Does Satan have our world under a strong spell?

[meltzerboy]

Satan rules over this world. It says so in the bible.

You can easily see it. Think of all this money we borrow from federal reserve.

We can easily tax them, and stop poverty.

There is a hierarchy upon this world. And the average citizen is at the bottom of the food chain.

These higher powers(people influenced by satan) like to force morals upon us to bring us further from God. They continually do so.

The more you play into the devils hands the more successful you probably will be on this earth. That’s part of the reason why God says not to envy the rich because the rich do have it harder in a spiritual sense.

God let’s him have dominion over the earth because he knows good will always come out of it, and the righteous will prevail.

Everything works in synchronicity.

Do you therefore believe that only (or mainly) the rich and powerful person is ruled by Satan and, conversely, the poor, average, hard-working citizen, because he is righteous, is not ruled by Satan? IOW, do you believe Satan is selective in his control?

 

[VincentChristop]

Do you therefore believe that only (or mainly) the rich and powerful person is ruled by Satan and, conversely, the poor, average, hard-working citizen, because he is righteous, is not ruled by Satan? IOW, do you believe Satan is selective in his control?

No Satan sends his spirits upon everyone everyday through the “unseen” world. Spirits can influence our thoughts and emotions. Stronger spirits can let things unfold, and you might see them as coincidence.

There’s much more than meets the eye.

The reason It seems like I Imply the rich is only because they are the ones more pronged to do his bidding vs the poor/average.

 

[tonyrey]

**Robert Sock**

​

No response!

 

[Robert_Sock]

You have not made a convincing case for Satan having a strong spell over our world…

We are called to believe in the Resurrection and share the joy of the Apostles when Jesus appeared to them. The early Christian martyrs rejoiced as they went to their deaths in the Colosseum. There is far more to following Jesus than following the Cross. It is introverted and unbalanced to focus on penance and mortification rather than works of charity and mercy. We should be less concerned about our own salvation than the physical and spiritual needs of others.

C.E.M.Joad, an English philosopher and atheist, became a Christian because he realised atrocities like the Holocaust cannot have a natural explanation.** There is diabolical evil in the world but the vast majority of people are not under
Satan’s spell**. Most of the needless misery and suffering in the world is caused by ignorance, laziness and selfishness rather than malice, callousness and deliberate cruelty. The words of Jesus on the Cross apply not only to His executioners but to most of us: “Forgive them, Father, for** they know not what they do**.”

So sorry for ignoring you.

If Satan is the ‘deceiver of the whole world,’ what’s so hard to believe that he has our world under a ‘strong spell?’ I have provided many quotes that suggests that Satan has our world under the ‘strong spell,’ but you write them off with a few keystrokes. How do you interpret the following?

Revelation 12:9 RSV
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world–he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Yes, the resurrection should fill Christians with a GREAT LOVE! But most people on the face of this earth do not believe, and have not seen. Are all these people within the diabolical spell of Satan?

We need to focus on our own salvation over that of others. Once we are on the road of Christ, then we can focus on the salvation of others. Please provide evidence to the contrary.

I guess it’s up to us to decide if we are going to extract pleasure out of this world or if we are going to follow in the Cross of Christ. How do you deal with all the quotes I provided that specifically state that we are to follow in the footsteps of Christ?

Apart from the cross there is no other ladder by which we may get to heaven.
-CCC

How do you interpret the above? It sounds explicit! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_abstraction Are you engaging in selective abstraction?

QUESTION: What is the difference between a liberal and a conservative? ANSWER: Nothing, they are one and the same!

LOVE!

 

[VincentChristop]

Satan adds pleasures and morals upon this earth.

He illuminates the morals that are completely opposed to God, and illuminates these morals to be seen as “good”.

This is his “ultimate spell”. Illumination. The light bringer. Deception at it’s finest.

Look at the morals we have in this day, and age. Look how much people judge each other due to different morals because of interpretation of the bible/religion.

GOD teaches NOT to judge, but to TEST.

And in this day and age a lot of people disregard this, and look down upon people.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Satan adds pleasures and morals upon this earth.

He illuminates the morals that are completely opposed to God, and illuminates these morals to be seen as “good”.

This is his “ultimate spell”. Illumination. The light bringer. Deception at it’s finest.

Look at the morals we have in this day, and age. Look how much people judge each other due to different morals because of interpretation of the bible/religion.

