do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

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Follow_Yeshua said:
I will never submit to Rome and her edicts but yet I believe in Jesus the almighty and I wait in hope for his return not by site or miracle but by faith. That is damnable?
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Here is what is happening. You came into these forums to discuss and learn. You are now on the road to Rome. The road that God intends us to travel. You now have choices: to continue the journey or reject the true teachings of Jesus preserved through his One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. One choice is damnable the other is not.
 
buffalo said:
Here is what is happening. You came into these forums to discuss and learn. You are now on the road to Rome. The road that God intends us to travel. You now have choices: to continue the journey or reject the true teachings of Jesus preserved through his One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. One choice is damnable the other is not.
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the choice is damnable but the person… mabye not…

if he doesn’t truly believe the Catholic religion is the right one, he’s not culpable…

you probably already know this but your post seemed to indicate otherwise… or at least to me…

If a person knows or suspects that the RCC is the true Church of Christ on Earth… and rejects it, refuses to join … he is in big trouble…
 
distracted said:
I heard something on Catholic Answers Radio years ago concerning this…

I can’t remember who said it but he was a guest on the show and he said that all Christians will be Catholic before they get into Heaven. If the person is a protestant and dies in a state of grace, he will go to Purgatory and then will learn that the Roman Catholic Church was the One Church… founded by Christ and will then have to, in Purgatory… well, to paraphrase his words… he will have to become Catholic…

i totally belive this.

so why are we not working harder to make everyone Catholic??

true, we can’t make anyone Catholic any more than we can make everyone Republican 🙂 (Too bad, huh??) 😃

but there are many things we can do…

and it seems we aren’t doing them… seems we Catholics don’t want to make too many more Catholics… (genearlly speakign)
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Eternal Life = faith in Christ

not

Eternal Life = Catholic

: )
 
zrs6v4 said:
Eternal Life = faith in Christ

not

Eternal Life = Catholic

: )
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Jesus would not have established a Church (visible, a City on a Hill)… if he didn’t desire that eveyrone be in it…

again, there are things in the RCC that other churches don’t have… non Catholics are missing out… big time…

you do not have ALL of Christ if you do not have His Church… that is just simple logic…

and explains why Protestants, according to reliable sources (saints) spend more time in Purg after death than Catholics…
 
.

If i’m not mistaken, it was Karl Keating, Founder of Catholic Answers (CAF) who said that stuff written in OP… about how if a Christian is not Catholic by the time he dies, he will become Catholic before entering Heaven…

or maybe he said: “When he is in heaven”… Whatever…
 
4EverHis said:
umm the Catholic Church wasn’t around back then 🙂 it started on Pentecost.
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the thief went to paradise (could be different than Heaven?? could have been the upper level of Purgatory???) because he embraced Christ, accepted his forgivenes…

and Jesus may not have said he would be in paradise THis Day…

he could have said,

I tell you this day… that you will be with me in paradise…

as in: This is the day i am telling you…

not as in: you will be in paradise THIS Day…

so this psg doesn’t necessarily say as much as some read into it…
 
Several years ago, when the war ragged in Ireland between " so-called " Christians, I remember asking myself how was it possible for two groups of humans who supposedly believed in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, this because they believed in Baptism in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit could actually KILL themselves in the name of the EXACT thing they both shared as fundamental beliefs. From reading these threads for the past several weeks, I can understand it perfectly now.Very sad really. I see now what I have left behind and what I have gained.I believe we are ALL in for MANY surprises when we get to heaven. The last laugh will NOT be ours I am afraid.NLM
 
nlm said:
Several years ago, when the war ragged in Ireland between " so-called " Christians, I remember asking myself how was it possible for two groups of humans who supposedly believed in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, this because they believed in Baptism in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit could actually KILL themselves in the name of the EXACT thing they both shared as fundamental beliefs. From reading these threads for the past several weeks, I can understand it perfectly now.Very sad really. I see now what I have left behind and what I have gained.I believe we are ALL in for MANY surprises when we get to heaven. The last laugh will NOT be ours I am afraid.NLM
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which came first - the chiken or the egg?😃

Protestant or Catholic (your life)?

just wondering…

not sure waht poiint you are trying to make in this post…

yes, it is sad we Christians don’t get along… and yes there are rude, un-Christ-like people here on CAF… (some do not claim to be Catholic, though)…

i hope you are nott saying that all Catholics are bad or most of them are… and you are so glad you got away from all that when you became Protestant???

