do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

[distracted]

They will never give you a clear answer to that one… I was churched from my early childhood on through daycare, pre-school, kindergarten and school. I was an altar server, read during mass, taught altar servers, taught confirmation classes, had Catholic religion as a major in school, spend 10 months at a nunnery and still they tell me I was poorly catechized now that I left the RCC…
They don’t have the guts to tell a Muslim where he is heading without the Lord, so why would they tell us what they think about us?
I know I am not headed for hell… I am actually certain I am going to heaven…
And after all the information that I have gotten (and still get) about the RCC I am also certain that I will not return into the fold.

if you had had a life like mine, you wouldn’t say this… The Cahtolic Church saved my miserable life…

everyone “has God”… is aware of him… loves his goodness… even terrible sinners appreciate what he has made and sometimes give him some kind of lip service…

but eveyone does not have the will of God to any extent… In other words, Jesus said that not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven… only those who do the will of the Father, which means doing everything Jesus said.

Jesus established HIs Church… Why are you not in it???

if the Catholic Church is not the right one, which one do you think is???

and no, i am not saying you are going to Hell… the Church doesn’t teach that just being outside the Church (by itself) leads one to Hell… but if you know that the RCC is the right Church and you refuse to re-join it… well, all i can say is that i would not want to be you … i think even those IN the Church are headed for long stays in Purgatory and that’s if their lucky… (just my opinion)…

the Church DOES teach that when you reject Christ’s Church you are jeopardizing your salvation… notice the word jeopardize… the Church does not say absolutely that the one who does this is going to Hell… but the implication can be made… i don’t know about anyone else, but i would not want to do anything to jeopardize my salvation…

Jesus said that it is hard to find the narrow road that leads to heaven…

he said that many would attmept to enter but would not be able…

Absolute holiness is only found in the One true Church… and holiness is needed for salvation… “Without holiness it is impossible to please God.” the word Holy means separate. Most people are NOT separate from the unholy things of this world… when they are outside the Church…

the teachings of the RCC are holy… All other Churches teach error to one extent or another…

 

[Janet1983]

Jesus established HIs Church… Why are you not in it???

I am in His Church… I became a member on the day I got saved.

if the Catholic Church is not the right one, which one do you think is???

Here is a quote from an article that explains it very nicely:
“People mistakenly think that there is an earthly organization that is the one true church. The true church is not an organization, not a series of buildings, but the body of true believers. The true church consists of those who are regenerate; that is, it consists of those who are the true Christians. There are, however, churches that are Christian and churches that are not Christian.”

i don’t know about anyone else, but i would not want to do anything to jeopardize my salvation…

I wouldn’t want that either… I am saved however and I follow Jesus Christ, not the pope nor the bishop nor anybody else who claims to have the right to be an intermediary between me and my Lord.

Jesus said that it is hard to find the narrow road that leads to heaven…

he said that many would attmept to enter but would not be able…

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it… Half of all people who call themselves Christians can’t be wrong, right?

 

[AChris]

One has to be Catholic to get into heaven?? I couldn’t disagree more… Let’s see what the Bible tells us:

It doesn’t say anything about being part of the RCC… I know I will get to heaven when I die and that is already much more than most Catholics can say of themselves… I was raised in the RCC, living in a small Catholic village with a Catholic Daycare, a Catholic pre-school, a Catholic kindergarten and a Catholic elementary school. I did not go to the Catholic high school because they were not bilingual, but the public school I went to did have Catholic religion classes and a weekly mass during the first period on Thursday.
All of this does not guarantee me any entry into heaven. All these things are just as much filthy rags as are all the church activities that I participated in and partly even led. (I actually did teach classes for kids who wanted to go to confirmation.)

Why ask what the Bible tells us? Why not ask what the Koran or the book of mormon tells us? Why not look for ancient Buddhist or Hindu texts? Could it be that you recognize it as being from God? If it’s from God, then the Church also must be from God since the Church wrote it, and decided which books should be in it. Then, if the same God inspired it as the God who made the Catholic Church, then wouldn’t it make sense that the Catholic Church’s interpretation of it might be the only interpretation worth reading?

You just called the Mass “filthy rags”. We call it a “holy sacrifice” - the same sacrifice as Christ’s death on the cross…offered up to the Father for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[distracted]

I amHere is a quote from an article that explains it very nicely:
“People mistakenly think that there is an earthly organization that is the one true church. The true church is not an organization, not a series of buildings, but the body of true believers. The true church consists of those who are regenerate; that is, it consists of those who are the true Christians. There are, however, churches that are Christian and churches that are not Christian.”

