do you have to be Catholic to get into Heaven??

[nlm]

I can respect that belief, nlm.

Would I be correct in stating that you do believe that the Holy Spirit *does *instruct and guide the pope–only not in any way different than he does to all other Christians? Is this a correct assessment of your belief?

Yes, you are correct. I also know the Pope has a vast number of knowledgable advisors within the many Bishops and the College of Cardinals. Popes have always been surrounded by a vast number of very learned men to help the him guide the RCC. The current Pope is an example of that very fact.They are all guided and instructed by the Holy Spirit.
To draw a parallel with our denomination.We do not have one person as “THE " head of our church but 3. For the first time ever a women was elected to one of those posts in the past year. The governance is looked after ,through the same instruction and guidance of the same Holy Spirit. Every 4 years a general conference is called.Representatives of all areas of the world gather to look at where we have been as a church and where God would have us go.
Now, having said all this, let me go back to your comment,”…not in any way different than he does to all Christians". Maybe not. I am only guessing here but it would make sense to me that if these “leaders” of various denominations are indeed chosen through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, then it would also make sense that they perhaps are given special or different guidance from that same Holy Spirit. That would make sense as I believe when we are called by God to a vocation regardless of what that is He also provides us with what is necessary to carry out that role. In the case of these leaders much would be expected and I would think much would be given in terms of grace ect.
One day we will know all this…actually it won’t matter anymore.NLM

 

[PRmerger]

I am only guessing here but it would make sense to me that if these “leaders” of various denominations are indeed chosen through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, then it would also make sense that they perhaps are given special or different guidance from that same Holy Spirit. That would make sense as I believe when we are called by God to a vocation regardless of what that is He also provides us with what is necessary to carry out that role. In the case of these leaders much would be expected and I would think much would be given in terms of grace ect.

I appreciate your honesty, nlm, in that you offer only your guesses. You are correct in that we won’t ever know for certain, until we see each other (hoping! and praying!) in heaven. (Although, I do believe that doctrine does matter and that we are called to love God with our hearts, MINDS, souls and strength…doctrine is the “MINDS” part).

However, I take issue with your comment that leaders of various denominations are all given guidance by the Holy Spirit. That simply cannot be true! How can the HS tell one denomination that women can be called to be priests and tell another denomination that women cannot even teach Scripture? How can the HS tell one denomination that the soul is immortal and tell another that it dies or goes to “soul sleep”? How can the HS tell one group of Christians that Saturday is the Lord’s Day and another that Sunday is?

There are now over 40.000 denominations, each claiming that the HS inspired them to come to their particular doctrines, each teaching contrary teachings.

 

[nlm]

I appreciate your honesty, nlm, in that you offer only your guesses. You are correct in that we won’t ever know for certain, until we see each other (hoping! and praying!) in heaven. (Although, I do believe that doctrine does matter and that we are called to love God with our hearts, MINDS, souls and strength…doctrine is the “MINDS” part).

However, I take issue with your comment that leaders of various denominations are all given guidance by the Holy Spirit. That simply cannot be true! How can the HS tell one denomination that women can be called to be priests and tell another denomination that women cannot even teach Scripture? How can the HS tell one denomination that the soul is immortal and tell another that it dies or goes to “soul sleep”? How can the HS tell one group of Christians that Saturday is the Lord’s Day and another that Sunday is?

There are now over 40.000 denominations, each claiming that the HS inspired them to come to their particular doctrines, each teaching contrary teachings.

I know little if anything about theology, but this is how I see it. Don’t foget that there is always one’s intepretation of what the HS has inspired. Church leaders may or may not listen to what the HS is saying. It becomes a matter of free will I guess. I think the HS’s message is always the same, what is different is the human element…the doing or saying or making decisions I want. I will admit I am not well versed in the beliefs of any church other than the RCC and my current church so I am lead to ask, what Christian church does not believe in the soul being immortal? Is the issue of what day is the Lord’s Day not a matter of interpretation? When I was growing up Sunday was the Lord’s Day in the RCC then Saturday was added.Is it not possible that issues such as women being ordained priests or ministers or women teaching scripture are simply decisions made by various churches?I will give you an example of what I am saying. The HS can inspire a young man to become a priest or enter the ministry. But if this young man, even if he knows he is being called decides otherwise, the HS did his job but free will took over. I would also say that there may be church leaders who may not be in tune with the HS or have private agendas.NLM

 

[PRmerger]

II think the HS’s message is always the same, what is different is the human element…the doing or saying or making decisions I want.

Indeed. The question then becomes *how do I know that what I **believe *Scripture is saying is truly the HS’s message?

