Donald Trump Thread

[Ridgerunner]

Probably some of the people here on CAF are on the terrorist watch list, because Janet Napolitano has at least said she puts people on it who have engaged in prolife protests.

That’s a big part of the problem with some of the restriction proposals; some administrations can’t be trusted not to use it as political payback, like this administration did with the IRS.

Now, if your local county judiciary could order your name removed, I could trust it a bit more.

 

[Crossbones]

Probably some of the people here on CAF are on the terrorist watch list, because Janet Napolitano has at least said she puts people on it who have engaged in prolife protests.

That’s a big part of the problem with some of the restriction proposals; some administrations can’t be trusted not to use it as political payback, like this administration did with the IRS.

Now, if your local county judiciary could order your name removed, I could trust it a bit more.

So, are you for or against the NRA proposal?

 

[Peebo]

Car makers are allowed to sell cars that are capable of far exceeding any posted speed limit.

Here in Florida…if you want to drive a car…provide two forms of identification…proof of date of birth…proof of residential address…proof of Social Security Number…proof that you have completed a traffic law and substance abuse education course…required to pass a vision and hearing test…road rules and road sign test…and…of course a driving test…then you’ll be issued a license…if you pass…you will have to register your car every year…license every 7 years…you want an AR-15…no worries…a quick electronic check…bingo…take it home…by the way…I’m not anti gun…I have 4…none of them would be classed as assault style…I don’t need that for hunting or self protection…I’m not a gun collector or belong to a gun club…apart from those the general public doesn’t need that fire power…well…maybe those who are paranoid…which seems to be the case with most of these mass shootings

 

[Bill_Martin]

Here in Florida…if you want to drive a car…provide two forms of identification…proof of date of birth…proof of residential address…proof of Social Security Number…proof that you have completed a traffic law and substance abuse education course…required to pass a vision and hearing test…road rules and road sign test…and…of course a driving test…then you’ll be issued a license…if you pass…you will have to register your car every year…license every 7 years…you want an AR-15…no worries…a quick electronic check…bingo…take it home…by the way…I’m not anti gun…I have 4…none of them would be classed as assault style…I don’t need that for hunting or self protection…I’m not a gun collector or belong to a gun club…apart from those the general public doesn’t need that fire power…well…maybe those who are paranoid…which seems to be the case with most of these mass shootings

Driving a car is not the same as buying one. You can go out and buy a car with just a driver’s license, and probably without even that.

Plus, car accidents kill thousands of times more people every year than AR-15s.

 

[meltzerboy]

Donald Trump plans to meet with NRA on banning gun sales for people on terror watch list cnn.it/1rq7nC9

Does this mean the NRA leadership is opposed to banning gun sales for these people? Why would anyone be opposed? Is it they do not trust the contents of the terror watch list?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Driving a car is not the same as buying one. You can go out and buy a car with just a driver’s license, and probably without even that.

Are you assuming that cars will always be sold that are capable of going much faster that all speed limits? Because I can see that changing. If people driving fast becomes that much of a problem, they may very well decide that consumer cars should not be made with that capability.

Plus, car accidents kill thousands of times more people every year than AR-15s.

I think if you measured it on a per unit basis, AR-15s kill more people. I mean if you sell 1,000,000 cars and 1,000,000 AR-15s, which set of would kill more people? The reason cars on the whole kill more people is that there are so many more cars out there than AR-15s. Also the balancing benefit of each car is so much greater than the benefit of the average AR-15 that banning cars would cost us a lot more than banning AR-15s.

 

[styrgwillidar]

washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/16/doj-overrules-fbi-gun-sales-debate/

Interesting point I was not aware of- the FBI director opposed banning sales to folks on the terror watch list due to worries it would blow investigations.

Suspected terrorist walks in to buy a gun, is told he doesn’t pass the background check, he now knows he’s on the list and being watched and that he and his cell have been compromised. If he passes the check, he now has confirmation he and his cell are not being watched and can proceed.

