Drinking alcohol and smoking pot – what are your thoughts?

[CopticChristian]

My knowledge of addiction is cursory. From what I do know, I would agree with you that it is a spiritual problem.

What do you make of the thinking that there may be some genetic predisposition?

Epan,

There may be a predisposition however that does not mean addiction is genetic…from the Truth about Addiction, Stanton Peele, Phd.

Why the Disease Model Is Wrong

Every major tenet of the “disease” view of addiction is refuted both by scientific research and by everyday observation. This is true even for alcoholism and drug addiction, let alone the many other behaviors that plainly have little to do with biology and medicine.

No biological or genetic mechanisms have been identified that account for addictive behavior. Even for alcoholism, as the following chapter will show, the evidence for genetic inheritance is unconvincing. By now, probably every well-informed reader has heard announcements that scientists have discovered a gene that causes alcoholism. In fact, as one of us wrote in The Atlantic, this is far from the case, and the study that prompted these claims has already been refuted by another study in the same journal.1 Moreover, if a gene were found to influence alcoholism, would the same gene cause drug addiction? Would it be related to smoking? Would it also cause compulsive gambling and overeating? If so, this would mean that everyone with any of these addictions has this genetic inheritance. Indeed, given the ubiquity of the problems described, the person without this inheritance would seem to be the notable exception.

How could an addiction like smoking be genetic? Why are some types of people more likely to smoke than others (about half of waitresses and car salesmen smoke, compared with about a tenth of lawyers and doctors)? And does believing that an addiction like smoking is genetic help the person quit (are all those smokers who quit not “genetically” addicted)? Returning to alcohol, are people really predestined biologically to become alcoholics and thus to become A.A. members? Think about the rock group Aerosmith: all five members of this group now belong to A.A., just as they once all drank and took drugs together. How unlikely a coincidence it is that five unrelated people with the alcoholic/addictive inheritance should run into one another and form a band!

The idea that genes make you become alcoholic cannot possibly help us understand how people develop drinking problems over years, why they choose on so many occasions to go out drinking, how they become members of heavy-drinking groups, and how drinkers are so influenced by the circumstances of their lives. Genes may make a person unusually sensitive to the physiological effects of alcohol; a person can find drinking extremely relaxing or enjoyable; but this says nothing about how the person drinks over the course of a lifetime. After all, some people say, “I never have more than one or two drinks at a time, because alcohol goes straight to my head.”

As we document here and in the following chapter, we can actually predict the likelihood of people’s becoming addicted far more reliably from their nationality and social class, from the social groups they join, and from their beliefs and expectations about alcohol or drugs (or other activities), than from their biological makeup.2 Often, people who become addicted set themselves up by investing a substance or an experience with magical powers to transform their beings (“Getting drunk is great”; “When I drink I’m really at ease”; “Drinking makes me attractive to people of the opposite sex”).3 It is simply not within the chemical properties of alcohol or a drug, or the experience of an activity like shopping, to offer people what they want and seek from an addiction. People find this in an addiction when they believe they can’t achieve the feelings they need in ordinary ways. Clearly, attitudes, values, and the opportunities available in a person’s environment have much to do with whether the person has a significant risk for a particular addiction.

I agree with Peele…

 

[CopticChristian]

Maybe legalization of pot is not a religious issue, but rather a secular issue? Christians have a conscience before God; if a Christian believes smoking pot is sinful for them, they shouldn’t smoke it. Why should non-Christians be bond or controlled by religious views on issues like this, as well as other contemporary debatable issues?

Legalization of pot would be very beneficial on the war on drugs. Some of us are from the west coast and are very aware of increased drug cartel power and violence in Mexico. I don’t think America is winning the war on drugs.

CU,

As a Catholic Christian…we are called to participate in the Apostolic mission to go forward and make disciples of all nations. Some Protestants using the Bible alone are left to Pastors, books, tracts…forming their conscience without a well formed deposit of Faith.

The Catechism is the deposit of Faith and it is intended to be available for all Christians.

We are also sharing in the priesthood of Christ and as prophets and priests going forward to make disciples of all nations by word and deed we do care and should care what those outside the Covenant do and direct them to what it is we believe is correct.

Israel was to be a light to the nations and because of disobedience suffered…and the OHCAC is the spiritual light of the nations and like Israel of the OT there are those that adhere and those that don’t adhere to the deposit of Faith…and that Faith as Paul says in Romans…is “obedient Faith”…so we are left to be obedient or disobedient…and if obedient…we recognize that by one man’s disobedience sin entered the world…and we know that by our disobedience sin enters our lives, the lives of others…and we are called to share in that light of the nations and be a light to ourselves first and a light to others…

The War on drugs is a separate issue that has been addressed by people like LEAP…found here…

leap.cc/

 

[Christian_Unity]

CU,

As a Catholic Christian…we are called to participate in the Apostolic mission to go forward and make disciples of all nations. Some Protestants using the Bible alone are left to Pastors, books, tracts…forming their conscience without a well formed deposit of Faith.