I have found protestants to be far more problematic in dealing with than Catholics… although i have to say, i’ve seen my share of unChristian behavior in both…

in any case, bad behavior on the part of Church members does not warrant leaving a Church - most partciualry when it is the True Church Christ instituted… and the RCC is…
 
distracted said:
which came first - the chiken or the egg?😃

Protestant or Catholic (your life)?

just wondering…

not sure waht poiint you are trying to make in this post…

yes, it is sad we Christians don’t get along… and yes there are rude, un-Christ-like people here on CAF… (some do not claim to be Catholic, though)…

i hope you are nott saying that all Catholics are bad or most of them are… and you are so glad you got away from all that when you became Protestant???

I have found protestants to be far more problematic in dealing with than Catholics… although i have to say, i’ve seen my share of unChristian behavior in both…

in any case, bad behavior on the part of Church members does not warrant leaving a Church - most partciualry when it is the True Church Christ instituted… and the RCC is…
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I will answer your question honestly. When I look back on my years as a member of the RCC, I honestly feel I was a Protestant in Catholic clothing. I NEVER remember believing some of the fundamental teachings of the church. I am NOT for one minute meaning that I did not believe in God in the Trinity, what Jesus did for us on Calvary etc. etc.etc.
Why are you being so defensive and jumping to the question of am I saying all catholics are bad… I did not say that. Some leave much to be desired but some Protestants are not peaches either!
I would not say I am "glad"to be away from the Catholic church but I will say I am happy to be where I am now. One does NOT have to mean the other.After all, the important fundamental beliefs are the same so in that sense much of what I believe today I learned in the RCC. Changing denominations is not like taking off a piece of clothing the RCC is still and always will be part of who and what I am today. My years as a monk again have shapped the person I am today. People in our church have commented on that fact many times in a very positive way.
You are indeed correct in saying there is much un-christan behaviour in both groups.
Who said I left the catholic church because of bad behaviour on anyone’s part. How do you jump to such conclusions. Please give me more credit than that. I was living a lie when I sat in the pew of a catholic church and did not believe MANY of it’s fundamental teachings. I believe I would have been judged more severely for that than being a member of a CHRISTAN church called by another name. After all is said and done, belief in the risen Lord and having lived by HIS rules and having asked forgiveness for one’s sins with a sincere resolve not to sin again and accept HIS grace through the sacrements is what will get one into heaven.NLM
 
nlm said:
I I was living a lie when I sat in the pew of a catholic church and did not believe MANY of it’s fundamental teachings.
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such as???
I believe I would have been judged more severely for that than being a member of a CHRISTAN church called by another name.
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**
Christ established only ONE Church on EArth**…

all othrs are man-made…

If you read the history of the Christian church you will know this … you will see that the Eucharist, for example, was practiced way back in the beginning and etc… etc…
After all is said and done, belief in the risen Lord and having lived by HIS rules and having asked forgiveness for one’s sins with a sincere resolve not to sin again and accept HIS grace through the sacrements is what will get one into heaven.NLM
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maybe, maybe not… Who says? You?? You are fallible, as i am sure you know…

you have said correctly what the basics of Christianity are… but if Jesus wanted us to just go by the basics… (so called) Why did he bother establishing a huge, world-wide Church, visible to all, a City on a Hill…

he established one Church and wants ALL to be in it… imperfect, fallible, rotten sinners though it may be full of… (not MAY be… IS) :rolleyes:

I’ve felt like leaving several times… over people… :rolleyes: …how stupid and unChristian they act… but i will never leave Jesus’ Church over mere humans or any other reason (so called)… I never overcame sin, to speak of, until i entered the Roman Catholic Church (revert)…

there is power over sin and satan There that can be found nowhere else…

***“I will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it” *** (Jesus: St Mt 16:18)

:highprayer::knight2::highprayer:
 
distracted said:
such as???
**
Christ established only ONE Church on EArth**…

all othrs are man-made…

If you read the history of the Christian church you will know this … you will see that the Eucharist, for example, was practiced way back in the beginning and etc… etc…

maybe, maybe not… Who says? You?? You are fallible, as i am sure you know…

you have said correctly what the basics of Christianity are… but if Jesus wanted us to just go by the basics… (so called) Why did he bother establishing a huge, world-wide Church, visible to all, a City on a Hill…

he established one Church and wants ALL to be in it… imperfect, fallible, rotten sinners though it may be full of… (not MAY be… IS) :rolleyes:

I’ve felt like leaving several times… over people… :rolleyes: …how stupid and unChristian they act… but i will never leave Jesus’ Church over mere humans or any other reason (so called)… I never overcame sin, to speak of, until i entered the Roman Catholic Church (revert)…

there is power over sin and satan There that can be found nowhere else…

***“I will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it” *** (Jesus: St Mt 16:18)

:highprayer::knight2::highprayer:
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First of all, YES I AM like ALL other humans on this planet…FALLIBLE. Like it or not that is the human condition.
I have NOT left Jesus Christ. I can aaure you our church is full of sinners as well.After all, Jesus Himself tells us in HIS word that it is the sick who need the doctor. I would never leave a church because of people either and as I explained earlier that was not the case when I did leave.
If I did expand on the teachings I could not accept on this forum, as I have done on a few occasions, I will be pelted with sarcasm and un-christian comments. This is unfortunate as I am being honest and trying to dialogue…NOT FIGHT.
For some reason, I seem to be seeing that the way a FORMER Catholic is treated on this forum is far worse than the way a Protestant who never was a Catholic is treated.Being fallible, I may be wrong in that but I don’t think so.NLM
 
nlm said:
First of all, YES I AM like ALL other humans on this planet…FALLIBLE. Like it or not that is the human condition.
I have NOT left Jesus Christ. I can aaure you our church is full of sinners as well.After all, Jesus Himself tells us in HIS word that it is the sick who need the doctor. I would never leave a church because of people either and as I explained earlier that was not the case when I did leave.
If I did expand on the teachings I could not accept on this forum, as I have done on a few occasions, I will be pelted with sarcasm and un-christian comments. This is unfortunate as I am being honest and trying to dialogue…NOT FIGHT.
For some reason, I seem to be seeing that the way a FORMER Catholic is treated on this forum is far worse than the way a Protestant who never was a Catholic is treated.Being fallible, I may be wrong in that but I don’t think so.NLM
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NLM, forgive me for “butting in” but where may not have, as you say, left Jesus Christ, you clearly have left the Church that He founded.

Background ~ I was a Protestant years ago (Episcopalian) now Catholic.

Jesus founded a Church. Not a bunch of churches. When we talk about the “Body of Christ” as you well know we are not just talking about Jesus, we are also talking about the Church He founded. Jesus never indicated that His Church, His Body, should be carved up into multiple pieces.

For some reason, you have chosen to leave the church founded by Jesus in favor of some Protestant denomination founded by a man. (I don’t need to know the denomination since they were all founded by men.) With all due respect, in general, the only Catholic that leaves the faith is someone who never understood the faith. I don’t mean that as a criticism, just an observation. When you are part of the faith founded by Jesus Himself, if you truly understood it, why would anyone ever leave?

I am sorry if you have felt attacked by various members of the forum Perhaps that is the way of things (not that it’s right, just that it’s how it goes.) People that truly understand the Catholic faith may have trouble understanding why someone would leave the faith. I don’t say that to excuse bad behavior, it’s just that when someone has the fullness of truth, it is hard to understand why someone would leave for something less, something lacking in Apostolic Succession, something lacking in the Sacraments, which is the situation in any Protestant sect.
 
distracted said:
Jesus would not have established a Church (visible, a City on a Hill)… if he didn’t desire that eveyrone be in it…

again, there are things in the RCC that other churches don’t have… non Catholics are missing out… big time…

you do not have ALL of Christ if you do not have His Church… that is just simple logic…

and explains why Protestants, according to reliable sources (saints) spend more time in Purg after death than Catholics…
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I would kindly disagree with much of what you are saying. When Jesus orders the disciples to be light and salt as He is He is clearly not talking about a denomination of a church but clearly to those who are truly born again of the Spirit of God. Those who are born of the Spirit will be obedient and like salt on the earth. If they have gone from us, they were never of us.

what are other churches missing out on? what is the Christian life about?