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it… Half of all people who call themselves Christians can’t be wrong, right?

of course they can …

most people go to Hell… so why listen to mere humans… don’t know why you quoted that minister … i don’t listen to non-Catholic ministers any more… NEVER…

i have found the Truth… and those who leave the RCC are leaving absolute, objective Truth…

in other words, Jesus…

 

[Janet1983]

You just called the Mass “filthy rags”. We call it a “holy sacrifice” - the same sacrifice as Christ’s death on the cross…offered up to the Father for the forgiveness of sins.

Are you trying to lay things into my mouth to get upset about?
I did not call your mass a filthy rag… what I did say however is that all of our “good” works are as filthy rags… All we do to try and obtain heaven by our own effort and our own works is not more than that. Apart from the Lord we are lost…
Jesus Christ tells us this very simply:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[AChris]

…and a weekly mass during the first period on Thursday.
All of this does not guarantee me any entry into heaven. All these things are just as much filthy rags as…

Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[AChris]

I’m sure you already know what I’m going to say…but I’ll say it anyway…true, nothing we do apart from God has value. We depend on grace. But grace alone, without our cooperation with it, without our “fiat mihi” and good works, won’t get us there either.

Sola Gratia, wasn’t that Calvin’s idea? Like Sola Scriptura was Luther’s?

 

[PRmerger]

They will never give you a clear answer to that one…

See my post, Janet, for the “clear answer to that one.”

 

[AChris]

For those who talk about invisible churches:

MYSTICI CORPORIS Pius XII (section 14)

“The Church is visible because she is a body. Hence they err in a matter of divine truth, who imagine the Church to be invisible, intangible, a something merely “pneumatological” as they say, by which many Christian communities, though they differ from each other in their profession of faith, are untied by an invisible bond.”

 

[guanophore]

For me, I believe God will save me even though right at the climatic enjoyment of my affair with the other woman, I have an instant fatal heart attack in her arms.

The Apostles taught otherwise. They taught that a person who does such things does not inherit the Kingdom of heaven. They taught that a person who does such things is, by default, not in a right relationship with God.

Reason I believe that is that God knows my relationship with Him and I trust Him and His Word

Indeed you are right. Your relationship with Him would be on the outs, since those who love Him follow His commandments. Your action would make it clear that you are not in a loving relationship with Him.

You really are not trusting His word. You are picking and choosing which parts apply to you, and are leaving out the rest. You are ignoring where it says that persons who engage in this behavior will not inherit the Kingdom.

I am sure you will agree none of us can claim perfection in our daily walk with Jesus. That is why we know the power of forgiveness, by sincerely confessing and repenting of our sins, only by the blood Jesus shed for all of us…

Yes, but do you honestly believe that, as you are having this climactic enjoyment of adultery that you are in a state of repentance from sins?!

I realize now more than I ever have what Jesus meant when He said we must carry our cross in order to follow Him. Somedays it seems like I am carrying 2 crosses

At least you have not jettisoned the Apostolic teaching of embracing suffering. There is something to be said for that.

I thank god for the His Holy Spirit in me who encurages me whenever my flesh tells me God will not save me

If that flesh is participating in adultery, then it is not the HS telling you salvation is sealed!

It is because that I do not doubt Jesus and His grace that gives me the trust in Him for why He did what He did on the cross.

His work on the cross was not a license for flesh to fulfill it’s pleasures.

From this verse God tells us that it is not our confidence in ourselve or works which we have done which saves us,

Of course not, but it is your works that can deprive you of your heavenly inheritance.

we are saved first and foremost by faith and the grace and work Jesus did for us. That is what Jesus meant on the cross when He exclaimed “It is finished”

he was referring to the completion of the Passover. That was the fourth cup.

As for Paul…Paul may have had doubts just like I do and I am sure others do too.
I am glad you referenced Paul about having doubt about His salvation.

Those were not “doubts”. Those statements are part of the Apostolic Teaching that our salvation is not completed in this life, and that our names can be blotted out of the book of life.

 how much doubt do you believe Paul had when He acted on a vision from God and traveled  with Timothy and Silas to Macedonia to preach the gospel. A decision that would result in them being flogged and imprisoned.

What is the point of such a question? He was acting in faith. If you know what is going to happen, there is no need to act in faith. Or to have hope, either.