GOD teaches NOT to judge, but to TEST.

And in this day and age a lot of people disregard this, and look down upon people.

So, does Satan have the world under a strong ‘spell?’ Any arguments one way or the other?

LOVE!

 

[VincentChristop]

So, does Satan have the world under a strong ‘spell?’ Any arguments one way or the other?

LOVE!

Yes he does in a sense. There may also be magic in play people are not aware of, but that is unknown to the common man.

It’s like I said his spell is deceiving us to look at the morals forced on us in the brightest of light.

If your trying to ask in a magical sense. He does have certain magic going on behind the scenes we are not aware of. Did you know most farmer’s grow our produce not only from acknowledging the seasons, but also from taking notes of planetary alignments(aka astrology). You know that saying you are what you eat?

There are things that get imposed on us without us realizing it.

God can break all of these futile spells, but only if he wills it obviously.

 

[tonyrey]

So sorry for ignoring you.

No need to apologise, Robert. You have plenty - or too much - on your plate.

If Satan is the ‘deceiver of the whole world,’ what’s so hard to believe that he has our world under a ‘strong spell?’ I have provided many quotes that suggests that Satan has our world under the ‘strong spell,’ but you write them off with a few keystrokes. How do you interpret the following? Revelation 12:9 RSV
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world–he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Revelation is not a precise, historical account of events but a symbolic, apocalyptic allegory often used by those who claim the end of the world is nigh.

Yes, the resurrection should fill Christians with a GREAT LOVE! But most people on the face of this earth do not believe, and have not seen. Are all these people within the diabolical spell of Satan?

The vast majority of people in this world are not evil, are not atheists and have a religion.

We need to focus on our own salvation over that of others. Once we are on the road of Christ, then we can focus on the salvation of others. Please provide evidence to the contrary.

To focus on our own salvation over that of others is egoistic and reveals a false sense of values. It is by forgetting ourselves, thinking of others and helping them that we follow in the footsteps of Jesus:

If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

1 John 4:20-21

I guess it’s up to us to decide if we are going to extract pleasure out of this world or if we are going to follow in the Cross of Christ. How do you deal with all the quotes I provided that specifically state that we are to follow in the footsteps of Christ?Apart from the cross there is no other ladder by which we may get to heaven.
-CCC

A false dilemma.

How do you interpret the above? It sounds explicit! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_abstraction Are you engaging in selective abstraction?

That is precisely what you are doing by putting yourself **before **everyone else…

Joy and penance go hand in hand in any saintly life. No one who truly loves God is a miserable killjoy. Jesus brought Good News, not a pessimistic message of gloom and doom.

QUESTION: What is the difference between a liberal and a conservative? ANSWER: Nothing, they are one and the same!

Please explain what you mean in the context of this thread.

 

[Robert_Sock]

No need to apologise, Robert. You have plenty - or too much - on your plate.

Thanks.

Revelation is not a precise, historical account of events but a symbolic, apocalyptic allegory often used by those who claim the end of the world is nigh.

Why is Revelation included in the bible then? Seems a waste of time and energy, and just leads one to confusion.

Yes, Revelation is often a symbolic or apocalyptic allegory, but that is no reason to believe that each and every phase needs special interpretation. There is much in it that can be taken literally.

The vast majority of people in this world are not evil, are not atheists and have a religion.

I agree, but was merely pointing out the fact that most people are non-Christian, and therefore do not have insight into the Resurrection.

To focus on our own salvation over that of others is egoistic and reveals a false sense of values. It is by forgetting ourselves, thinking of others and helping them that we follow in the footsteps of Jesus:

How in this world are we to lead others to salvation given we have yet to be led by the Holy Spirit? Without the Holy Spirit, we cannot lead.

                1 John 4:20-21

I strongly agree with the quote, but I fail to see where it’s relevant given what I said.

A false dilemma.

How so?

That is precisely what you are doing by putting yourself **before **everyone else…
Joy and penance go hand in hand in any saintly life. No one who truly loves God is a miserable killjoy. Jesus brought Good News, not a pessimistic message of gloom and doom.

Again and again I have tried to point out that there is GREAT LOVE in the Cross! It’s anything but doom and gloom unless one has extreme spiritual ‘tunnel-vision.’

Please explain what you mean in the context of this thread.

It’s a part of the spell, like two actors in a play.

