P
PRmerger
Guest
Yes.
No.
The CC does not say that God will not save you. (repeated ad nauseum)
You cannot rebel against what you do not know.
- Status
The CC does not say that God will not save you. (repeated ad nauseum)
You cannot rebel against what you do not know.
M
mpjw2
Guest
me
you
you have a right to your opinion, I will not debate this on this thread being it is off topic
what is on topic is the questions that you did not answer
please do not answer “it is not for me to judge”
Do you not have a gut feeling or belief?
at least post I would rather not say if that is the case which i will gladly accept:thumbsup:
thank you
mpjw
P
PRmerger
Guest
Let’s make an analogy:
You are asking for directions to my house, mpjw. You were at my house once when you were little.
I give you directions that say, “Go straight on Main St.”
You: But William and achris, who say they’ve been to your house, say to go right.
Me: No, the directions say to Stay Straight.
You: But William and achris say to go right.
Me: If you go right you will end up in the Mississippi River. Stay Straight. See the directions I gave you. What does that say?
You: It says to Stay Straight. But it could also mean to go right. William and Achris said to go right to get to your house.
Me: No, the directions say Stay Straight.
You: Well, now I don’t know what to believe!
Me: sigh
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Why is this in the Non-Catholic Religion section? It makes no sense to discuss this from a Non-Catholic Religion. You need to be united to Jesus Christ to get to Heaven through faith in the gospel of God. If you are looking to the Catholic Church without Christ… you willl not be in Heaven. The Catholic Faith is as effectual as it points Catholics to Jesus Christ.I heard something on Catholic Answers Radio years ago concerning this…
I can’t remember who said it but he was a guest on the show and he said that all Christians will be Catholic before they get into Heaven. If the person is a protestant and dies in a state of grace, he will go to Purgatory and then will learn that the Roman Catholic Church was the One Church… founded by Christ and will then have to, in Purgatory… well, to paraphrase his words… he will have to become Catholic…
i totally belive this.
so why are we not working harder to make everyone Catholic??
true, we can’t make anyone Catholic any more than we can make everyone Republican(Too bad, huh??)
but there are many things we can do…
and it seems we aren’t doing them… seems we Catholics don’t want to make too many more Catholics… (genearlly speakign)
M
mpjw2
Guest
excellent scenario PR
I know what you are saying. But while at your house I believed I was at God’s one only house. While away I found out there are many more christian homes …churches built by God
I believe you when you say go straight to your house, I am not going right either, I am turning left.
Let me add another question to those previously asked,
If I did ALL my homework and you can agree and believe with me that I know exactly what the CC teaches and I still refuse to come back, then do you believe I then have rebelled against the church and are destined for hell?
thank you
I know what you are saying. But while at your house I believed I was at God’s one only house. While away I found out there are many more christian homes …churches built by God
I believe you when you say go straight to your house, I am not going right either, I am turning left.
Let me add another question to those previously asked,
If I did ALL my homework and you can agree and believe with me that I know exactly what the CC teaches and I still refuse to come back, then do you believe I then have rebelled against the church and are destined for hell?
thank you
A
AChris
Guest
Someone asked if I’m a “sede” - no. I think the current pope is the valid successor of St. Peter. Do I submit to all of his infallible statements. Yes, of course.
I’m also surprised someone asked my opinon. All I can say is what the Church has said.
The Church has several creeds, not just the one we say at Mass.
These creeds articulate what God wants everyone to believe, because they express the truth…even if nobody believes the truth.
Here they are:
catholictradition.org/Tradition/creeds.htm
Notice the very first and the very last.
Someone quoted someone in Boston saying something very different than what is very easily understood here. He seems to say the ancients didn’t know what they were talking about, or they failed to express what they really meant. Who do you want to beieve? You choose.
Is it uncharitable to answer a question with defined Church doctrine…even if the answer is not what you want or expect?
What does the devil want? Doesn’t he want as many people with him as possible?
And what would be the easiest way to do this? Wouldn’t it be to get people to think they’re doing OK because they feel good, in order to get them to stay away from confession and the sacraments?
I’m also surprised someone asked my opinon. All I can say is what the Church has said.
The Church has several creeds, not just the one we say at Mass.
These creeds articulate what God wants everyone to believe, because they express the truth…even if nobody believes the truth.
Here they are:
catholictradition.org/Tradition/creeds.htm
Notice the very first and the very last.