The Catechism is the deposit of Faith and it is intended to be available for all Christians.

We are also sharing in the priesthood of Christ and as prophets and priests going forward to make disciples of all nations by word and deed we do care and should care what those outside the Covenant do and direct them to what it is we believe is correct.

Israel was to be a light to the nations and because of disobedience suffered…and the OHCAC is the spiritual light of the nations and like Israel of the OT there are those that adhere and those that don’t adhere to the deposit of Faith…and that Faith as Paul says in Romans…is “obedient Faith”…so we are left to be obedient or disobedient…and if obedient…we recognize that by one man’s disobedience sin entered the world…and we know that by our disobedience sin enters our lives, the lives of others…and we are called to share in that light of the nations and be a light to ourselves first and a light to others…

The War on drugs is a separate issue that has been addressed by people like LEAP…found here…

leap.cc/

What are your views of separation of church and state, Tea Party movement, and the conservative Fundamentalist right agenda of making this country an apparent Christian theocracy? I know there are Catholic countries which do not separate church and state. I do not believe God has elect nations like OT Israel, nor do I believe America is an elect nation of God. I do believe God elects individual sinners to be His adopted children of God from all tongue, tribes, and nations; therefore, the body of Christ is global.

 

[CopticChristian]

What are your views of separation of church and state, Tea Party movement, and the conservative Fundamentalist right agenda of making this country an apparent Christian theocracy? I know there are Catholic countries which do not separate church and state. I do not believe God has elect nations like OT Israel, nor do I believe America is an elect nation of God. I do believe God elects individual sinners to be His adopted children of God from all tongue, tribes, and nations; therefore, the body of Christ is global.

CU,

Ask yourself and investigate and then let me know where this notion of separation of Church and State came from and why it exists.

Fundamentalists will never succeed and even if they do they lack any cohesive leadership.

Veritatis Splendor addresses this and suggests that as Catholics we agree in what is called a Participatory Theonomy…

The elect nation of America is based on Puritan/Protestant thought as I understand it…

You are correct that all earth and it’s children belong to God…

 

[Christian_Unity]

CU,

Ask yourself and investigate and then let me know where this notion of separation of Church and State came from and why it exists.

Fundamentalists will never succeed and even if they do they lack any cohesive leadership.

Veritatis Splendor addresses this and suggests that as Catholics we agree in what is called a Participatory Theonomy…

The elect nation of America is based on Puritan/Protestant thought as I understand it…

You are correct that all earth and it’s children belong to God…

We are getting off the thread topic a bit; I reject Christian Reconstructionism, Theonomy, and an apparent push for a Christian theocracy in America. If you start a thread on these issues, I will participate. Okay… back to the drinking and smoking thread topic.

 

[CopticChristian]

We are getting off the thread topic a bit; I reject Christian Reconstructionism, Theonomy, and an apparent push for a Christian theocracy in America. If you start a thread on these issues, I will participate. Okay… back to the drinking and smoking thread topic.

CU,

You asked the question. As I recall in one of your previous posts…

I had too much to drink during my poker game to contribute to this thread. :hypno:

You may want to cut back on your poker…

 

[jackson3997]

Prayers and blessings to you for your strength and good sense. It is indeed a spritual battle on many levels. It definitely affects your reason, clouds judgment, and makes you less social. It also leads to sloth and gluttony (laziness and excessive hunger). Paranoia is another side effect in many people as well as short term memory loss. Again, much is unknown about the effects of marijuana on the brain. I also belive that it opens the door to experimentation with other drugs.

And my personal opinion, is that it opens the door to legion.

Thank you, Mickey for the prayers and blessings. I did indeed forget about the sloth, gluttony, and paranoia end of it as well so thanks for pointing that out. I know satan has come after me with the temptation of past sins in my dreams and I can wholeheartedly tell you the LORD would much prefer you have a glass of wine or beer. I urge anyone who is having doubt about this subject to pick up that rosary. Our most wonderful Mother and Queen will help you through. Peace and goodness

 

[Mickey]

Thank you, Mickey for the prayers and blessings. I did indeed forget about the sloth, gluttony, and paranoia end of it as well so thanks for pointing that out. I know satan has come after me with the temptation of past sins in my dreams and I can wholeheartedly tell you the LORD would much prefer you have a glass of wine or beer. I urge anyone who is having doubt about this subject to pick up that rosary. Our most wonderful Mother and Queen will help you through. Peace and goodness

I have also fought my share of demons with the subject at hand. That is why I am so adamant about it. Prayer and the Mystery of Holy Confession saved my life. Keep up the good fight my brother in Christ. And please pray for me.

