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Beryllos
Guest
The war we’ve been fighting in Iraq since 2003.
Did you think it started today with this killing?
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AlNg
Guest
So, the end (low priced oil and huge profits to American oil companies) justifies the means (American intervention resulting in the deaths and misery of innocent children)? AFAIK, this type of argument would not be supported by the just war doctrine.The lives of innocent people are dependent on oil. The modern world could not exist without it and transitioning away from it would have deaths in the millions without a viable alternative.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
But in this case I tend to agree with EndTimes.
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Beryllos
Guest
Yes, today we are one day closer to the end.
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1Lord1Faith
Guest
That’s under the 2001 authorization (AUMF)The war we’ve been fighting in Iraq since 2003.
‘Operation Soleimani’ seems to be a defensive measure against a direct threat which has already manifested itself in the attack on the US Embassy in Iraq (among other things). The President has the authority to carry out operations like that, without authorization from Congress.
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AlNg
Guest
The supply of oil is limited and as time goes on, different sources of energy might be used to supplement the inevitable coming decrease in its availability.I’m not saying it’s justified. I’m saying it’s the way things are.
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esieffe
Guest
I am not sure it applies here. Iran is a terror state whether one wants to accept it or not. The “general” in question has been hatching terrible plots of mischief for years, resulting in the death of many Americans. The strikes were against a group of ruthless killers in a struggle that has been taking place since 1980. The man himself was an assassin. He death is a heavy blow to the Iranian terror machine, as his expertise was legend.
He became fatally overconfident and after the rocket attacks by us after a contractor was killed and soldiers wounded he failed to take the hint he was overplaying his hand. His overconfidence meant that his days were numbered. Truly the world is safer in the long term without him.
People should remember that when you take up arms against someone, you yourself become a target. In many ways, though it might not be a popular thought here, these attacks were defensive, especially if he was actively planning an new and more deadly attack.
In my opinion, the just war doctrine is a measure used in the days when countries openly declared war on one another, and even then something to consider before a first strike. A good and famous example was when Spain attacked England after the execution of Mary Queen of Scotts. I am not interested on weighing in on whether that was just or not, it is just an example of when that doctrine was looked at.
I can’t say that this attack was good or overplayed, but I do know that a response was needed for the attack and storming of our embassy, while Iraq stood by. I myself might have selected another target, but I don’t have military advisers either. I was taught as a kid, that spending my days hiding on the playground from bullies was not a sound strategy. Ignoring all of these recent attacks have only served to embolden our enemies. We have to understand that our enemies use a different playbook than we do. A response was needed.
He became fatally overconfident and after the rocket attacks by us after a contractor was killed and soldiers wounded he failed to take the hint he was overplaying his hand. His overconfidence meant that his days were numbered. Truly the world is safer in the long term without him.
People should remember that when you take up arms against someone, you yourself become a target. In many ways, though it might not be a popular thought here, these attacks were defensive, especially if he was actively planning an new and more deadly attack.
In my opinion, the just war doctrine is a measure used in the days when countries openly declared war on one another, and even then something to consider before a first strike. A good and famous example was when Spain attacked England after the execution of Mary Queen of Scotts. I am not interested on weighing in on whether that was just or not, it is just an example of when that doctrine was looked at.
I can’t say that this attack was good or overplayed, but I do know that a response was needed for the attack and storming of our embassy, while Iraq stood by. I myself might have selected another target, but I don’t have military advisers either. I was taught as a kid, that spending my days hiding on the playground from bullies was not a sound strategy. Ignoring all of these recent attacks have only served to embolden our enemies. We have to understand that our enemies use a different playbook than we do. A response was needed.
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flamingpuppet
Guest
Yep and has not the IRGC, which Suleimani headed, been declared to be a terrorist organization? Yes, it has. Therefore, he was a terrorist leader. Done deal. No casus belli required.
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Beryllos
Guest
This is so like Wag the Dog.
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1Lord1Faith
Guest
The 2001 authorization was only meant for Al-Qaeda and it’s affiliates. The consensus in Congress is that any affiliation that Iran has with Al-Qaeda is of little consequence regarding the AUMF. Iran has fought against ISIS in Iraq and would not be considered affiliated with them or to be harboring them. But supposedly, a case has been made by the administration to the the Armed Services Committee in Congress, and probably other Congressional Committees as well, that ties Iran to Al-Qaeda.Yep and has not the IRGC, which Suleimani headed, been declared to be a terrorist organization?
But ‘Operation Soleimani’ didn’t need authorization from Congress anyway.
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EndTimes
Guest
So you might think… that that’s what regular folks would actually do…The CCC spells it out clearly enough that regular folks like we can make an attempt to determine whether a country’s waging of war is just or unjust.
