Does Satan have our world under a strong spell?

[tonyrey]

Your idea of a spell is directly contrary to this:

Irrefutable! If you are under a strong spell you cannot shape your own life.

 

[Robert_Sock]

It would also be best if you would not presume to know anyone’s motives.

I meant no harm, I promise! I was just going by a very popular psychodynamic paradigm that insists we all use defense mechanisms of one type or another. Given my training, I do this by habit. I too sometimes find myself using denial.

You not provided any credible evidence for the conclusion of your OP. All you have offered is question begging interpretations of cherry picked Scriptures.

It all boils down to what you mean by ‘credible evidence?’ I believe that my arguments, taken as a whole, are strongly supportive of the ‘strong spell’ theory.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Irrefutable! If you are under a strong spell you cannot shape your own life.

Whoever said that the ‘strong spell’ was absolute, governing 100% of all human situations? Such a view would indeed be absurd, and make me look like an idiot, but this is what you’re asserting.

LOVE!

 

[davidv]

I meant no harm, I promise! I was just going by a very popular psychodynamic paradigm that insists we all use defense mechanisms of one type or another. Given my training, I do this by habit. I too sometimes find myself using denial.

It all boils down to what you mean by ‘credible evidence?’

You could start by identifying clear Church teaching on the matter. Several posters have identified Church teachings which are contrary to your proposal.

I believe that my arguments, taken as a whole, are strongly supportive of the ‘strong spell’ theory.

Given the evidence against your arguments, I have to conclude that your belief on this matter is misplaced.

 

[Robert_Sock]

You could start by identifying clear Church teaching on the matter. Several posters have identified Church teachings which are contrary to your proposal.

Sorry, but I’m not inclined to search for any more evidence to support my assertions.

Given the evidence against your arguments, I have to conclude that your belief on this matter is misplaced.

Likewise! But thanks for sharing.

 

[Holly3278]

I definitely believe that Satan has our world under a strong spell. What else could explain the huge of mess of sin such as abortion, pornography, “gay marriage”, etc etc etc in our world?

 

[davidv]

I definitely believe that Satan has our world under a strong spell. What else could explain the huge of mess of sin such as abortion, pornography, “gay marriage”, etc etc etc in our world?

No spell is required. The human who is unwilling to develop self mastery and have made themselves their own god, will succumb to their own passions without any help from Satan.

 

[Robert_Sock]

No spell is required. The human who is unwilling to develop self mastery and have made themselves their own god, will succumb to their own passions without any help from Satan.

Why would God allow Satan to torment us if it was not necessary.

People are far under estimating the power of Satan, which is part of why we are under his ‘spell.’

This world is not only physical — so that the truth of G d’s creative power is not in evidence; it is also gross, in that the lie is held up as a truth.
m.chabad.org/dailystudy/tanya.asp?tdate=3/9/2014

[This world] is the lowest in degree; there is none lower than it in terms of concealment of His light and no world compares with it for doubled and redoubled darkness; nowhere is G d’s light hidden as in this world.
m.chabad.org/dailystudy/tanya.asp?tdate=3/9/2014

LOVE!

 

[tonyrey]

No spell is required. The human who is unwilling to develop self mastery and have made themselves their own god, will succumb to their own passions without any help from Satan.

To blame Satan for our weakness is a temptation but it doesn’t let us off the hook.

 

[tonyrey]

Whoever said that the ‘strong spell’ was absolute, governing 100% of all human situations? Such a view would indeed be absurd, and make me look like an idiot, but this is what you’re asserting.

It is not my intention to belittle you but to discover the precise meaning of “strong”. What would be the approximate percentage you have in mind? How much does it vary from one person to another?

 

[davidv]

Why would God allow Satan to torment us if it was not necessary.

What does this have to do with being under a spell?

People are far under estimating the power of Satan, which is part of why we are under his ‘spell.’

Is Satan’s power greater than God’s? If not, we do not have be under his control.

This world is not only physical — so that the truth of G d’s creative power is not in evidence; it is also gross, in that the lie is held up as a truth.
m.chabad.org/dailystudy/tanya.asp?tdate=3/9/2014

When does a lie become a spell?

[This world] is the lowest in degree; there is none lower than it in terms of concealment of His light and no world compares with it for doubled and redoubled darkness; nowhere is G d’s light hidden as in this world.
m.chabad.org/dailystudy/tanya.asp?tdate=3/9/2014

Relevance?
LOVE!

 

[Robert_Sock]

It is not my intention to belittle you but to discover the precise meaning of “strong”. What would be the approximate percentage you have in mind? How much does it vary from one person to another?

Thanks for your response!

I do not have any percentages in mind, and I believe they are next to impossible to calculate, but I do believe free will exists and that God tests us based on it. For example, illicit sex: for one person within a specific situation may be elicited completely on impulse (a ‘strong spell’) where culpability is nearly completely eliminated, but for another individual, there may be a genuine struggle between the id and superego where free will abounds. Moreover, a person who commits an evil act under a spell, may be given a genuine chance to repent at some future point, an act of free will.