That sinner,
Mickey

 

[Jessup]

It wouldn’t matter, because any honest medical declaration would contradict the Catechism, since alcohol and nicotine are medically classified as addictive drugs in the U.S. (by both the AMA and the CDC), yet the Catechism permits it.

I’m not a physician, but I’ve worked in the medical field for some time and I’m familiar with the classifications and how they contradict Catholic teaching.

Peace and God bless!

How on earth is nicotine permitted in the catechism, it seems like common sense that anyone would know that smoking, chewing, snuff, any of that kills you.

I guess its the gluten again. not the use.
Why is gay sexy not permitted then? if its only done in moderation, the
way alcohol should be to make it not sinful.
not that I condone such a mess. but its the same concept in my eyes.

 

[Indifferently]

You can drink alcohol but cannabis will addle your brain beyond repair and turn you into an anti-social, giggling imbecile. So many people I know have been victims of this stuff. I can’t urge people away from it strongly enough.

 

[Jessup]

You can drink alcohol but cannabis will addle your brain beyond repair and turn you into an anti-social, giggling imbecile. So many people I know have been victims of this stuff. I can’t urge people away from it strongly enough.

 The day users start drinking and smoking pot  is the day any emotional or mental development stops.

I know guys for the past twenty years who have not matured past the age of 12 or 13 since they started smoking it as a child.
There is a reason why great countries like Singapore and China have made responsible decisions on how to maintain marijuana dealers that infiltrate their society.

 

[SteveVH]

How on earth is nicotine permitted in the catechism, it seems like common sense that anyone would know that smoking, chewing, snuff, any of that kills you.
I guess its the gluten again. not the use.
Why is gay sexy not permitted then? if its only done in moderation, the
way alcohol should be to make it not sinful.
not that I condone such a mess. but its the same concept in my eyes.

Because there is nothing inherently wrong in having a drink. There is something inherently wrong in engaging in a sexual act with someone of the same sex. Its not even close to the same concept.

 

[Christian_Unity]

Check out my smiley

 

[CopticChristian]

**How on earth is nicotine permitted in the catechism, it seems like common sense that anyone would know that smoking, chewing, snuff, any of that kills you. **I guess its the gluten again. not the use.
Why is gay sexy not permitted then? if its only done in moderation, the
way alcohol should be to make it not sinful.
not that I condone such a mess. but its the same concept in my eyes.

The Catechism says this…

2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine.

The virtue of temeperance…

1809 Temperance is the moral virtue that moderates the attraction of pleasures and provides balance in the use of created goods. It ensures the will’s mastery over instincts and keeps desires within the limits of what is honorable. The temperate person directs the sensitive appetites toward what is good and maintains a healthy discretion: "Do not follow your inclination and strength, walking according to the desires of your heart."72 Temperance is often praised in the Old Testament: "Do not follow your base desires, but restrain your appetites."73 In the New Testament it is called “moderation” or “sobriety.” We ought "to live sober, upright, and godly lives in this world."74

To live well is nothing other than to love God with all one’s heart, with all one’s soul and with all one’s efforts; from this it comes about that love is kept whole and uncorrupted (through temperance). No misfortune can disturb it (and this is fortitude). It obeys only [God] (and this is justice), and is careful in discerning things, so as not to be surprised by deceit or trickery (and this is prudence).75

The Catechism goes on to say this about virtues.

The virtues and grace

1810 Human virtues acquired by **education, **by deliberate acts and by a perseverance ever-renewed in repeated efforts are purified and elevated by divine grace. With God’s help, they forge character and give facility in the practice of the good. The virtuous man is happy to practice them.

1811 It is not easy for man, wounded by sin, to maintain moral balance. Christ’s gift of salvation offers us the grace necessary to persevere in the pursuit of the virtues. Everyone should always ask for this grace of light and strength, frequent the sacraments, cooperate with the Holy Spirit, and follow his calls to love what is good and shun evil.

II. THE THEOLOGICAL VIRTUES

1812 The human virtues are rooted in the theological virtues, which adapt man’s faculties for participation in the divine nature:76 for the theological virtues relate directly to God. They dispose Christians to live in a relationship with the Holy Trinity. They have the One and Triune God for their origin, motive, and object.