I’m very familiar with the CCC … I’ve owned a copy for a lonnnnng time .
I’ve heard that this pope might update the CCC on Just War… You?
Thing is… What % of Catholics even heard of - let alone own - let alone read - the CCC?
So… Will any change amount to a big hullaballoo? Or just a minor barely heard bump in the road?
Did WWII’s efforts to stop Nazism constitute a Just War?
When/IF Armaaggedon hits it shall be very Just considering that the Judge and His Troops are there
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EndTimes
Guest
Lives of course. and let’s never forget about the largest murderer… ABORTION.Which is more important
Oil or
the lives of innocent children and civilians?
That said, nothing can stop what’s going down - for Jesus and Scriptures must be fulfilled.
The Bottom Line? We do what we can do … including assisting the continuation of Faith Itself.
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Beryllos
Guest
I haven’t heard, but it wouldn’t surprise me. The teachings on just war, personal self-defense, and capital punishment are all related, and could be clarified.I’ve heard that this pope might update the CCC on Just War… You?
The text may be updated, but one thing won’t change: the fundamental idea that life is a gift from God, and man may not take the life of another to protect goods like petroleum or household property, nor for retribution or deterrence, nor for power or pride.
Even the life of a bad man should be safeguarded to the greatest extent possible, so that he may someday repent and be saved.
Jesus commands us to love our enemies, and to pray for them. Please join me in prayer for the repose of the soul of General Soleimani.
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AlNg
Guest
Jesus and Scriptures must be fulfilled.
Yes and He also said:Jesus commands us to love our enemies,
Blessed are the peacemakers, Matthew 5: 9
and
38 You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. Matthew 5: 38 - 40.
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EndTimes
Guest
The CP ‘change’ in the CCC was almost infinitesimal … aka not quite earth shattering…I haven’t heard, but it wouldn’t surprise me. The teachings on just war, personal self-defense, and capital punishment are all related, and could be clarified.
AND… 2019 witnessed 22 DP’s employed in the US of A
Popes (plural) have been nudging for a total end to CP
That change … sits as a probable prelude to some shift in Just War…
Along with possible never-ending fist-fights of armchair theologians
over definitions of kill versus murder… as an any Killing = Murder…
It is our Duty to protect Life - even if unfortunately lethal means had to be employed.
One this we do know for certain… Abortion is Murder.
1.5 Billion + killings of babes in the womb.
We want to hear this Truism shouted from the Rooftops by ALL Clergy
and from every pulpit in the world…
_
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Theo520
Guest
Sounds like you supported pulling troops from Syria
Kurds be darned
Pull all troops home,
let others get their cheeks slapped (killed).
It’s the Christian thing
Kurds be darned
Pull all troops home,
let others get their cheeks slapped (killed).
It’s the Christian thing
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EndTimes
Guest
At the Return of Jesus - He’ll toss His Enemies into Hell…Yes and He also said:
Blessed are the peacemakers, Matthew 5: 9
and
38 You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. Matthew 5: 38 - 40.
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EndTimes
Guest
Syria is complex … 10 years ago. The she eye aye should’ve kept its beak out of Syria, and never should have organized, armed and funded mercs from dozens of nations in its effort to oust Assad…which in turn … as per its usual “Peace Efforts” whilst attempting to Glom OIL and gain Strategic Footprints - as the incredible cost of lives, lives and more lives. often in a false casus belli excuse.Sounds like you supported pulling troops from Syria
Kurds be darned
Pull all troops home,
let others get their cheeks slapped (killed).
It’s the Christian thing
It’s been an epic fail…
IDLIB is still hot… USA, TURKS, RUSSIANS, IRANIANS, SYRIANS, KURDS and other JIHADISTS
- What could go wrong?
Jesus shall lead an Army… and defeat those of AntiChrist… Now, That’s Just!
The worst thing is never to die the death of the body… It’s losing Salvation…
)
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Dave27360
Guest
What is the source of that picture?
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VonDerTann
Guest
I always find it ironic (yet sad) when people endlessly debate how bad the US is, as they sit at their computers in their warm houses, under the mantle of safety that the US military has provided to much of the world since 1945. No single nation or combination of nations has done more to keep others safe from the likes of communism, Islamic terror, and threats to international peace than has the US military and the deterrent it has provided since 1945.
I wonder BTW - were the 9/11/01 murders of thousands of Americans by Islamic terrorists a “just war?” Funny how we never talk about that…
I wonder BTW - were the 9/11/01 murders of thousands of Americans by Islamic terrorists a “just war?” Funny how we never talk about that…
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