Someone quoted someone in Boston saying something very different than what is very easily understood here. He seems to say the ancients didn’t know what they were talking about, or they failed to express what they really meant. Who do you want to beieve? You choose.
Is it uncharitable to answer a question with defined Church doctrine…even if the answer is not what you want or expect?
What does the devil want? Doesn’t he want as many people with him as possible?
And what would be the easiest way to do this? Wouldn’t it be to get people to think they’re doing OK because they feel good, in order to get them to stay away from confession and the sacraments?
A
AChris
Guest
The Athanasian Creed
[QUICUNQUE VULT]
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic [Apostolic/Universal] Faith, which except everyone shall have kept whole and undefiled, without doubt he will perish eternally.
Now the Catholic Faith is this: …
The Trentine Creed or
The Creed of Pius IV. , A.D. 1564.
[QUICUNQUE VULT]
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic [Apostolic/Universal] Faith, which except everyone shall have kept whole and undefiled, without doubt he will perish eternally.
Now the Catholic Faith is this: …
The Trentine Creed or
The Creed of Pius IV. , A.D. 1564.
- And I condemn, reject, and anathematize all things contrary thereto,
and all heresies whatsoever, condemned, rejected, and anathematized by
the Church. This true Catholic faith, without which no one can be saved,
I. N.N. do at this present freely confess and sincerely hold; and I promise most
constantly to retain, and confess the same entire and unviolated…
P
PRmerger
Guest
To which Catholics respond: Amen!
However, it says nothing about Protestants, Pagans, Jews, Muslims, etc going to Hell.
P
PRmerger
Guest
LOL! If you decide you’re going to turn left despite the directions to stay straight, that’s the spirit of rebellion for sure!
If you’ve been given the directions by the Master to Go Straight, and you decide, “Well I’m going to turn left!”, you’re going to end up in the Wrong Place.
Yes, you would be destined for Hell. Absolutely. :sad_yes:
M
mpjw2
Guest
I get it PR
800 posts PR and finally we get the answer to the OP question… you are the first to to comfirm my suspitions…
that the CC teaches catholics have the best chance to go to heaven.
any christian who is fully educated on the CC and refuses to be a member of the church is destined for hell unless they repent and confess and join the church prior to their death
as for under educated non catholics and those who never heard the gospel, it will be by the devine mercy of God which they can enter heaven.
Am I correct?
is there any other way catholics can point too?
M
mpjw2
Guest
neither does not say that all those you mention have a way to heaven
M
mpjw2
Guest
guanafore, warm fuzzy feelings are not a substitute for truth??
interesting comment
If you came across a cure for cancer, would you just claim to the world “I have a cure for cancer” and do nothing else and hope people will believe you?
What do you believe most people’s reaction would be?
If you really believe you have truth…
what is more important,
telling people that which you believe to be true
or
taking the time to gain people’s trust in you so that when you tell them the truth of what they do not presently believe you are more believable and trusting to them.
Just imagine meeting someone for the first time and exclaiming to them “you and I are going to be married”
you may believe that in your heart, but you will probably not see that person again
mpjw
interesting comment
If you came across a cure for cancer, would you just claim to the world “I have a cure for cancer” and do nothing else and hope people will believe you?
What do you believe most people’s reaction would be?
If you really believe you have truth…
what is more important,
telling people that which you believe to be true
or
taking the time to gain people’s trust in you so that when you tell them the truth of what they do not presently believe you are more believable and trusting to them.
Just imagine meeting someone for the first time and exclaiming to them “you and I are going to be married”
you may believe that in your heart, but you will probably not see that person again
mpjw
C
Carlan
Guest
Mpjw2, Goodness me, after all that,and you mean to tell me you would still refuse to go back to the True Church . I don’t believe it. If for real you actually read up on all possible information out there since the beginning at Pentecost, the early Church Fathers,on down through the past 2000 years,I say you would not be able to turn your back on Jesus Christ in his Church. Mpjw2, I challenge you to get started on it today. Carlan
D
distracted
Guest
that’s the 1st time i have heard an (alleged) Catholic say such a thing. It is NOT the teaching of the Church…
there is a LOT of misinformation out there on waht the Cahtolic Church teaches… but then that’s not surprising since Jesus was often misunderstood… and hated… as he tells us we his followers will be…
wanta to be super-hated as a Christian so you know that you are really his?? become Catholic.