If history repeats itself, it will act like a ‘letter bomb’ where things get detonated by the Holy Spirit (I can most assure you that there is nothing like ‘experience,’ and that worldly knowledge is of no consolation)! I’ve often been accused of repeating myself here on CAF, but many of my threads really do nothing more than add an additional layer to the larger picture that I’m trying to paint.

 

[mikekle]

I think we all agree that Satan and the fallen angels are MUCH more intelligent than any human person, they know everything there is to know about, and do not need faith…for they know because they have seen and experienced it.

OK, so Satan and the demons are very intelligent, WHY would they be doing what they are (trying to draw as many people as possible away from God)? It seems to me they would know any of their efforts are futile…UNLESS, we are not privy to the complete picture…stay with me…I have a sneaky feeling Satan tries so hard in what he does for a good reason, The bible even makes it clear that not that many people will make it to Heaven, so what does this say about the ‘war’ between God and satan then?

If Satan managed to influence and draw many more people to follow him, or to stop following God, I think there would be some major implications here, it would mean Satan WAS able to influence more people than God was…THIS IS HUGE!!! I think it means more than we think too.

Think about it, if Satan is able to draw more people to follow him than God was able to do, this would basically mean, Satan held more sway over people than God did…right? I really dont see any other way of viewing this, but am unsure about what this means as far as the ‘big picture’ is concerned…will it make a difference in the end times…I dont know, but it does seem to suggest it will.

 

[Robert_Sock]

As soon as you shall yield yourself to God with all your heart, and seek nothing for your own will and pleasure, but place yourself without reserve at His disposal, you shall find yourself united to Him, and at peace. Nothing will afford you more joy and satisfaction than the perfect fulfilling of God’s will. Whoever, therefore, raises his intent to God with a pure heart, and disengages himself from all inordinate love or hatred of any creature, shall best be prepared to receive grace, and be worthy of the gift of devotion. For Our Lord bestows His blessings where He finds vessels empty to receive them. And the more completely a man renounces worldly things, and the more perfectly he dies to self by the conquest of self, the sooner will grace be given, the more richly will it be infused, and the nearer to God will it raise the heart set free from the world.
“The Imitation of Christ,” Book 4, Chapter 15

Kill your ‘self’ that you may experience God’s LOVE and escape from Satan’s spell!

 

[tonyrey]

As soon as you shall yield yourself to God with all your heart, and seek nothing for your own will and pleasure, but place yourself without reserve at His disposal, you shall find yourself united to Him, and at peace. Nothing will afford you more joy and satisfaction than the perfect fulfilling of God’s will. Whoever, therefore, raises his intent to God with a pure heart, and disengages himself from all inordinate love or hatred of any creature, shall best be prepared to receive grace, and be worthy of the gift of devotion. For Our Lord bestows His blessings where He finds vessels empty to receive them. And the more completely a man renounces worldly things, and the more perfectly he dies to self by the conquest of self, the sooner will grace be given, the more richly will it be infused, and the nearer to God will it raise the heart set free from the world.
“The Imitation of Christ,” Book 4, Chapter 15Kill your ‘self’ that you may experience God’s LOVE and escape from Satan’s spell!

You don’t renounce worldly things by shunning them but by using them to glorify God. The Internet is a worldly thing without which we would be incapable of presenting the teaching of Jesus to people throughout the world so swiftly, easily and economically.

 

[tonyrey]

I think we all agree that Satan and the fallen angels are MUCH more intelligent than any human person, they know everything there is to know about, and do not need faith…for they know because they have seen and experienced it.

OK, so Satan and the demons are very intelligent, WHY would they be doing what they are (trying to draw as many people as possible away from God)? It seems to me they would know any of their efforts are futile…UNLESS, we are not privy to the complete picture…stay with me…I have a sneaky feeling Satan tries so hard in what he does for a good reason, The bible even makes it clear that not that many people will make it to Heaven, so what does this say about the ‘war’ between God and satan then?

If Satan managed to influence and draw many more people to follow him, or to stop following God, I think there would be some major implications here, it would mean Satan WAS able to influence more people than God was…THIS IS HUGE!!! I think it means more than we think too.

Think about it, if Satan is able to draw more people to follow him than God was able to do, this would basically mean, Satan held more sway over people than God did…right? I really dont see any other way of viewing this, but am unsure about what this means as far as the ‘big picture’ is concerned…will it make a difference in the end times…I dont know, but it does seem to suggest it will.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the vast majority of men, women and children are so evil they are dominated by Satan.

