Does Satan have our world under a strong spell?

[tonyrey]

It is all around us; we are all tainted with original sin no?

The Catechism uses the words “wounded”, “subject to ignorance” and “weakened” rather than “tainted” which may reflect Luther’s view:

It is also taught among us that since the fall of Adam all men who are born according to the course of nature are conceived and born in sin. That is, all men are full of evil lust and inclinations from their mothers’ wombs and are unable by nature to have true fear of God and true faith in God. Moreover, this inborn sickness and hereditary sin is truly sin and condemns to the eternal wrath of God all those who are not born again through Baptism and the Holy Spirit.

In other words the unbaptised are necessarily damned.

The Church’s teaching is more reasonable:

Athough it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a **deprivation **of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted.

- CCC 405

It does not dominate us however.

“dominate” is the key word in the context of this thread because “under a strong spell” suggests we find it very difficult to escape in spite of all our efforts and the vast majority of us are doomed to go to hell.

The real problem is that the phrase is ambiguous. How strong is the spell?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Your thoughts suggests we live in a world of good versus evil, which is heresy since it implies two gods! No, we live in a world of good and evil.

I never said two gods. First time ever I have been accused of polytheism!

Are you by nature a hyperbolist?

 

[Robert_Sock]

I see that the world being under the spell of Satan to suggest that we live in a fantasy, but where free will is preserved. However, I also believe that our free will is often compromised by the trance-like state we endure, which lessen our culpability of sin in certain situation. I do not believe that any of us are hell bound because we are caught up in this spell, but that we will be judged by how often we freely chose good over evil from within the fantasy.

(QUESTION: What is the difference between the make-believe of children to that of adults? ANSWER: Children usually know that they are just pretending!)

Where do inner ‘voices’ originate? Are they contrived by good and evil spirit and contribute to whether we adhere to the fantasy or gain a gimps of reality? How does God communicate with us if not through our inner voices? Do we control our inner voices, or do our inner voices control us?

LOVE!

 

[GaryTaylor]

Where do inner ‘voices’ originate?

Your free will chooses what action to take. It is not God that made the person do it; nor is it Satan that made them do it. It is their free will, the decision having been made after having heard both sides of morality, good and evil. .

He has also written His Laws in our hearts! This truth is found in the Holy Bible, in both, the Old and the New Testament. God said:

“But this shall be the covenant that I will make (…) after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them; I will write it in their hearts; I will be their God, and they shall be my people.” [Jeremiah 31:33; Hebrews 8:10 & 10:16]

Not only has God placed His laws in your hearts, He has also made His dwelling within us. “Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you were bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body.” [1 Corinthians 6:19-20]

Therefore, how can we say that we do not know right from wrong? How can we say that God does not speak to us in our hearts? How can we say, “I did not know what I was doing?”

In the Gospel of Mark 4:14-20, the Parable of the Sower explains to us why it is that many do not hear the inner Voice of God that speaks within their hearts.

“The sower (God) sows the word. These are the ones on the path where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them. And these are the ones sown on rocky ground: when they hear the word, they immediately receive it with joy. But they have no root, and endure only for a while; then, when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away. And others are those sown among the thorns, these are the ones who hear the word but the cares of the world, and the lure of wealth, and the desire for other things come in and choke the word and it yields nothing. And these are the ones sown on the good soil: they hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirty and sixty and a hundred-fold.”

Or you can take the bait and pay the price, there are consequences to what we do. For example you remember the first time you committed a mortal sin? You didn’t know how the effects of what you were going to do would effect you, you never did this before, how could you? Just like in Genesis “Is was desirable” But the law was known, and they indeed in free-will made a choice. And they took the bait and paid the price.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I see that the world being under the spell of Satan to suggest that we live in a fantasy, but where free will is preserved. However, I also believe that our free will is often compromised by the trance-like state we endure, which lessen our culpability of sin in certain situation. I do not believe that any of us are hell bound because we are caught up in this spell, but that we will be judged by how often we freely chose good over evil from within the fantasy.

But you haven’t defined “spell” but I noticed you omitted “strong” to minimize I assume the transgression so to make you acceptable for Heaven while riddled with vice? The case would be “stronger” with strong still in place.

And you injected new terminology “fantasy” which takes this in another direction without consensus on the “strong spell” part.

How come God doesn’t have a role? Whats he do?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

How does God communicate with us if not through our inner voices? Do we control our inner voices, or do our inner voices control us?

LOVE!

The inner voice cannot be controlled. It can be ignored to our peril.

The inner voice controls us.

When we do right, we do it in the open.

When we do wrong, we look over our shoulder to see if anyone is watching.

Guilt always follows sin. That’s when you know you have knelt to Satan rather than to God.

For a time you can live with guilt.

Sooner or later it eats up your soul until you have to confess it and do your penance.

 

[GaryTaylor]

“I do not believe that any of us are hell bound because we are caught up in this spell”

Robert when you are part of the baptized community in particular the Catholic Church. Faith is not a blind or vague concept, it’s very well defined. Its the infused supernatural “virtue” that each of us received at the moment of Baptism. But this can be lost for the simple reason we have an obligation to preserve the virtue given by the Lord. The basis of our salvation is our Faith, we cannot please the Lord without Faith, its is absolutely necessary for our salvation. If Faith is taken from us we cannot be saved unless we regain our Faith.

Here…Spell=Vice which is a continued path of not cooperating with the Lords grace, thus a convoluted understanding of Faith which in effect is a lie.

You contend with vice by admitting you are in contrast with the Lords will. Satan feeds the issue, the Lord resolves the issue through Grace. And the grace is given through the Eucharist which enables vice to decrease and virtue to increase. The more you cooperate with the Lords will the clearer these issues become. For the Lord will indeed point out every single area that displeases Him. Often this becomes abundantly clear when you are not is a state of grace. You know what the area is because the law is written in your heart, and if your “communicating” with the Lord by prayer, he will point out the area for you.