I also contend that the ‘spell’ gives perceived life to a larger fantasy that we are all engaged in. Again, to view liberalism and conservatism as being in constant struggle against each other denotes a spell, whereas in reality they both give arise to a common fantasy where they both work in conjecture with each other, and are largely one and the same. I do believe that the majority of major politicians are aware of the fantasy, and behave as ‘actors’ in the same play.

LOVE!

 

[davidv]

Thanks for your response!

I do not have any percentages in mind, and I believe they are next to impossible to calculate, but I do believe free will exists and that God tests us based on it. For example, illicit sex: for one person within a specific situation may be elicited completely on impulse (a ‘strong spell’) where culpability is nearly completely eliminated, but for another individual, there may be a genuine struggle between the id and superego where free will abounds. Moreover, a person who commits an evil act under a spell, may be given a genuine chance to repent at some future point, an act of free will.

Does this mean that if you commit a sin without being under a spell you won’t be able to repent?

I also contend that the ‘spell’ gives perceived life to a larger fantasy that we are all engaged in. Again, to view liberalism and conservatism as being in constant struggle against each other denotes a spell, whereas in reality they both give arise to a common fantasy where they both work in conjecture with each other, and are largely one and the same. I do believe that the majority of major politicians are aware of the fantasy, and behave as ‘actors’ in the same play.

LOVE!

Being under a spell and having free will sounds like a contradiction. Please explain how this can be.

 

[Robert_Sock]

What does this have to do with being under a spell?

Lies are necessary, but not sufficient for spells to abound. Again, I do not have an exact quote that proves we are under a spell, but I provide evidence that is consistent with it.

Is Satan’s power greater than God’s? If not, we do not have be under his control.

No, Satan’s power is severely limited, but God grants him permission to keep us under a spell.

When does a lie become a spell?

When they give life to the believability of the spell.

Relevance?

Again, not proof, but merely a necessary condition for us being under a spell where God’s light is hidden.

LOVE!

 

[Robert_Sock]

Does this mean that if you commit a sin without being under a spell you won’t be able to repent?

Of course not! Where in my post do you find me suggesting such nonsense?

Being under a spell and having free will sounds like a contradiction. Please explain how this can be.

They occur as relatively independent human situations. It would only be a contradiction if they were occurring at the same time, within the same event. We live in a world governed by time, which often acts to separate events.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I do not have any percentages in mind, and I believe they are next to impossible to calculate

Right, but it’s a good point which indicates variance in degree? And also variance in perception with boundaries?

 

[davidv]

Of course not! Where in my post do you find me suggesting such nonsense?

From your argument. If I am under a spell, then I cannot be held accountable for any evil I commit. Therefore I have no guilt (no sin) and I get to go to heaven because Jesus died and rose for me.

However, The Church teaches clearly, and St. Paul records in his letters, that all have sinned. Sins are deliberate acts, free of controlling spells.

They occur as relatively independent human situations. It would only be a contradiction if they were occurring at the same time, within the same event. We live in a world governed by time, which often acts to separate events.

Now this is nonsense. How do I know when I am not under the spell? You will have to do much better than this if you are going to convince us that Satan has us under his control.

 

[Bookcat]

The Devil is called the prince of this world (in the pejorative sense of the word) in Sacred Scripture. He is also cast out. Christ is victorious -the final manifestation of that victory will come at the end of the world.

Let us always remember as Scripture also says: He who is in us is greater then he who is in the world.

 

[Robert_Sock]

From your argument. If I am under a spell, then I cannot be held accountable for any evil I commit. Therefore I have no guilt (no sin) and I get to go to heaven because Jesus died and rose for me.

However, The Church teaches clearly, and St. Paul records in his letters, that all have sinned. Sins are deliberate acts, free of controlling spells.

Now this is nonsense. How do I know when I am not under the spell? You will have to do much better than this if you are going to convince us that Satan has us under his control.

See post 232.

 

[GaryTaylor]

See post 232.

What about 236…I see the Good News lived in the Sisters and Brothers in the religious orders. I think that variance in degree is important in that they walk in the light of love not fear. Just saying.

II. THE FORMATION OF CONSCIENCE

1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.

1784 The education of the conscience is a lifelong task. From the earliest years, it awakens the child to the knowledge and practice of the interior law recognized by conscience. [Prudent education teaches virtue; it prevents or cures fear] selfishness and pride, resentment arising from guilt, and feelings of complacency, born of human weakness and faults. The education of the conscience guarantees freedom and engenders peace of heart.

1785 In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a6.htm

Might be impossible to calculate, still we can see the living truth in the Sisters and so forth. “He who is in us is greater then he who is in the world.”

“We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church”