do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

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nlm said:
My statement was referring to humans today. Of course I believe that the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. NLM
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You admit that the Bible was inspired…but, just so we’re clear, I want to know if you believe that humans were infallible at some point in history.

That is, you do believe that it’s possible for a human being to be infallible, right? And this happened in history multiple times–when the Scriptures were written and when the Bible was canonized, right?
 
Well, if ONLY Catholics can go to Heaven, then think of the holy people who cannot be there: Mary, the mother of Jesus, St. Joseph, his foster-father, and the savior himself, all of whom were Jewish. I believe that in Heaven, there is no religion. It is no longer necessary in Heaven, because the saved are face-to-face with God.

Of course non-Catholics are in Heaven. If the Chosen People are not in Heaven, then what chance to we, the “adopted children” have of making it?
 
Sonny1954 said:
Well, if ONLY Catholics can go to Heaven, then think of the holy people who cannot be there: Mary, the mother of Jesus, St. Joseph, his foster-father, and the savior himself, all of whom were Jewish. I believe that in Heaven, there is no religion. It is no longer necessary in Heaven, because the saved are face-to-face with God.

Of course non-Catholics are in Heaven. If the Chosen People are not in Heaven, then what chance to we, the “adopted children” have of making it?
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Are they Catholic in heaven?
 
MelanieAnne said:
Hi NLM,

With all due respect you did lose many things by leaving the Catholic faith. You gave up Apostolic Succession, as you noted, you also gave up most of the Sacraments (since there are far more than 2) and there is no one in your clergy that has valid authority to celebrate the Eucharist as ordained by Jesus at the Last Supper. No priest = no Eucharist. Without valid authority, the Baptisms and Eucharists celebrated lose much of their meaning.

But yes you’re right, we should all respect the choices of others, even if we disagree with them.
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Again while respecting our differences, I must ask for an answer to my question about the importance of Apostolic Succession in salvation. Secondly, the "authority " to celebrate the Eucharist, in MY opinion comes from GOD and NOT from any wordly source. When a man or women consecrates his or her life to leading HIS people to heaven and BEFORE GOD accepts all the responsabilities which come with that vocation then he or she can indeed lead his or her people in the sharing of the Lord’s Supper. Again that is MY opinion and I respect what the RCC teaches.In all I have read in the Bible, I have always heard Jesus tell His disciples to do what He did in remembrance of Him. We are those disciples today.We are today’s followers of Jesus. Remember He said where two or three are gathered I am there. When we gather and share a meal WE call the Lord’s Supper you call the Eucharist and we all REMEMBER what He did for us by dying on the cross we ARE doing what He told us to do.Again, that is what I believe and I am NOT asking anyone else to believe it.NLM
 
nlm said:
Again while respecting our differences, I must ask for an answer to my question about the importance of Apostolic Succession in salvation. Secondly, the "authority " to celebrate the Eucharist, in MY opinion comes from GOD and NOT from any wordly source. When a man or women consecrates his or her life to leading HIS people to heaven and BEFORE GOD accepts all the responsabilities which come with that vocation then he or she can indeed lead his or her people in the sharing of the Lord’s Supper. Again that is MY opinion and I respect what the RCC teaches.In all I have read in the Bible, I have always heard Jesus tell His disciples to do what He did in remembrance of Him. We are those disciples today.We are today’s followers of Jesus. Remember He said where two or three are gathered I am there. When we gather and share a meal WE call the Lord’s Supper you call the Eucharist and we all REMEMBER what He did for us by dying on the cross we ARE doing what He told us to do.Again, that is what I believe and I am NOT asking anyone else to believe it.NLM
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You’re right, the authority for the Eucharist comes from God. Jesus gave it to His Disciples, who in turn passed it down to others, who have continued to pass it down to the Priests that celebrate the Eucharist today. Without Apostolic Succession the authority does not come from God, it comes from people.

No Apostolic Succession = No Priesthood = No Valid Eucharist.
 
nlm said:
First of all, YES I AM like ALL other humans on this planet…FALLIBLE. Like it or not that is the human condition.
I have NOT left Jesus Christ. I can aaure you our church is full of sinners as well.After all, Jesus Himself tells us in HIS word that it is the sick who need the doctor. I would never leave a church because of people either and as I explained earlier that was not the case when I did leave.
If I did expand on the teachings I could not accept on this forum, as I have done on a few occasions, I will be pelted with sarcasm and un-christian comments. This is unfortunate as I am being honest and trying to dialogue…NOT FIGHT.
For some reason, I seem to be seeing that the way a FORMER Catholic is treated on this forum is far worse than the way a Protestant who never was a Catholic is treated.Being fallible, I may be wrong in that but I don’t think so.NLM
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i totally agree with that last paragraph… I’ve noticed that too… There is a LOT of “uncharity” here… have no idea why but there is a lot of that in the world generally… and since the world is tyring to take over / destroy the Church i guess its not all that surprising that the poison from the wolrd would creep into Church…
(plus there’s just plain old ugly Human nature to blame)…
:rolleyes:

anyway, i don’t consider myself “rude” until / unless someone else is extremely rude to me… and even then, i am not “rude” in kind… not hardly… my comments in response to rudenees are Charity itself comparatively speaking…

anyhow… you can PM me if you want… but i would really like to know what you don’t agree w/ about the Church’s teachings…

The only thing i sometimes wonder about is… such things as why most Churches don’t have Adoration - either More often or At all…??