M
mpjw2
Guest
and if I do not , do you fear I might be headed for the
place?or is that only if I am fully educated and refuse to come back?
what do you believe carlan if I do not fully educate myself?
not for you to judge like PR?
thank you
God bless
C
Carlan
Guest
Well, I guess thats up to you, take your chances,Me I’d take the challenge, what would I have to lose. Of course I still look at you as a Baptized Catholic even tho’ you have fallen away and was apparently not well catechized in the first place.and if I do not , do you fear I might be headed for the
or is that only if I am fully educated and refuse to come back?
what do you believe carlan if I do not fully educate myself?
not for you to judge like PR?
thank you
God bless
Carlan
J
Janet1983
Guest
One has to be Catholic to get into heaven?? I couldn’t disagree more… Let’s see what the Bible tells us:I heard something on Catholic Answers Radio years ago concerning this…
I can’t remember who said it but he was a guest on the show and he said that all Christians will be Catholic before they get into Heaven. If the person is a protestant and dies in a state of grace, he will go to Purgatory and then will learn that the Roman Catholic Church was the One Church… founded by Christ and will then have to, in Purgatory… well, to paraphrase his words… he will have to become Catholic…
i totally belive this.
so why are we not working harder to make everyone Catholic??
true, we can’t make anyone Catholic any more than we can make everyone Republican
but there are many things we can do…
and it seems we aren’t doing them… seems we Catholics don’t want to make too many more Catholics… (genearlly speakign)
What would keep somebody from getting into heaven?
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death…
1 Corinthians 6:9 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Galatians 5:19-21 - Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Revelation 9:21 - Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 21:27 - And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Revelation 22:15 - For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Well I guess sin could keep us from getting into heaven…
So what can we do to get into heaven (and has being a Catholic got something to do with it?
Isaiah 64:6 - But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
If we could earn our way into heaven, Jesus died for nothing…
Galatians 2:21 - I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
So how do we get there?
Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Ephesians 2:1-10
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
It doesn’t say anything about being part of the RCC… I know I will get to heaven when I die and that is already much more than most Catholics can say of themselves… I was raised in the RCC, living in a small Catholic village with a Catholic Daycare, a Catholic pre-school, a Catholic kindergarten and a Catholic elementary school. I did not go to the Catholic high school because they were not bilingual, but the public school I went to did have Catholic religion classes and a weekly mass during the first period on Thursday.
All of this does not guarantee me any entry into heaven. All these things are just as much filthy rags as are all the church activities that I participated in and partly even led. (I actually did teach classes for kids who wanted to go to confirmation.)
J
Janet1983
Guest
They will never give you a clear answer to that one… I was churched from my early childhood on through daycare, pre-school, kindergarten and school. I was an altar server, read during mass, taught altar servers, taught confirmation classes, had Catholic religion as a major in school, spend 10 months at a nunnery and still they tell me I was poorly catechized now that I left the RCC…
They don’t have the guts to tell a Muslim where he is heading without the Lord, so why would they tell us what they think about us?
I know I am not headed for hell… I am actually certain I am going to heaven…
And after all the information that I have gotten (and still get) about the RCC I am also certain that I will not return into the fold.
D
distracted
Guest
i don’t understand a lot about the Eastern churches, that is true.
but i know one thing and that is that Christ established ONE Church…
if the eastern ones are not in line with the pope, if they believe, as i think they do, that the pope is not infallible or if there is some other reason they are not “with” him, then they are outside the true Church…
and based on my knowledge of such things at this point i say that the Roman Catholic Church is the true Church…In other words: all those churches that reject the pope are NOT…
D
distracted
Guest
you don’t understand Catholicsm… if you did you would be Catholic.
i ought to know… i have been Catholic and i have been non-Catholic (more/less)… which was a LONG time ago…
Catholicism is the fullness of Christianity, the fullness of what the Lord wants for us… He said he would not leave us orphans…
I could never overcome sin until i became Catholic. As a human, i still struggle but i am far further along than i ever was before… As you listed in your post, there are many sins that keep one from attaining Heaven.
none of the scripture psgs refutes Catholicism… In fact, they uphold the Catholic faith, as all scripture does…
but the Church came before the written Word of God. What did people do before 1440 when the printin press was invented and not everyone had their own bible???
Jesus never said (at least not in the Bible) to “go out and write books”… He said to preach the Word and baptize in the name of the Trinity…
He probably realized how confused everyone would be if they had a book…
but of course He did…
Jesus knows everything…
(another reason he built his Catholic Church: he knew what was coming. He knows human nature… )
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