If 2 sincere Bible-believing Christians each read the same Scripture prayerfully, each ask the HS to guide them to all truth and then one Christian (i.e. a Baptist) concludes that John’s Gospel says that the Eucharist is a symbol and another Christian (i.e. a Lutheran) concludes that it is NOT a symbol, how do we determine which doctrine is true?

What authority can they appeal to to decisively determine the Truth?

so I am lead to ask, what Christian church does not believe in the soul being immortal?

The Jehovah’s Witnesses. See here for a discussion with a JW defending his views with Scripture.

Is the issue of what day is the Lord’s Day not a matter of interpretation?

Indeed it is. And Christians have been divided and left the fold in disagreement over this issue. Tthey have read Scripture and determined that when one worships takes such primacy that they start their own church over this difference in doctrine.

 

[nlm]

Indeed. The question then becomes *how do I know that what I **believe ***Scripture is saying is truly the HS’s message?

If 2 sincere Bible-believing Christians each read the same Scripture prayerfully, each ask the HS to guide them to all truth and then one Christian (i.e. a Baptist) concludes that John’s Gospel says that the Eucharist is a symbol and another Christian (i.e. a Lutheran) concludes that it is NOT a symbol, how do we determine which doctrine is true?

What authority can they appeal to to decisively determine the Truth?

The Jehovah’s Witnesses. See here for a discussion with a JW defending his views with Scripture.

Indeed it is. And Christians have been divided and left the fold in disagreement over this issue. Tthey have read Scripture and determined that when one worships takes such primacy that they start their own church over this difference in doctrine.

The sad reality here is that we are only human. If we " prayerfully" ask for the HS’s guidance. If we avail ourselves of all the information we can and honestly deep within ourselves that the choice we are making is indeed the correct one then we are doing the best we can. Each one of us knows what that little voice deep down is telling us to do.I will use my own experience as an example.I decided to leave the RCC and God directed me to my current church ( I honestly believe He did ) . If I was wrestling with nagging doubts deep within today and if I was constantly questionning my decision and wondering if it was correct then I would be in a position to say I did not listen to the HS. But speaking for myself that is not the case. I know I am where God wants me to be. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind.I know that is difficult to understand if a person has not walked that walk but trust me I have.WE have to put our trustin the one who died to save us, which I have.NLM

 

[MelanieAnne]

The sad reality here is that we are only human. If we " prayerfully" ask for the HS’s guidance. If we avail ourselves of all the information we can and honestly deep within ourselves that the choice we are making is indeed the correct one then we are doing the best we can. Each one of us knows what that little voice deep down is telling us to do.I will use my own experience as an example.I decided to leave the RCC and God directed me to my current church ( I honestly believe He did ) . If I was wrestling with nagging doubts deep within today and if I was constantly questionning my decision and wondering if it was correct then I would be in a position to say I did not listen to the HS. But speaking for myself that is not the case. I know I am where God wants me to be. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind.I know that is difficult to understand if a person has not walked that walk but trust me I have.WE have to put our trustin the one who died to save us, which I have.NLM

You’re right NLM, and I’ve run into more than a few persons in my time that seemed to have Holy Spirits that were telling them just what they wanted to hear, if you know what I mean. But if you listen, truly listen and you follow that counsel, I think that’s the best you can do.

Having said that, the question posed is still valid. If there is only 1 Holy Spirit and 1 Truth, then there can be only one true message, and yet thousands of people purport to be inspired to do the things they do, found churches, proclaim doctrine, etc. Only one can be correct.

 

[lindalout49]

"if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

 

[PRmerger]

I know I am where God wants me to be. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind.I know that is difficult to understand if a person has not walked that walk but trust me I have.WE have to put our trustin the one who died to save us, which I have.NLM

Amen! No one will fault you for seeking first the kingdom of God and leaving the CC if that’s where you truly felt the HS was leading you…

However!! (And, I believe, it’s a* big* “however” )

You must acknowledge that the “little voice deep down” could be wrong. As you have correctly stated, all humans are* fallible *(although we both believe that the HS has inspired and guided a few individuals throughout history with the gift of infallibility to protect His Church). And “fallible”, by definition, means that you **will **be wrong about something that you believe the HS is telling you.

We all know of people who listened to the “little voice deep down” that told them to leave their spouse, despite the very clear message of Christ that the vows of marriage are inviolable. Women who choose to abort often feel that the “little voice deep down” is telling them that this is the right choice to make for them at this time in their lives. Congregants leave congregations over Scriptural disputes and start their own churches because the “little voice deep down” told them this is God’s will. Which it very clearly is not. (Eph 4:5, Matt 16:18)

An examination of anyone’s life will show quite clearly that that “little voice deep down” is so very often…fallible.