I used to wonder why women couldn’t become priests … but over the years i just began to see why… Long story… Men can’t be mothers either… 😃

i think women are too easily deceived to be priests… (I am a woman myself…). Eve was deceived… Adam deliberately disobeyed… You can argue which is worse… all day long, but the bottom line is that Jesus chose 12 men… (True, if he had chosen a woman as Apostle, they woiuld crucified Him sooner… )

anyway… there was something else i still “wonder about” concerning Chruch teachings but it must not be too important or i’ d remember it…

in any case, i wouldn’t jump all over you if you told me what you don’t agree with …

(I may FEEL like it… 😃 but you can’t hold THAT againt me, can you??)

just kidding… I probably won’t even feel like it…
 
zrs6v4 said:
I

what are other churches missing out on? what is the Christian life about?
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you virtually have to be Catholic to know…
Christ’s church is very important and we love His church, but show me a spot in the Bible that He is speaking of 1 true physical church that will be clearly seen? It is clear Jesus’ church is scattered throughout the world although I think some denominations have a more biblical understanding.
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He says he will build his Church (Mt 16:18)… In Tim it speaks of how the Church is the pillar of truth… Nowadays people ask: Which church??? A lot of ppl don’t even know where to look for the “original” church… but it is right where it has virtually always been - Rome… and now, all over the world as well… thanks to martin Luther everyone not Ctholic is in some degree of confusion or anorther…
why do people go to purgatory again? (I honestly don’t know the purpose of it)
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what religion are you??

only Christians go to Purgatory… a place where the effects of forgiven sin are washed away… (1 Cor 3:13, St Mt 18:23 *… St Mt 12:32 [forgivenness in the age to come])

Rev 21: 27 says that no impure thing will be allowed into Heaven. If anything impure were allowed in, it would not be heaven anymore…

“Be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect” (St Mt 5:48)*
 
nlm said:
Again while respecting our differences, I must ask for an answer to my question about the importance of Apostolic Succession in salvation. Secondly, the "authority " to celebrate the Eucharist, in MY opinion comes from GOD and NOT from any wordly source. When a man or women consecrates his or her life to leading HIS people to heaven and BEFORE GOD accepts all the responsabilities which come with that vocation then he or she can indeed lead his or her people in the sharing of the Lord’s Supper. Again that is MY opinion and I respect what the RCC teaches.In all I have read in the Bible, I have always heard Jesus tell His disciples to do what He did in remembrance of Him. We are those disciples today.We are today’s followers of Jesus. Remember He said where two or three are gathered I am there. When we gather and share a meal WE call the Lord’s Supper you call the Eucharist and we all REMEMBER what He did for us by dying on the cross we ARE doing what He told us to do.Again, that is what I believe and I am NOT asking anyone else to believe it.NLM
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Nim you are so right and I agree with you on most things and hopefully never ge rude. I am a cradle Catholic who went away for awhile and learned a lot while I was in a Protestant Church. I have since returned to my Childhood Catholic but I have to admit I am still a little Protestant. I expect to be bashed for this as I have been on other posts. One thing I didn’t hear while a Protestant is so many bashes against the CC as I hear On these post against Protestants. In our community all the Chueches work togehter:thumbsup: And rest assured Many Protestants will be in heaven
 
nlm said:
Again while respecting our differences, I must ask for an answer to my question about the importance of Apostolic Succession in salvation.
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NLM, I am hoping for an answer to my question in post #121:

Do you believe that it’s possible for a human being to be infallible? And this happened in history multiple times–when the Scriptures were written and when the Bible was canonized, right?

I understand that these threads move quickly, but since you posted another thread without answering my question, I wanted to make sure my question wasn’t missed.
 
tweetymom said:
Nim you are so right and I agree with you on most things and hopefully never ge rude. I am a cradle Catholic who went away for awhile and learned a lot while I was in a Protestant Church. I have since returned to my Childhood Catholic but I have to admit I am still a little Protestant. I expect to be bashed for this as I have been on other posts. One thing I didn’t hear while a Protestant is so many bashes against the CC as I hear On these post against Protestants. In our community all the Chueches work togehter:thumbsup: And rest assured Many Protestants will be in heaven
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I find your honesty quite refreshing actually. You have walked the walk I am presntly walking so you do understand better than most. My experience is the same as yours was. I can HONESTLY say, in my 7 years as a Protestant I have NEVER heard the words Roman Catholic Church spoken from the pulpit, at meetings or even casually.Our Minister NEVER asked why I was making this change in my spiritual life and concentrated on the positive rather than try and dig up any negatives I may have concerning the RCC.As I have said so many times ( and yes this is MY opinion) I cannot for one second believe that God sent His son to die on the cross for the salvation of Roman Catholics ONLY. Yes indeed there will be Christ Followers of many denominations and those who will convert at the 11th hour having NEVER been a member of any denomination during their lifetime in heaven.Thank you for your response.NLM
 
PRmerger said:
You admit that the Bible was inspired…but, just so we’re clear, I want to know if you believe that humans were infallible at some point in history.

