Drinking alcohol and smoking pot – what are your thoughts?

[CatherineOH]

I’ve been to various Protestant churches…some discourage drinking, others prohibit it, and still others have no problem with it. I believe Catholics drink just like me. Since marijuana is now legal in Washington and Colorado, and medical marijuana is legal in many states, what do you believe about drinking and smoking pot?

Over indulging in anything is Gluttony.

The problem with Marijuana, unlike alcohol, is that even 3 days after its use, you may still be fined of DWI if you drive.
Yes, it stays effective in the body for about 5 to 7 days before it decreases fully to a ‘normal’ sober level.

 

[Mickey]

Again, I think this may be an example of confusing “feeling the effects”, where one becomes merrier

Merrier?!?

It is somewhat possible to control the effects of alcohol. A couple drinks can cause one to relax (or loosen up) a bit. Beyond that…the effect is drunkeness. Most of the Church Fathers talk about mixing water with wine…in which case it would be fairly difficult to feel any effect.

There are no “relaxed strains” of marijuana. Feeling the effects of marijuana is called “being stoned” (which happens relatively quickly).

Let’s not spin things here.

 

[doormouse73]

I will reiterate. Marijuana intoxication happens immediately…and there is no way to control it.

bang on the button…this man Mickey knows what he is talking about.

im afraid Mickey that some people only go so far in what they know about things,they never get or see the end result…they get lost in a dream of some sorts…

 

[Mickey]

im afraid Mickey that some people only go so far in what they know about things,they never get or see the end result…they get lost in a dream of some sorts…

Correct. It is absolutely unbelievable to me that any Christian could lobby for the legalization of a dangerous psychotropic gateway drug.

A sign of the times I suppose.

 

[Ghosty]

bang on the button…this man Mickey knows what he is talking about.

im afraid Mickey that some people only go so far in what they know about things,they never get or see the end result…they get lost in a dream of some sorts…

It depends entirely on the THC content, and THC/cannabidiol ratio, of the marijuana. Again, this has been tested and proven, and simply repeating falsehoods in the face of facts won’t change reality.

Saying one hit of marijuana gets you high is like saying one glass of alcohol will get you drunk. It actually depends on the individual’s body and the kind of alcohol consumed. A glass of beer is weaker than a volume equivalent of wine, and much weaker than the volume equivalent of Everclear. People actually used to say the same things about Absinthe as folks are saying here about marijuana, namely that it got you instantly high. Myths were made about the effects of wormwood used in absinthe, and the liquor was banned in many places. The reality, however, was simply that absinthe is stronger by volume than most liquors, and people didn’t know how to consume it moderately; they were drinking it like scotch and getting much drunker than they expected to as a result.

Marijuana is much the same because people don’t know how much THC is in what they are smoking, and a hit of one plant is not the same as another. One can use it without getting wasted, just as you can drink absinthe without getting drunk, but it’s hard to know what you’re getting without regulated measures, standards, and labelling, something legalization addresses.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Mickey]

It depends entirely on the THC content, and THC/cannabidiol ratio, of the marijuana. Again, this has been tested and proven, and simply repeating falsehoods in the face of facts won’t change reality.

I believe it is you who are repeating falsehoods. There is no such thing as…what you call, “relaxed strains.” And if there were such a creature…there would not be a market for it.

Saying one hit of marijuana gets you high is like saying one glass of alcohol will get you drunk.

That is absolutely false. A person knows they can have a drink and not be drunk. But one hit will get you high. This was the case even when I was in college 32 years ago. And it is even moreso today.

a hit of one plant is not the same as another.

Today’s pot is extremely potent. 32 years ago, one hit got you high. Today, one hit gets you REALLY high.

One can use it without getting wasted,

False.

it’s hard to know what you’re getting without regulated measures, standards, and labelling, something legalization addresses.

As I said earlier, if the states (or feds) would attempt to create some type of hybrid strain that somehow gets you “less high”…there would be no market for it and we would see the return of the “one hit” weed.

Furthermore, I offer this again:

CCC 2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. **Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. **

 

[spiritglove]

The drunkenness we all need to avoid is being too proud, or too arrogant, etc… the metaphorical ban on drunkenness really applies to these ideas. I am under orders to see creation “good” and to be “fruitful” from God himself. Much harm has come to many in the name of our war against drugs, and I have information pertinent to our public policy Here:

spiritglove.hubpages.com/hub/A-False-Sense-of-Security-A-Brief-Analysis-of-Police-Protection-In-America

Some measure of social justice is not being found in the war on drugs.

 

[CopticChristian]

It depends entirely on the THC content, and THC/cannabidiol ratio, of the marijuana. Again, this has been tested and proven, and simply repeating falsehoods in the face of facts won’t change reality.

Saying one hit of marijuana gets you high is like saying one glass of alcohol will get you drunk. It actually depends on the individual’s body and the kind of alcohol consumed. A glass of beer is weaker than a volume equivalent of wine, and much weaker than the volume equivalent of Everclear. People actually used to say the same things about Absinthe as folks are saying here about marijuana, namely that it got you instantly high. Myths were made about the effects of wormwood used in absinthe, and the liquor was banned in many places. The reality, however, was simply that absinthe is stronger by volume than most liquors, and people didn’t know how to consume it moderately; they were drinking it like scotch and getting much drunker than they expected to as a result.