 ..when scripture is taken out of context, different meanings can result especially when you add a verse, book , chapter,  etc............

Indeed, you have given a good example of how this happens.

I hope I answered your question.

You sure answered a lot of mine!

 

[guanophore]

However I do not believe that you can disagree with anything I am about to post. I welcome all comments…please comment where you disagree with me

I will repeat again…one of the reasons I am here is to get a better understanding of the catholic teaching regarding salvation, especially pertaining to someone like me who has been baptized in the CC and is well aware what the CC teaches, left and is not coming back because I do not believe in everything the CC teaches…

mpjw2, you may think you are “well aware of what the CC teaches” but you are kidding yourself. Your posts have made it quite clear that this is not the case.

Lets look at the chapter in the chatecism on salvation…

does this apply to all or a certain group of people?

The Church is necessary for the salvation fo al people on earth.

well this applies to me....

No, mpjw2, it does not. It applies to those who understand the teachings, which you have demonstrated that you do not.

I believe and know catholics believe “that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ”

as a catholic I believed that also, but now I do not believe “the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ”

However I do believe that the christian Church which is composed of ALL christian believers in Jesus was founded as necessary by God through Christ"

You have a great deal of lack of clarity about what “Catholic” means. Jesus only founded ONe Church. there is only One Body. All who are saved are members of it.

it seems very clear to me that the CCC teaches that christians like me do not have the fullness of truth within them and that God will not save us because we rebelled against the CC.

This is proof that what seems clear to you is really an error and a misunderstanding.

William and achris point blank stated I will not be saved.

the vatican released a statement indicating all other churches are defective

’

William and aChris do not reflect the teaching of the Church.

The fact that ecclesial communities are lacking part of the fullness of the faith does not equate to the members of them not being saved. Your conclusion is erroneous because it is based upon a false understanding of the premise. You have made an error in logic.

carlan indirectly said it

Carlon’s assessment that you left the Church in rebellion, while it may be accurate, does not equate to the Doctrine of the Faith. Carlon, and none of us, are able to judge the hidden thoughts and intentions of your heart.

to my request in trying to “see” through catholic’s eyes and beliefs I posted…

Okay I believe that, but your reply to choy in 189 gives the impression you may have an underlying belief and/or fear which you are not willing to post like william or achris so boldly have done…God will not save christians like me.-

It is inappropriate for us to pronounce judgement on the eternal status of anyone’s soul. This is the Apostolic Teaching. Anyone who does otherwise is disobedient to the teaching of the Church.

You seem to be bent on trying to get Catholics to tell you that you are going to hell. You are trying to goad us into doing something that is disobedient to our faith. I cannot imagine what pleasure you would get out of such an activity.’

Because it saddens me when I begin to realize that because I believe in Jesus the way I know I believe in Him, you and those who share similiar beliefs as you do, believe

and because you believe that I have a problem with Jesus teaching on ___________, don’t you also believe like carlan does that I am destined for the place. (hell, certainly not heaven)?

Clearly you are having problems with the Teachings of Jesus. So did many of His disciples in Jn 6. They walked away, muttering “this is a hard saying who can listen to it?”

We don’t know how many of them came to their senses while there was still time, and came back. It is not up to us to pronounce judgement upon him.

Not only does this sadden me but  I believe from the bottom of my heart that your belief and those who have similiar beliefs sadden Jesus too.

This is because you don’t understand the teachings of Jesus that are found in the Catholic Church.

PR, I am a former catholic.

Yes and no. You apparently were baptized Catholic, but you were not catechized very well,a s there are a lot of fundamentals that you dont’ understand.

I do not have a problem with anything Jesus teaches.

I know all of the teachings and beliefs of the CC.

You are having problems with Jesus’ teachings.

You don’t know all the Teachings.

I am not coming back

You don’t know what you may, or may not do. You may intend not to do so today, based upon your erroneous concepts. If you stay on CAF, who knows? You may learn the Truth!

My questions to you now is..

am I wrong in what I just summarized?

Yes.
mpjw2;5782155:

Do you believe Jesus looks at you and I the same...that we are both christians?

Jesus looks upon the heart of each one individually. Only He can know the hidden motives of the heart.

Do you believe it really makes a diference to Jesus that you are catholic and I am not?

Of course! Don’t you think He wanted unity among us?

Do you have an underlying fear God may not save me should I die a non catholic and nothing else will matter?

