Dolan: Catholic Church needs better outreach to gays

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‘Gay’ doesn’t mean homosexual any more than ‘choice’ means abortion.

Words have meaning. A hijacking of terms cloud the issue.
 
Sailor_Kenshin said:
‘Gay’ doesn’t mean homosexual any more than ‘choice’ means abortion.

Words have meaning. A hijacking of terms cloud the issue.
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In fairness, words are only defined by their use. The English language has only changed over time because people have just started speaking different.
 
meltzerboy said:
Which is exactly the way Cardinal Dolan prefers to preach in this and other matters: his is a preaching of inclusion, not exclusion, which first includes all sinners and then, gently, instructs them to depart from their sins. This is the method and teaching of Jesus: “I do not condemn thee; go, and sin no more.”
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There is a difference (-and I don’t mean that Jesus was Jesus and that Cardinal Dolan is but a man, though of course that is true too). The people who listened to Jesus recognized the authority of religious teachers and hoped to learn from him. Cardinal Dolan is being asked to convince people who deny the teaching authority of the Church how it is that he preaches something they find ridiculous.

It would be one thing if Catholics (and others who feel the Church has an obligation to answer to) were to say, “this is a hard saying” and ask for help in understanding. But this is not what is happening. The issue is really the opposite: these people are asking the Cardinal how he could ignore their moral authority! They are not asking to be taught; rather, they are insisting they lead!

I don’t think Jesus preached to anyone who thought that way.
 
Marie5890 said:
👍

I will add to, about the comment on happiness that the only way to happiness is thru marriage between one man and one woman.

I know plenty of gay couples, and they are happy. So not sure how that thought reflects the reality many gay couples experience in all honesty.
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There are plenty of adulterers, too. I would imagine that they think themselves “happy”, as well.
 
CMatt25 said:
Actually there are many Christians today some in denominations who do not believe they ignore the NT but whose understanding of the NT is simply different than yours.

In any case the NT also says not to judge and to be concerned with our own eye planks and not to cast the first stones. Pope Francis actually spoke eloquently the other week about not casting the first stone and about how Jesus did not condemn the adulteress. And that even though Jesus told her to sin no more, Pope Francis said in about a month people do sin again. And even so ,still, Francis said, it is mercy that Jesus is all about.
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The NT also tells us to be our brother’s keeper and be mindful of the deceit of sin, such as making excuses to completely and forever avoid fraternal correction as your post seems to imply here.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
There are plenty of adulterers, too. I would imagine that they think themselves “happy”, as well.
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Good to see you again.

The more people need external recognition for their sex life, the more unstable and insecure it probably is.
 
Elizabeth502 said:
the most universally respected scripture scholars of all faiths share the view of the Catholic Church regarding the sexual mores
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:rolleyes: Ok so you and others don’t respect the scholars in faiths such as Unitarian Universalism, the United Church of Christ, and some in the Episcopal Church, as just a few examples, who have come to a different understanding and disagree with the Catholic Church on homosexuals and SS marriage. You don’t have to respect them. 🤷
 
estesbob said:
I don’t see where the Church outreach to homosexuals would be any different that their outreach to anyone else who was living in sin.
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A mortal sin is a mortal sin. Why do they need special treatment as opposed to any other mortal sin/sinner?
 
estesbob said:
I don’t see where the Church outreach to homosexuals would be any different that their outreach to anyone else who was living in sin.
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Get with the program. This is a special sin like no other. You must view this through the lens of 21st century relativism. Lay aside your bigotry and accept those who demand the loudest and the most are correct and you are simply uncharitable. See now?😉
 
fix said:
Get with the program. This is a special sin like no other. You must view this through the lens of 21st century relativism. Lay aside your bigotry and accept those who demand the loudest and the most are correct and you are simply uncharitable. See now?😉
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I was told by a Catholic that if I didn’t believe in gay marriage I was a bigot and hated gays. Whatever.

Did you know the most important issue to those 30 years old and younger is Gay Rights?

That would be the last thing on my list. First would be a job and cheaper education.
 
jay29 said:
I was told by a Catholic that if I didn’t believe in gay marriage I was a bigot and hated gays. Whatever.

Did you know the most important issue to those 30 years old and younger is Gay Rights?

That would be the last thing on my list. First would be a job and cheaper education.
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Indoctrination, relativism, solipsism, herd mentality all lead one to hold erroneous positions.
 