 

[Brendan]

Here in Florida…if you want to drive a car…provide two forms of identification…proof of date of birth…proof of residential address…proof of Social Security Number…proof that you have completed a traffic law and substance abuse education course…required to pass a vision and hearing test…road rules and road sign test…and…of course a driving test…then you’ll be issued a license

Not quite true, anybody can drive a car on their own property without any of what you describe. No license, no background check, no registration, no insurance required.

You can take home a Porche or Maserati simply writing a check and having it delivered. High powered, fully automatic ones even

What you mention is required if you desire to operate your car on public property.

Is that what you are proposing, that they be treated similarly? That you can bring home an AR-15 just as easily as a F-150 and use it to your hearts content, as long as it stays on private property? No background check, no license, no registration? You can get it transported to someone else’s property and use them there ( with their permission of course)

And that you would only need to license the AR-15 if you planned on using it on public property

 

[styrgwillidar]

Does this mean the NRA leadership is opposed to banning gun sales for these people? Why would anyone be opposed? Is it they do not trust the contents of the terror watch list?

If you read the rest of the thread or have followed the prior debates- there is no standard for putting folks on the list. Putting them on the list can be politically motivated, the DHS have been far more vocal about possible right wing terrorism that hasn’t materialized than left-wing or Islamic terrorism. Hence Ridgerunner’s point that anti-abortion activists ended up on the list. Just as there is no set criteria for adding someone, there is no process to notify someone they are on it, and no process for appealing and having oneself removed. As stated previously— the terror watch list is not the same thing as the no-fly list, which is far smaller. The NRA supports a plan where a person being denied the purchase of a firearm due to being on the list is then allowed to appeal. The CA Democrat Feinstein has proposed banning people who’ve been removed from the list. Kind of makes sense given the Orlando shooter having been on/off the list at different times, so why not make those folks appeal and take one last look as well? If he’d remained on the list at least the FBI would have gotten a notice he purchased firearms.

 

[Peebo]

Driving a car is not the same as buying one. You can go out and buy a car with just a driver’s license, and probably without even that.

Plus, car accidents kill thousands of times more people every year than AR-15s.

Cars are designed for the purpose of driving…not killing…AR-15’s are designed for the purpose of killing…not driving

Plus…you can buy an AR-15 and use without any training or license…try doing that with a car and see how long before you end up in the slammer

Car accidents kill around 32,000 a year…guns kill around 32,000 a year…whether through murder…suicide or accidental

 

[Bill_Martin]

Peebo:
Cars are designed for the purpose of driving…not killing…AR-15’s are designed for the purpose of killing…not driving

Plus…you can buy an AR-15 and use without any training or license…try doing that with a car and see how long before you end up in the slammer

Car accidents kill around 32,000 a year…guns kill around 32,000 a year…whether through murder…suicide or accidental

My AR must be defective, because I have never used it for killing and it works just fine.

Here’s the actual data contradicting your claim.

fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

There were 285 murders with rifles of any type whatsoever, much less an AR in 2015.

 

[sallybutler]

My AR must be defective, because I have never used it for killing and it works just fine.

Here’s the actual data contradicting your claim.

fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

There were 285 murders with rifles of any type whatsoever, much less an AR in 2015.

Out of honest curiosity, what do you use it for?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Here’s the actual data contradicting your claim.

fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

There were 285 murders with rifles of any type whatsoever, much less an AR in 2015.

Read Peebo’s claim more carefully:

“guns” not “rifles” or “AR-15s”
“murder, suicide, or accidental”, not just “homicide”.

Peebo’s claim remains unrefuted.

 

[shockerfan]

Out of honest curiosity, what do you use it for?

My neighbor owns an AR-15, plus a number of other rifles and hand guns. He is an avid hunter, who also like to target shoot, as well as keep his property clear of wild boar.

He invited a number of neighbors to his property where we spent a weekend enjoying the outdoors and shooting his guns.

He also has never killed anybody

 

[sallybutler]

My neighbor owns an AR-15, plus a number of other rifles and hand guns. He is an avid hunter, who also like to target shoot, as well as keep his property clear of wild boar.

He invited a number of neighbors to his property where we spent a weekend enjoying the outdoors and shooting his guns.