1813 The theological virtues are the foundation of Christian moral activity; they animate it and give it its special character. They inform and give life to all the moral virtues. They are infused by God into the souls of the faithful to make them capable of acting as his children and of meriting eternal life. They are the pledge of the presence and action of the Holy Spirit in the faculties of the human being. There are three theological virtues: faith, hope, and charity.77

So, while the Catechism mentions tobacco…it says avoid excess…what is excess? What is enough to cause issues related to health…smoking an occasional cigar…smoking an occasional pipe…these are not usually inhaled however constant use of pipes and cigars can and does lead to lip cancer…so prudence and temerance are required…

I don’t think the Catechism is saying that it is OK…but is not condemning it…use of prudence and temperance and formation of conscience should lead to a decision to avoid tobacco…

 

[Jessup]

Because there is nothing inherently wrong in having a drink. There is something inherently wrong in engaging in a sexual act with someone of the same sex. Its not even close to the same concept.I

  People who drink and smoke pot want to push their life style on everyone else just as much as the gay agenda does, and if you don't partake of it with them then you are their enemy to be ridiculed and mocked at as a social outcast.

If it wasn’t true, we wouldn’t have pot heads celebrating 4-20 day
(compared to coming out day) or see mass advertisements for social poison.
I grew up in a family full of pot smokers and drinkers its a joke. Its made me bitter and hateful person to this day. The only place I've ever gotten any healing from being a victim bystander of users is in the LDS church not the Mass.

 

[JustaServant]

CU,

You asked the question. As I recall in one of your previous posts…

I had too much to drink during my poker game to contribute to this thread. :hypno:

You may want to cut back on your poker…

LOL.
I think the only reason Eric has let this thread continue is the amusement it brings.

 

[Ghosty]

Ghosty,

Your opinion is personal opinion. My opinion is educated and informed and based on knowledge, training and experience. It does not take a brain surgeon to understand classification of drug or no drug. Convince yourself of what it is you choose to do. Look here…go to this site and research what is being written about Marijuana.

My opinion is based on research as well, and I don’t know why you would think otherwise. In fact, I’m already familiar with the studies you posted and my argument is actually based, in part, on them.

So, smoking marijuana may be associated with an increase in nasopharyngeal cancer and these are lovely patients, Chronic Bronchitis…a hacking constant cough and sputum production with frequent risk for illness like pneumonia, possible psychosis since you may or may not know you are at risk for Schizophrenia.

The lung problems are a) from smoking, which is not necessary, and b) the same as tobacco smoking, which is allowed. Therefore the lung damage argument doesn’t apply because the damage caused by smoking marijuana does not meet the threshold necessary for it being morally wrong. As for the schizophrenia connection there is not clear causal link, though the studies regarding marijuana use and schizophrenia do point to a possible link between adolescent marijuana use and an increased risk of schizophrenia. What is not clear is whether or not marijuana is a cause, or whether people with latent schizophrenia are attracted to drug use, as they have a higher rate of drug abuse than average. That said this is all about adolescent marijuana use, when the brain is still developing, and it is precisely adolescent marijuana use that I want to prevent insofar as it is possible. Use by young adults has a long-lasting impact on the brain that is not seen in adult users. It should be noted, however, that once again the research does more to support my assertion than to refute it, because studies have shown that adolescent alcohol use is more damaging to the adolescent brain than marijuana use. For example, this study discusses the damage that these substances can cause to the developing brain.

eeg.sagepub.com/content/40/1/31.short

If you smoke marijuana and drive you get a DUI
A conviction with Marijuana excludes you from student government loans
testing positive for Marijuana may cost you your job…

All true, and also irrelevant to the inherent morality or immorality of marijuana use.

So, the Catechism is not your source for information and you have an inclination to believe that medical societies dictate something…reality is what I dictate…please smoke marijuana, have at it.,…but please know that you are putting yourself in a risky place and anyone that follows your advice should realize the same…as for me and my house…I will serve…

None of this is true, especially any advocating of marijuana use on my part. How many times on this thread have I said that I don’t advocate marijuana use?

Peace and God bless!

 

[Tonga]

Prohibitions on consumption of alcohol are unscriptural. Over-consumption is.

Exactly. Most people drink socially and in moderation. The point is not to sit down and drink until you are totally drunk. Marajuana on the other hand-the point IS to get totally wasted on it. As such, I oppose it.

 

[JonNC]

Exactly. Most people drink socially and in moderation. The point is not to sit down and drink until you are totally drunk. Marajuana on the other hand-the point IS to get totally wasted on it. As such, I oppose it.

Agreed!! If I have beer and my wife a glass of wine (or 2) at dinner, we will not be impaired as to our behavior. Pot, OTOH…

Jon

 

[Ghosty]

Exactly. Most people drink socially and in moderation. The point is not to sit down and drink until you are totally drunk. Marajuana on the other hand-the point IS to get totally wasted on it. As such, I oppose it.

Some people do use it to get wasted, others use a moderate amount to relax, or to treat pain, or to increase appetite. There is a wide margin between no use and totally wasted.

Peace and God bless!