However, there is one Church that claims to be the infallible guardian and interpeter of God’s Word. As for me, I put my trust in that Church’s doctrine.

NLM, I mean in no way to dispute your certainty that you are where you are supposed to be. I only wish to provide you with some other thoughts for your consideration.

 

[Sonny1954]

I would think that God is rather more inclusive and loving than to make Heaven like those blue-nose country clubs of decades passed: people of certain religious affiliations (read: Jews and Catholics) not welcomed.

I don’t believe that religion exists in Heaven. Living in the presence of God would render them unnecessary, I suppose.

 

[tweetymom]

I would think that God is rather more inclusive and loving than to make Heaven like those blue-nose country clubs of decades passed: people of certain religious affiliations (read: Jews and Catholics) not welcomed.

I don’t believe that religion exists in Heaven. Living in the presence of God would render them unnecessary, I suppose.

I think you suppose right. And when we all get to heaven all this I’m right your wrong attitude isn’t going to matter we are all going to be one in Christ:thumbsup: God is not the author of confussion, I believe He wants us all to get along. And God is not blue nosed you are so right:thumbsup:

 

[PRmerger]

NLM, I mean in no way to dispute your certainty that you are where you are supposed to be. I only wish to provide you with some other thoughts for your consideration.

The thought occurred to me last night, after I posted this, that it would seem puzzling that God would truly be leading you away from the CC, from the Eucharist which is the most intimate joining of God and man.

It would be like your spouse leading you to sleep in another bedroom–why would she lead you further away from intimacy and the one flesh union?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I heard something on Catholic Answers Radio years ago concerning this…

I can’t remember who said it but he was a guest on the show and he said that all Christians will be Catholic before they get into Heaven. If the person is a protestant and dies in a state of grace, he will go to Purgatory and then will learn that the Roman Catholic Church was the One Church… founded by Christ and will then have to, in Purgatory… well, to paraphrase his words… he will have to become Catholic…

i totally belive this.

so why are we not working harder to make everyone Catholic??

Gabriel of 12;
Catholics can name many of those in heaven today and most of the Saints in heaven are Catholic. For those who partake of the divinity of Jesus (2Peter 1:4) in baptism, the first resurrection (Rev.20:6) and who already celebrate the wedding feast of the lamb on earth as it is in heaven (John 6:54) + ( (Rev.19) need not fear the second death;

Those who chose the world at the end; will receive nothingness and misery that comes with it, because of the disappearance of creation which brings judgement. When Jesus will seperate the sheep from the goats.

In between are those who have gain some knowledge of Jesus Christ or heard the gospel proclaimed, and have attempted to live the life of Christ yet also living in the life of the world. These lives that heard the gospel of Jesus Christ in the world will be judged from the opening of the books on judgement day; These are judged by how they lived the Lord’s own life; Matthew 25:31-46.

The Catholic church does not force anyone to enter into communion with our heavenly Father in heaven. But she is commanded to proclaim the gospel, teach, and feed God’s chosen in every age. Those that are not called of God into the Kingdom of God or of their own free wll refuse the body, blood, soul and divinty of Jesus Christ which promises eternal life leaves their eternal salvation to chance.

Because scripture confirms that the Catholic (universal) Church is the body of Jesus Christ, which is the virgin bride of Jesus Christ. Makes promise to those who are in the body of Jesus Christ are promised eternal life in Jesus Christ. Provided that her members work out their salvation with fear and trembling, by obeying and give witness/testimony of Jesus Christ.

I believe a correct understanding of the Church Jesus built upon Peter supports your radio commentary. If one believes Jesus did not build a Church upon the apostles and their successors, may take offense to the radio commentary as placing all others outside the body of Jesus Christ. NO one goes to the Father except (only) through Jesus Christ.

Peace be with you

 

[Bill_Pick]

if any non-Christian is saved, it is through Jesus Christ only and not the power of any other [non-existent] deities.

If any one thinks a denomination or Church can save you you are wrong we save our self

 

[lindalout49]

I would think that God is rather more inclusive and loving than to make Heaven like those blue-nose country clubs of decades passed: people of certain religious affiliations (read: Jews and Catholics) not welcomed.

I don’t believe that religion exists in Heaven. Living in the presence of God would render them unnecessary, I suppose.

You think like I do. And GEE, you say you are Catholic:thumbsup:

 

[Bill_Pick]

truth is for everyone

I have many protestants friend who read the catechisn,some just to argue with cathloics.