He also has never killed anybody

Is the AR-15 a good rifle for hunting game or is it better suited for target practice? Or is it more of a status gun like some cars are status symbols (like a fancy convertible that never gets taken out of the garage if there is even a hint of showers)?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Out of honest curiosity, what do you use it for?

Any living creature under 300 lbs can be killed with good shot placement. Without a good shot placement they may get away.

 

[Brendan]

Plus…you can buy an AR-15 and use without any training or license…try doing that with a car and see how long before you end up in the slammer

Are you talking purchasing or using?.

Both can be purchased in FL with no training what so ever. Heck, a blind quadriplegic who has never been in a car before can PURCHASE a car.

Now if we are talking using them;, operating an AR-15 on public roads (license or not) will get you into the slammer FAR faster than operating a car without a license.

 

[shockerfan]

Is the AR-15 a good rifle for hunting game or is it better suited for target practice?

I would have to ask an avid hunter this question. I believe there are better, more accurate guns for hunting deer or other large game, however, the AR-15 owners say shooting them is fun. We shot targets all day and had a blast (no pun intended)

Or is it more of a status gun like some cars are status symbols (like a fancy convertible that never gets taken out of the garage if there is even a hint of showers)?

I think there is something to this. I know a few people who own many, many guns. There are some they own and have never shot. One gentleman loves to talk about the history and the craftsmanship of the various guns he owns.

Again, all of these friends are the most stable, neighborly, friendly people you would ever meet. Its just a hobby / passion for them.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Is the AR-15 a good rifle for hunting game or is it better suited for target practice? Or is it more of a status gun like some cars are status symbols (like a fancy convertible that never gets taken out of the garage if there is even a hint of showers)?

One of the benefits of the AR is that, being modular you can optimize it for whatever purpose you want. It has a very light recoil compared to other rifles. Remington has a line of AR based rifles optimized for hunting- mostly varmint/small game.

So depends what you want- a rifle good for self defense that can be used by multiple people- adjustable length stock, single stage trigger, red-dot sights or laser (your preference), sling, 16" barrel, mount a flashlight to dazzle/blind and identify an intruder (hopefully meaning you don’t have to shoot, and if you do you know exactly who/what you’re shooting).

A long range target/competition rifle. Fixed stock for some competitions, stock adjustable for LOP and cheek height/weld, bipod, a set of iron sights designed for long range competitions or a scope, free float handguard, dual stage adjustable trigger with a very light second stage pull, 18 to 20’ barrel with twist rate for heavier (relatively) bullets.

3 gun competition, similar to HD, but with both red dot and off-set iron sights and a trigger optimized for 3 gun (short reset single stage). Not into this but some folks get very particular about the type of buffer/BCG to optimize rate of fire vs recoil, tunable flash hider permitting countering barrel rise.

Plinking- iron sights, adjustable or fixed stock, single stage trigger, hand- guard providing good thermal protection if you go through a lot of ammo quickly.

Hunting - depends what you’re hunting but a combination of features above.

ETA: Sorry, forgot to mention-- and you can use different calibers by changing uppers which are more suited to different purpose. Some are intended for greater accuracy for competition shooting but based on .223/5.56 (White Oak Armament/Compass Lake Engineering/.223 Wylde), others are completely different dimensions (6.5 Grendel/300 Blackout), .300 can be had in both supersonic and subsonic versions. The subsonic works well when combined with a suppressor to be much easier on the ears.

 

[Brendan]

Is the AR-15 a good rifle for hunting game or is it better suited for target practice?

Depends on the game. In most states, it is considered to be too underpowered for large game, such as deer.

For varmint hunting, raccoon, groundhog, coyote, etc…, it is very good.

Which is why ranch rifles, such as the Ruger M-14, are functionally very similar. The shoot the same ammunition, use the same larger capacity magazines ( you are generally getting rid of more than one pest) , same dependability when you take them out in the field for days.

ARs are even replacing guns like the Ruger as the more common ranch gun. AR’s have a lot of interchangeability that hunters\ranchers like. Want a longer barrel, just screw one in., like a full stock, no prob, just screw it on. You want different sights or optics?, your average gun store has rows full of them.

Go to a gun range, and I can pretty much guarantee that no two AR’s will look the same.