CMatt25 said:
:Ok so you and the vast majority of others** in the field** don’t respect the -]scholars/-] “scholars” in faiths such as Unitarian Universalism, the United Church of Christ, and some in the Episcopal Church, as just a few examples, who have come to a different understanding and disagree with the Catholic Church on homosexuals and SS marriage.
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Since I am myself a scripture scholar who has studied this issue widely, conversing with other scholars in that regard, no I do not respect the faulty methodology employed by all of those I have read with rogue ideas (which include the above) about the Mosaic Code and Jesus’ adherence to it. It’s about their academic approaches, which are severely lacking, and mine is the majority opinion, I hate to tell you. Correct, I don’t “have to agree,” because the basis of agreement would be faulty methodology, judged by the consensus of unanimously respected scripture scholars on this issue..
 
fix said:
Indoctrination, relativism, solipsism, herd mentality all lead one to hold erroneous positions.
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Yep. Militant homosexuals and their agenda are the cause of many ills in this country.
 
CMatt25 said:
:rolleyes: Ok so you and others don’t respect the scholars in faiths such as Unitarian Universalism, the United Church of Christ, and some in the Episcopal Church, as just a few examples, who have come to a different understanding and disagree with the Catholic Church on homosexuals and SS marriage. You don’t have to respect them. 🤷
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I dont have to respect them because they are wrong. They have come to the conclusion that all that went before us were wrong-that somehow they have been gifted with wisdom greater than that of every theologian from the founding of the Catholic Church to 30 years ago. The Truth does not change.It would be a terribly incompetent god who would allow his people to live in error for 2,000 years.
 
fix said:
I thought we were talking about the Church’s use of the term disordered inclination? She refers to a philosophical position. The inclination is not ordered toward the good. The person himself is not disordered.
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Of course we’re talking about the Church’s use of the term. My whole point is that when we are dealing with persons who take offense to the Church’s position regarding homosexuality, what may appear to be common sense to a Catholic (disordered inclination), may not be so common to the homosexual person who may see it through their lense as disordered “you’re going to hell for having such feelings” inclination.

BTW…I don’t understand what you mean by “She” (:confused:)…If you’re referring to someone else in the thread…sorry I haven’t really been following everyone else’s conversation regarding this…just contributing my own thoughts regarding.
 
markeverett49 said:
There is a difference (-and I don’t mean that Jesus was Jesus and that Cardinal Dolan is but a man, though of course that is true too). The people who listened to Jesus recognized the authority of religious teachers and hoped to learn from him. Cardinal Dolan is being asked to convince people who deny the teaching authority of the Church how it is that he preaches something they find ridiculous.

It would be one thing if Catholics (and others who feel the Church has an obligation to answer to) were to say, “this is a hard saying” and ask for help in understanding. But this is not what is happening. The issue is really the opposite: these people are asking the Cardinal how he could ignore their moral authority! They are not asking to be taught; rather, they are insisting they lead!

I don’t think Jesus preached to anyone who thought that way.
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Didn’t the Apostles preach to gentiles as well as Jews and weren’t the former not particularly willing to follow Jewish Law first before becoming followers of Christ, as the Apostles soon realized?

How else would you have Cardinal Dolan preach to those who ignore the moral authority of the Church? Would telling them they will go to hell if they don’t obey be more effective than welcoming them into the Church and offering them the hope of redemption? How would you prefer to be evangelized?
 
meltzerboy said:
Didn’t the Apostles preach to gentiles as well as Jews and weren’t the former not particularly willing to follow Jewish customs, as the Apostles soon realized?

How else would you have Cardinal Dolan preach to those who ignore the moral authority of the Church? Would telling them they will go to hell if they don’t obey be more effective than welcoming them into the Church and offering them the hope of redemption? How would you prefer to be evangelized?
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Of course they did-they also preached to sinners-with the same message preached to sinners today-repent and sin no more. This is the message they should be evangalized with.
 
Stylteralmaldo said:
Of course we’re talking about the Church’s use of the term. My whole point is that when we are dealing with persons who take offense to the Church’s position regarding homosexuality, what may appear to be common sense to a Catholic (disordered inclination), may not be so common to the homosexual person who may see it through their lense as disordered “you’re going to hell for having such feelings” inclination.

BTW…I don’t understand what you mean by “She” (:confused:)…If you’re referring to someone else in the thread…sorry I haven’t really been following everyone else’s conversation regarding this…just contributing my own thoughts regarding.
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By She I was referring to the Church.

If people are confused they can seek clarification. We tend to presume ill will immediately. It is unfortunate.
 
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