Christ’s church is very important and we love His church, but show me a spot in the Bible that He is speaking of 1 true physical church that will be clearly seen? It is clear Jesus’ church is scattered throughout the world although I think some denominations have a more biblical understanding.

why do people go to purgatory again? (I honestly don’t know the purpose of it)
 
MelanieAnne said:
NLM, forgive me for “butting in” but where may not have, as you say, left Jesus Christ, you clearly have left the Church that He founded.

Background ~ I was a Protestant years ago (Episcopalian) now Catholic.

Jesus founded a Church. Not a bunch of churches. When we talk about the “Body of Christ” as you well know we are not just talking about Jesus, we are also talking about the Church He founded. Jesus never indicated that His Church, His Body, should be carved up into multiple pieces.

For some reason, you have chosen to leave the church founded by Jesus in favor of some Protestant denomination founded by a man. (I don’t need to know the denomination since they were all founded by men.) With all due respect, in general, the only Catholic that leaves the faith is someone who never understood the faith. I don’t mean that as a criticism, just an observation. When you are part of the faith founded by Jesus Himself, if you truly understood it, why would anyone ever leave?

I am sorry if you have felt attacked by various members of the forum Perhaps that is the way of things (not that it’s right, just that it’s how it goes.) People that truly understand the Catholic faith may have trouble understanding why someone would leave the faith. I don’t say that to excuse bad behavior, it’s just that when someone has the fullness of truth, it is hard to understand why someone would leave for something less, something lacking in Apostolic Succession, something lacking in the Sacraments, which is the situation in any Protestant sect.
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You are NOT butting at all. You are an example of someone who wants to dialogue. I have to say I have encountered a few others on this forum like yourself. I respect your observations except one.Rather than say I have left for somthing less I would rather say I have left for something different, but no less true. Yes, we have no Apostolic Succession but is that really so important when dealing with salvation? I DO NOT mean any disrespect when I ask that question. You have touched on one of the teachings I could not accept. In our denomination we have two sacrements, Baptism and the Lord’s Supper. As I read your comments, I guess it all boils down to not accepting choices others have made for whatever reason nor agreeing with them but RESPECTING the choices as I feel you have done in my case.Thank you for that. Your Brother in Christ,NLM
 
nlm said:
First of all, YES I AM like ALL other humans on this planet…FALLIBLE. Like it or not that is the human condition.
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If you are a Bible-believer, nlm, then you believe some humans (i.e. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, Peter, Paul, Moses, etc etc etc) were infallbile at some point in their lives, yes?

And, you must believe that some other early Christians were infallible at some point in their lives when they decided what books were inspired and what books were not, yes? Unless, of course, you think the canon of Scripture is wrong and that, say, the Gospel of Thomas belongs in the Bible and, say, Philemon does not???
 
PRmerger said:
If you are a Bible-believer, nlm, then you believe some humans (i.e. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, Peter, Paul, Moses, etc etc etc) were infallbile at some point in their lives, yes?

And, you must believe that some other early Christians were infallible at some point in their lives when they decided what books were inspired and what books were not, yes? Unless, of course, you think the canon of Scripture is wrong and that, say, the Gospel of Thomas belongs in the Bible and, say, Philemon does not???
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My statement was referring to humans today. Of course I believe that the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. NLM
 
nlm said:
You are NOT butting at all. You are an example of someone who wants to dialogue. I have to say I have encountered a few others on this forum like yourself. I respect your observations except one.Rather than say I have left for somthing less I would rather say I have left for something different, but no less true. Yes, we have no Apostolic Succession but is that really so important when dealing with salvation? I DO NOT mean any disrespect when I ask that question. You have touched on one of the teachings I could not accept. In our denomination we have two sacrements, Baptism and the Lord’s Supper. As I read your comments, I guess it all boils down to not accepting choices others have made for whatever reason nor agreeing with them but RESPECTING the choices as I feel you have done in my case.Thank you for that. Your Brother in Christ,NLM
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Hi NLM,

With all due respect you did lose many things by leaving the Catholic faith. You gave up Apostolic Succession, as you noted, you also gave up most of the Sacraments (since there are far more than 2) and there is no one in your clergy that has valid authority to celebrate the Eucharist as ordained by Jesus at the Last Supper. No priest = no Eucharist. Without valid authority, the Baptisms and Eucharists celebrated lose much of their meaning.

But yes you’re right, we should all respect the choices of others, even if we disagree with them.
 
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