. But I will not take this heading out of context…lets read on…

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation:

does this apply to all or a certain group of people?

they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

well this applies to me…
I believe and know catholics believe “that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ”

as a catholic I believed that also, but now I do not believe “the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ”

However I do believe that the christian Church which is composed of ALL christian believers in Jesus was founded as necessary by God through Christ"

it seems very clear to me that the CCC teaches that christians like me do not have the fullness of truth within them and that God will not save us because we rebelled against the CC.

William and achris point blank stated I will not be saved.
the vatican released a statement indicating all other churches are defective

carlan indirectly said it

I like to have a discussion about our faiths and know what I am talking about if the subject of salvation comes up.

so in review the two scenarios are

#1 If they are aware of the Catholic faith and been throughly catechized, as I am sure you have been since you have told that you have a mother who is faithful to the Church, then** I would say you left in rebellion**.

#2 unless you repent of your rebellion, I’d say yes, to theplace. (hell, certainly not heaven)

As to the last comment, I’d say Catholics as a whole,… know deep down the answers to those Questions and MPJW as a fallen away Catholic

to my request in trying to “see” through catholic’s eyes and beliefs I posted…

I want to know how I am suppose to believe as a catholic towards others who are not catholic in regards to salvation.

PR responded

Jesus did not create a mathematical formula for the CC to provide us with a census of who’s in hell.

Okay I believe that, but your reply to choy in 189 gives the impression you may have an underlying belief and/or fear which you are not willing to post like william or achris so boldly have done…God will not save christians like me.

choy

personally, I believe it is all up to Jesus being the judge to decide who gets to heaven and who doesn’t.

PRmerger

In a sense, yes; yet in another sense, it’s the individual who chooses to reject Christ and His Church and His Teachings*** that chooses hell.***

When anyone (me for example) says , “I have a problem with the CC’s teaching on ________” (definitely me, I do not believe a lot of the CC’s teachings)

so PR the answer to your question of my concern

thank you PR now I wonder how achris or william will reply to your post here.

you replied

Why do you care so greatly? It’s so puzzling.

simple answer PR is because I do care…why you may ask???

Because it saddens me when I begin to realize that because I believe in Jesus the way I know I believe in Him, you and those who share similiar beliefs as you do, believe

what they’re really saying is “I have
a problem with Jesus’ teaching on _______”. Yikes.

and because you believe PR that I have a problem with Jesus teaching on ___________, don’t you also believe like carlan does that I am destined for the place. (hell, certainly not heaven)?

Not only does this sadden me but I believe from the bottom of my heart that your belief and those who have similiar beliefs sadden Jesus too.

PR, I am a former catholic.
I do not have a problem with anything Jesus teaches.
I know all of the teachings and beliefs of the CC.
I am not coming back

My questions to you now PR or anyone is…

**am I wrong in what I just summarized?

Do you believe Jesus looks at you and I the same…that we are both christians?

Do you believe it really makes a diference to Jesus that you are catholic and I am not?

Do you have an underlying fear God may not save me should I die a non catholic and nothing else will matter?**

thank you PR

God bless you all

just in case you are wondering my answers are no, yes, no , yes

in that order …top to bottom

 

[PRmerger]

However I do not believe that you can disagree with anything I am about to post

I disagree most vociferously with your comment right here:

(I am) well aware what the CC teaches

You have very, very little understanding (said without being inflammatory) what the Eucharist is, what the Mass is, what the priesthood is, what the Magisterium is.

 

[mpjw2]

That, mpjw, is the most astonishing thing I’ve ever heard a Christian profess. By far.

:bigyikes:

You asked me a question and I gave you what I believe

PR…the chance of that happening is…well I got a better chance of hitting the lottery.

but lets tone it down a bit. In the act of commiting any mortal sin, (you name it) lets say you die by heart attack, being hit by a bus, murdered immediately after sinning, with no chance to repent or confess…

what do you believe is your eternal destination?

if your answer is again you are not to judge then one final thought…

PR…as close as I believe your relationship is with Jesus and as faithful as i believe you are, consider all Jesus has done for you…took your sins, past present and future upon Himself as He was dying on the cross…all that pain and suffering because He loves you so much and that much more.

Do you really believe that Jesus may not welcome you into heaven because you had no chance to repent of your sin before your death?

I have to believe had you lived you most definitely would have confessed this and Jesus would know your heart.

That is why I believe He would let His faithful into heaven should His faithful experience such a rare “death after sin with no chance to confess” tragedy.

Having said that, if I am wrong on that belief, I pray that scenario never happens.

okay even if that is true, now I am 99.999999999999999 % assured of my salvation

Give me another reason why you believe I can not have assurance other than dying in mortal sin with no chance to confess and repent.

Paul having doubts is not one of them.

if so then let me ask you

Are you going to let another humans emotions dictate your beliefs?

God bless

mpjw

 

[PRmerger]

You asked me a question and I gave you what I believe

PR…the chance of that happening is…well I got a better chance of hitting the lottery.

but lets tone it down a bit. In the act of commiting any mortal sin, (you name it) lets say you die by heart attack, being hit by a bus, murdered immediately after sinning, with no chance to repent or confess…

what do you believe is your eternal destination?

if your answer is again you are not to judge then one final thought…

PR…as close as I believe your relationship is with Jesus and as faithful as i believe you are, consider all Jesus has done for you…took your sins, past present and future upon Himself as He was dying on the cross…all that pain and suffering because He loves you so much and that much more.

Do you really believe that Jesus may not welcome you into heaven because you had no chance to repent of your sin before your death?

I have to believe had you lived you most definitely would have confessed this and Jesus would know your heart.

That is why I believe He would let His faithful into heaven should His faithful experience such a rare “death after sin with no chance to confess” tragedy.

Having said that, if I am wrong on that belief, I pray that scenario never happens.

okay even if that is true, now I am 99.999999999999999 % assured of my salvation

Give me another reason why you believe I can not have assurance other than dying in mortal sin with no chance to confess and repent.

Paul having doubts is not one of them.

if so then let me ask you

Are you going to let another humans emotions dictate your beliefs?

God bless

mpjw

Sorry, mpjw, I will discuss all other things Catholic with you, but I simply cannot discuss this particular issue–there is nothing more to be said if you “believe God will save me even though right at the climatic enjoyment of my affair with the other woman, I have an instant fatal heart attack in her arms.”.

That is a lie hatched by the Deceiver and I won’t discuss this further.