Such a question clearly shows that you do not understand the Teaching of the Church.

 

[PRmerger]

I get it PR
800 posts PR and finally we get the answer to the OP question… you are the first to to comfirm my suspitions…

My response is only a repeat of what’s been said over and over and over.
Do you remember reading this post that in which I answered your question way, way back on page 45?

And, that was a re-post from here, in which I answered your question way back on Sept 16.

sigh

Apologies to those who have to read the same response ad nauseum.

 

[mpjw2]

Well, I guess thats up to you, take your chances,Me I’d take the challenge, what would I have to lose. Of course I still look at you as a Baptized Catholic even tho’ you have fallen away and was apparently not well catechized in the first place. Carlan

hmm, take the challenge?

nah…here is why

if I take the challenge, educate myself, and do not come back, I have rebelled and I choose hell for sure if I never return.

at least if I stay uneducated as you believe I am, I have at least a chance of getting to heaven.
I cant rebell against the church if I do not fully understand…

correct?

thank you and

God bless

 

[PRmerger]

. I know all of the teachings and beliefs of the CC.

mpjw: do you know where is the Mass in the book of Revelation?

What prayers from the Mass are from Scripture? Can you name all of them?

(I’m hoping you’ll be intellectually honest and rely on your current prodigious knowledge of the CC without using any resources.)

 

[mpjw2]

See my post, Janet, for the “clear answer to that one.”

and that is the first time PR you said you believe I am going to hell…being well educated because then I would be in rebellion …

the other posts you only said you would tremble for my soul which is not as definitive as a belief I will go to hell with no chance of heaven.

 

[PRmerger]

and that is the first time PR you said you believe I am going to hell…being well educated because then I would be in rebellion .

And that is the first time, mpjw, that you gave specific criteria, right?

More questions on Catholicism for you:

What is the Marriage Feast of the Lamb?

Why does the Church teach that if you divorce and marry another it’s adultery? (BTW, does your church recognize the marriage of divorcees who re-marry?)

 

[mpjw2]

mpjw: do you know where is the Mass in the book of Revelation?

What prayers from the Mass are from Scripture? Can you name all of them?

(I’m hoping you’ll be intellectually honest and rely on your current prodigious knowledge of the CC without using any resources.)

PR in all due respect, I asked you a few questions I am still waiting an answer on. I will be happy to answer this last question and then if you would be so kind as to answer my questions to you…thank you

I have been away from the CC for over 20 years, I do not know what prayers of scriptue, except the Lords prayer are from scripture.

Whether I do or not, do you believe I have a better chance of salvation if I stay uneducated.

This way I can not be in rebellion … correct?

thank you and God bless

I look forward to your answers to the other questions I asked you

 

[PRmerger]

I have been away from the CC for over 20 years, I do not know what prayers of scriptue, except the Lords prayer are from scripture.

Ah. I see.

Whether I do or not, do you believe I have a better chance of salvation if I stay uneducated.

No, I believe you have a better chance of salvation when you have the Eucharist, the Mass, the teachings of the Magisterium…when you have the TRUTH.

You cannot know Jesus intimately until you know Him fully.

 

[PRmerger]

PR in all due respect, I asked you a few questions I am still waiting an answer on. will be happy to answer this last question and then if you would be so kind as to answer my questions to you…thank you

Ok. But I don’t really know why you wouldn’t want to answer those questions about the Catholic faith, since you’ve been quite adamant about your knowledge of it. It would kind of settle the doubts, wouldn’t it?

Anyway, I believe that I have the dibs on the first unanswered question, way back here: on page 53. Perhaps you could answer that, too?

(You said you have doubts, just like St. Paul. What kind of doubts? Doubts about your salvation?)

 

[mpjw2]

Ah. I see.

No, I believe you have a better chance of salvation when you have the Eucharist, the Mass, the teachings of the Magisterium…when you have the TRUTH.

You cannot know Jesus intimately until you know Him fully.

PR please stop adding to my questions. I know you believe I have a better chance of salvation if I come back to the CC and have the mass, the Eucharist, etc…

I am not coming back

again my question is, by choosing to stay away from the CC, is it your belief I have a better chance of salvation being not fully educated on the CC than if I was fully educated?

I can not get any more specific than that.

by the way when I said I know about the CC and all its teachings, I believed I did know. You and others have illustrated to me the knowledge I have is not 100% of all there is to know about the CC.

my apologies for unintentionally misrepresenting my knowledge of the CC.