That is, you do believe that it’s possible for a human being to be infallible, right? And this happened in history multiple times–when the Scriptures were written and when the Bible was canonized, right?
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I will answer your question this way. Do I believe that the Evangelists and those who wrote the Bible were inspired to write what they did? Yes I do.
Let me cut to the chase. I purposely chose my words to avoid the issue of Papal infaillability when I said I did not think any human on the planet is infaillable. I did that to avoid having to speak of the Popes. Why? Out of respect for the RCC’s teachings.I can’t help but detect a tone in your thread of trying to “get me”.NLM
 
nlm said:
I will answer your question this way. Do I believe that the Evangelists and those who wrote the Bible were inspired to write what they did? Yes I do.
Let me cut to the chase. I purposely chose my words to avoid the issue of Papal infaillability when I said I did not think any human on the planet is infaillable. I did that to avoid having to speak of the Popes. Why? Out of respect for the RCC’s teachings.I can’t help but detect a tone in your thread of trying to “get me”.NLM
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Fair enough.

I was not trying to "get you’–only to point out the illogic of your comment that no human on the planet is infallible (including the Pope and Magisterium.), if you believe in the inerrancy of Scripture.

And one can see from your responses that the illogic of your comment has become evident to you. You, as a believer in Scripture, now ought to take pause whenever you claim that no human is infallible, for you recognize there were points in time that humans,(i.e the inspired writers of Scripture) were indeed infallible.

And, although you are silent on this, you must acknowledge that those who determined the canon of Scripture were also infallible at some point in history.

Finally, the conclusion comes that if the Holy Spirit was able to make fallible humans infallible at some point in history, the Holy Spirit can (and does!) make fallible humans infallible at some points in their writings today. Why shouldn’t you believe that the Pope and Magisterium were inspired to write what they have? 🤷
 
Although this business of infallibility is WAY OFF topic, let’s at least interject some facts
  • The Pope is not considered an infallible human being, he is only considered so in matters of faith, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit
  • This is perfectly consistent with the promise of Jesus to guide and protect the Church.
 
Again I ask - are they Catholic in heaven, or are they still protesting?🙂
 
MelanieAnne said:
Although this business of infallibility is WAY OFF topic, let’s at least interject some facts
  • The Pope is not considered an infallible human being, he is only considered so in matters of faith, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit
  • This is perfectly consistent with the promise of Jesus to guide and protect the Church.
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When Jesus said we would not be left orphans and we would be guided and protected, I believe He was telling us at that point He would be sending the Holy Spirit to look after us not the Pope. Remember that is my opinion and I respect what the RCC believes.NLM
 
nlm said:
When Jesus said we would not be left orphans and we would be guided and protected, I believe He was telling us at that point He would be sending the Holy Spirit to look after us not the Pope. Remember that is my opinion and I respect what the RCC believes.NLM
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NLM, the point I was trying to make is that people often think that Papal Infallibility means that the Pope is somehow a perfect person. He’s not, but he’s been given the grace to lead the Church without making doctrinal error. That’s not the same thing as being perfect. And that is why I believe that it is perfectly consistent with Jesus’ promise to protect the Church.
 
MelanieAnne said:
NLM, the point I was trying to make is that people often think that Papal Infallibility means that the Pope is somehow a perfect person. He’s not, but he’s been given the grace to lead the Church without making doctrinal error. That’s not the same thing as being perfect. And that is why I believe that it is perfectly consistent with Jesus’ promise to protect the Church.
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Melanie Anne. I understand the difference between infallibility and perfection. I am quite certain the Pope is not perfect more am I. I believe he is given the grace to lead the church but I can’t accept the second part of your statement," without making doctrinal error". As I have said many times before, I REALLY DO respect this RCC belief,I REALLY DO but am unable to believe it.Again as I have said before, I believe when Jesus promised to not leave us orphans He was speaking of sending the Holy Spirit to protect and guide us. Jesus kept His promise.NLM
 
nlm said:
I believe he is given the grace to lead the church but I can’t accept the second part of your statement," without making doctrinal error".
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I can respect that belief, nlm.

Would I be correct in stating that you do believe that the Holy Spirit *does *instruct and guide the pope–only not in any way different than he does to all other Christians? Is this a correct assessment of your belief?
 
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