 

[lindalout49]

I have many protestants friend who read the catechisn,some just to argue with cathloics.

i certainly agree, truth is for everyone. their seem to be so many so called ‘truths’ out there though. but the REAL truth will set you free indeed.

 

[nlm]

You’re right NLM, and I’ve run into more than a few persons in my time that seemed to have Holy Spirits that were telling them just what they wanted to hear, if you know what I mean. But if you listen, truly listen and you follow that counsel, I think that’s the best you can do.

Having said that, the question posed is still valid. If there is only 1 Holy Spirit and 1 Truth, then there can be only one true message, and yet thousands of people purport to be inspired to do the things they do, found churches, proclaim doctrine, etc. Only one can be correct.

You are correct in making that observation. I believe that the basic message of the Holy Spirit is the same for all. How can it not. What then is diferent is, in MY opinion what people or groups of people or denominations do with that knowledge. The other things to look at is this, again in MY opinion. The way I look at salvation is this way. I MUST believe in certain things. Many churches teach these MUST believe things. After that, there are thigs being taught which are secondary in my opinion. They mad add to the journey, facilitate the journey but are not MUST haves for salvation. They are then what we see as the differences between denominations and various churches. The Holy Spirit may not be guiding these secondary things in MY opinion.The business of the Holy Spirit is salvation plain and simple. Mutch of what has been added to this very simple message really, are extras. I guess I look at the fact that many of these extras in many churches have come and gone over the years without changing the important message. New things are tried and added or changed all the time.Now having said all this I believe that one , after having accepted the important basics must also accept the extras taught within one’s church. If my mouth says yes I accept that teaching and that same little voice inside says I’ll never believe that and it’s not important to my salvation then I am living a lie.I am accountable for that.No one will ever say I am a man of few words! NLM

 

[tweetymom]

I have many protestants friend who read the catechisn,some just to argue with cathloics.

And most Catholics in this web site are happy to oblige them

 

[tweetymom]

You are correct in making that observation. I believe that the basic message of the Holy Spirit is the same for all. How can it not. What then is diferent is, in MY opinion what people or groups of people or denominations do with that knowledge. The other things to look at is this, again in MY opinion. The way I look at salvation is this way. I MUST believe in certain things. Many churches teach these MUST believe things. After that, there are thigs being taught which are secondary in my opinion. They mad add to the journey, facilitate the journey but are not MUST haves for salvation. They are then what we see as the differences between denominations and various churches. The Holy Spirit may not be guiding these secondary things in MY opinion.The business of the Holy Spirit is salvation plain and simple. Mutch of what has been added to this very simple message really, are extras. I guess I look at the fact that many of these extras in many churches have come and gone over the years without changing the important message. New things are tried and added or changed all the time.Now having said all this I believe that one , after having accepted the important basics must also accept the extras taught within one’s church. If my mouth says yes I accept that teaching and that same little voice inside says I’ll never believe that and it’s not important to my salvation then I am living a lie.I am accountable for that.No one will ever say I am a man of few words! NLM

But NIM you do tell it like it is I have had the same struggles that you have had. I know that I am saved and Jesus is very personal in my life, I just have a hard time to some of the stuff that I feel has been added. Now if everyone here is comfortable then cool. There are some of who do have struggles and will have until we meet Jesus.:tiphat: to you NIM

 

[guanophore]

The catechism is relevant to Catholics ONLY . All denominations have a similar document.

This is not true,nlm. If you were properly catechized as a Catholic, you would know that the Catholic catechism represents the teachings of the Apostles, while those of all denominations contain at least some of the Teachings of men. I don’t mean that in a critical way, I was not properly catechized as a Catholic either.

The BIBLE on the other hand is relevant to ALL Christians.

The Bible is a Catholic book, by, for, and about Catholics.

That my friend is THE source to live by.

No, nlm, you have been misled. The Bible was not formed until 382. What do you think Christians lived by prior to that? They lived as all Christians should, by the Source who is Christ. Don’t make an idol out of your bible!

Protestants DO accept Jesus with all their heart and soul and do what He says and yes we WILL go to heaven because what you have listed here as the way to heaven does not depend on the “label” a denomination nails on the front door of it’s building.

I agree that there are many Protestants that believe in Christ, and will get to heaven. I also agree that it does not depend on a “label”. However, your statement indicates a deficient understanding of Church.

**

nlm:
Were it not for His grace, which we did not deserve, we would all be in trouble.NLM**

You may be in more trouble than some,nlm, if you have knowingly and willingly rejected the Teachings of Christ.