 

[Robert_Sock]

But you haven’t defined “spell” but I noticed you omitted “strong” to minimize I assume the transgression so to make you acceptable for Heaven while riddled with vice? The case would be “stronger” with strong still in place.

And you injected new terminology “fantasy” which takes this in another direction without consensus on the “strong spell” part.

How come God doesn’t have a role? Whats he do?

I did define ‘spell’ in a prior post, and I defined it as a ‘grand illusion’ that is largely maintained by inducing trance-like states.

Leaving the word ‘strong’ out was entirely inadvertent, I promise you!

Yes, I’m introducing new terminology, but it follows along with what I have for a long time had in my mind. You’re free to ignore it, and I do not at all mind getting back to the topic of this thread.

LOVE!

 

[GaryTaylor]

Yes, I’m introducing new terminology

And a new understanding of the Absolute Kingdom of Jesus Christ.

What’s Gods role?

 

[Robert_Sock]

And a new understanding of the Absolute Kingdom of Jesus Christ.

The Kingdom of Christ has yet to arrive.

What’s Gods role?

Come on, Gary, He is the Creator. Nothing happens that is not within His will.

LOVE!

 

[GaryTaylor]

He is the Creator. Nothing happens that is not within His will.

So He willed

world being under the spell of Satan.

we live in a fantasy.

our free will compromised by the trance-like state .

that none of us are hell bound because we are caught up in this spell,.

we will be judged by how often we freely chose good over evil.

But…

world being under the spell of Satan.

our free will compromised by the trance-like state .

And

that none of us are hell bound because we are caught up in this spell,.

But you stated here…

I NEVER said that Satan’s spell is stronger than God’s grace, and again, I do not consider good and evil to be at odds with each other; both are at constant work within our world…

I’m uncertain how you quantify all this? Sounds like God is a participant in Satan’s plan, and who will be serving Satan in hell, or is that reserved for yet to be defined special case’s? So what about the apostolic teaching of reprobate?

Peace

 

[Robert_Sock]

So He willed

But…

And

But you stated here…

I’m uncertain how you quantify all this? Sounds like God is a participant in Satan’s plan, and who will be serving Satan in hell, or is that reserved for yet to be defined special case’s? So what about the apostolic teaching of reprobate?

Peace

No, God is not a participant in Satan’s plan, but God willed that Satan serve Him in carrying out His own plan. Those of us that choose ‘good’ will be saved, and those who choose ‘evil’ will be condemned.

LOVE!

 

[GaryTaylor]

those who choose ‘evil’ will be condemned.

To where?

that none of us are hell bound because we are caught up in this spell,

I’m not sure how the fantasy proceeds at this point.

 

[Robert_Sock]

To where?
To hell.

I’m not sure how the fantasy proceeds at this point.

Are you sure you really want to get involved in the ‘fantasy?’ A few posts ago I thought you wanted to get back to the ‘strong spell?’

Anyway, just look at the culture you’re in; SSA and gay marriages, abortions, porn, sexual promiscuity etc. What causes these things? One explanation involves our viewing it as a part of a larger fantasy that is being projected upon the secular society. It’s demonic!

Do good where ever you can, pray and watch it all unfold.

LOVE!

 

[davidv]

Are you sure you really want to get involved in the ‘fantasy?’ A few posts ago I thought you wanted to get back to the ‘strong spell?’

Anyway, just look at the culture you’re in; SSA and gay marriages, abortions, porn, sexual promiscuity etc. What causes these things? One explanation involves our viewing it as a part of a larger fantasy that is being projected upon the secular society. It’s demonic!

Do good where ever you can, pray and watch it all unfold.

LOVE!

What causes these is human choices to disobey the will of God. Not all who commit these sins do so because of Satan’s temptation. Many succumb to the lust that comes from within.

None of this is fantasy. It is very real and damages individuals and society. Until this reality is recognized, sinners will blame their failures on others instead of themselves.

 

[Robert_Sock]

What causes these is human choices to disobey the will of God. Not all who commit these sins do so because of Satan’s temptation. Many succumb to the lust that comes from within.

None of this is fantasy. It is very real and damages individuals and society. Until this reality is recognized, sinners will blame their failures on others instead of themselves.

I might add that many ‘sins’ may not carry with them moral culpability, dependent upon what the antecedents to the sins were.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Anyway, just look at the culture you’re in; SSA and gay marriages, abortions, porn, sexual promiscuity etc. What causes these things? One explanation involves our viewing it as a part of a larger fantasy that is being projected upon the secular society. It’s demonic!

Do good where ever you can, pray and watch it all unfold.

LOVE!

But…

that none of us are hell bound because we are caught up in this spell,.

So how are Christians different from the above? They are under a "strong spell " TOO.

 

[davidv]

Yes, I too strongly feel that many ‘sins’ may not carry with them moral culpability.

Where in my post did I lead you to conclude that there was not culpability? Quite the opposite, no matter how strong the influence we have the grace available to resist them.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Where in my post did I lead you to conclude that there was not culpability? Quite the opposite, no matter how strong the influence we have the grace available to resist them.

I had corrected that. Re-read the post.

 

[Robert_Sock]

But…

So how are Christians different from the above? They are under a "strong spell " TOO.

I’m not sure I understand you, but my gut response is to remind you that all three conditions of a mortal sin may not be present, especially in those within secular society. An unmarried couple may engage in anal intercourse everyday of their life without ever committing a mortal sin. Did I answer your question?

(Avoiding sin might be considerably harder for devout Catholics, at least in some ways.)

LOVE!