 

[GaryTaylor]

As soon as you shall yield yourself to God with all your heart, and seek nothing for your own will and pleasure, but place yourself without reserve at His disposal, you shall find yourself united to Him, and at peace. Nothing will afford you more joy and satisfaction than the perfect fulfilling of God’s will. Whoever, therefore, raises his intent to God with a pure heart, and disengages himself from all inordinate love or hatred of any creature, shall best be prepared to receive grace, and be worthy of the gift of devotion. For Our Lord bestows His blessings where He finds vessels empty to receive them. And the more completely a man renounces worldly things, and the more perfectly he dies to self by the conquest of self, the sooner will grace be given, the more richly will it be infused, and the nearer to God will it raise the heart set free from the world.
“The Imitation of Christ,” Book 4, Chapter 15

Kill your ‘self’ that you may experience God’s LOVE and escape from Satan’s spell!

That doesn’t say that. Kill isn’t injected into the divinization and asceticism spoken of.

“and the more [perfectly he dies] to self by the conquest of self, the sooner will grace be given, the more richly will it be infused”

kill or renounce to die? Any difference? Perspective?

 

[Aloysium]

. . . Kill your ‘self’ that you may experience God’s LOVE and escape from Satan’s spell!

This sounds very eastern, possibly angry and frustrated.
One’s existence can be a tremendous, unwanted burden.
The way out, to me, seems to get into it: Christ on the cross.
How I interpret your comment, it sounds like it’s going in the wrong direction.

BTW, who would be doing the “killing” but the self, to meet its ends?
I do not see any “killing” involved doing God’s will.

Maybe it’s just semantics, mybe not.

 

[Robert_Sock]

There is no evidence whatsoever that the vast majority of men, women and children are so evil they are dominated by Satan.

Hi,

I would still like you to explain to us why the following passage must be interpreted symbolically or in apocalyptic allegory, and not be taken at face value? Other than going against your premise, what specifically suggests that it not be taken at face value?

Revelation 12:9 RSV
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world–he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

LOVE!

 

[Robert_Sock]

This sounds very eastern, possibly angry and frustrated.
One’s existence can be a tremendous, unwanted burden.
The way out, to me, seems to get into it: Christ on the cross.
How I interpret your comment, it sounds like it’s going in the wrong direction.

BTW, who would be doing the “killing” but the self, to meet its ends?
I do not see any “killing” involved doing God’s will.

Maybe it’s just semantics, mybe not.

If only we were completely dead to self, and free from inner conflict, we could savour spiritual things, and win experience of heavenly contemplation.
-The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 11

The Imitation of Christ (or De imitatione Christi), by Thomas à Kempis, is a widely read Christian spiritual book. It was first published anonymously, in Latin, ca. 1418; several other authors have been proposed, but Kempis’ authorship is now generally accepted.

Imitation of Christ is a writing of the mysticist German-Dutch school of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries and is widely considered one of the greatest manuals of devotion in Christianity. Protestants and Roman Catholics alike join in giving it praise. The Jesuits give it an official place among their “exercises”. John Wesley and John Newton listed it among the works that influenced them at their conversion. General Gordon carried it with him to the battlefield. It is said Pope John Paul I was reading a copy when he died.
–http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Imitation_of_Christ_(book)

God does the ‘killing,’ through our conscience. If we learn to listen and continuously yield to the conscience, the ‘self’ will die.

LOVE!

 

[davidv]

Hi,

I would still like you to explain to us why the following passage must be interpreted symbolically or in apocalyptic allegory, and not be taken at face value? Other than going against your premise, what specifically suggests that it not be taken at face value?
Revelation 12:9 RSV
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world–he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

LOVE!

There is nothing symoblical or allegorical or literal in this passage that indicates that satan’s being thrown down equals putting us under a spell. So it seems this passage has not one thing to do with your OP.

 

[Robert_Sock]

There is nothing symoblical or allegorical or literal in this passage that indicates that satan’s being thrown down equals putting us under a spell. So it seems this passage has not one thing to do with your OP.

You’re correct, and I concede that there’s nothing in the scriptures that directly says this, but it’s getting very close to suggesting it!

 

[davidv]

You’re correct, but it’s getting very close to suggesting it!

Not at all.