Marijuana is much the same because people don’t know how much THC is in what they are smoking, and a hit of one plant is not the same as another. One can use it without getting wasted, just as you can drink absinthe without getting drunk, but it’s hard to know what you’re getting without regulated measures, standards, and labelling, something legalization addresses.

Peace and God bless!

Ghosty,

You sure are reasonable…

Reason me this

I like an occassional Gin and Tonic, glass of wine, Cognac

The lime taste is refreshing, wine has a sense of taste and smell, Cognac is nice to smell…just one drink…

Marijuana, just one toke…that is all…when do you reach the point of enjoyment in smoking that parallels the aforementioned experience with Alcohol?

 

[spiritglove]

In comparison, marijuana does not have the ability to get one drunk like alcohol does. It does not matter how much you smoke. Unlike alcohol which can take one to the point of total loss of self control. marijuana can only take to that point that 1 or maybe 2 drinks can take you. That is all, no more. People with experience know this. This myth that marijuana can make one lose control need to be put to rest they are simply not true.

 

[spiritglove]

THC only stays in your blood stream for about 18 hours (however effects last for only 4-6 hours). After marijuana enters the bloodstream, the liver converts it to a metabolite that has no effect, and cannot be considered for purposes for DUI.

 

[Ghosty]

Ghosty,

You sure are reasonable…

Reason me this

I like an occassional Gin and Tonic, glass of wine, Cognac

The lime taste is refreshing, wine has a sense of taste and smell, Cognac is nice to smell…just one drink…

Marijuana, just one toke…that is all…when do you reach the point of enjoyment in smoking that parallels the aforementioned experience with Alcohol?

It’s not “one toke and you’re high”. This idea has to stop being spouted as if it’s fact.

That said, it doesn’t matter what secondary enjoyments there are. Scripture praises the effects of alcohol, which affects the mind to varying degrees based on concentration and volume just as marijuana does, and carries similar effects at that. Some people do enjoy the smell of marijuana, and some people don’t like the taste and smell of wine. Someone who can’t stand the taste of alcohol will get more enjoyment from eating a marijuana brownie or smoking a joint if they like the smell.

In short, since the point of enjoyment is entirely subjective this isn’t a reasonable question.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Mickey]

In comparison, marijuana does not have the ability to get one drunk like alcohol does. It does not matter how much you smoke. Unlike alcohol which can take one to the point of total loss of self control. marijuana can only take to that point that 1 or maybe 2 drinks can take you. That is all, no more. People with experience know this. This myth that marijuana can make one lose control need to be put to rest they are simply not true.

Nonsense. Marijuana can make you stoned out of your mind. It can make you lose complete control of reality and perception. Some people hallucinate. It also can wratchet up your heart rate and put one at risk for heart attack.

You must not have very much experience with this drug…thank God for that.

 

[Mickey]

It’s not “one toke and you’re high”.

Yes it is. THC levels are very high.

This idea has to stop being spouted as if it’s fact.

It is a fact.

 

[Ghosty]

In comparison, marijuana does not have the ability to get one drunk like alcohol does. It does not matter how much you smoke. Unlike alcohol which can take one to the point of total loss of self control. marijuana can only take to that point that 1 or maybe 2 drinks can take you. That is all, no more. People with experience know this. This myth that marijuana can make one lose control need to be put to rest they are simply not true.

There may be some truth to this, that marijuana can’t get you to the same point of loss of control that alcohol can, but I don’t know how much research has been done on the subject. Speaking from experience, however, “blackouts” or “missing hours” certainly can happen with alcohol, and at a relatively small quantity imbibed for some people, but I’ve never heard of this happening with marijuana. Perhaps it does, as I’m not a marijuana user and I don’t spend much time with people who use large quantities of it, but anecdotally I know that I hear of and have seen alcohol blackouts with some regularity where large amounts of alcohol are consumed, but never anything similar with marijuana.

That said, the moral limit for intoxication is below “blackout”, and marijuana would seem to cross that limit after a certain amount. Marijuana doesn’t cause the impulsiveness that alcohol does (this has been verified in studies), but it can hinder reason, which is the cut-off point for moral use. If you’re at the point where you can’t think coherently (to test this, see if people who aren’t using pot can follow your thinking process) then you’ve gone too far, but this point isn’t necessarily reached by one toke, or even one whole joint. It all depends on the strength of the marijuana in question, and the amount consumed.

Peace and God bless!

 

[spiritglove]

It’s not “one toke and you’re high”. This idea has to stop being spouted as if it’s fact.

That said, it doesn’t matter what secondary enjoyments there are. Scripture praises the effects of alcohol, which affects the mind to varying degrees based on concentration and volume just as marijuana does, and carries similar effects at that. Some people do enjoy the smell of marijuana, and some people don’t like the taste and smell of wine. Someone who can’t stand the taste of alcohol will get more enjoyment from eating a marijuana brownie or smoking a joint if they like the smell.

In short, since the point of enjoyment is entirely subjective this isn’t a reasonable question.

Peace and God bless!

The active ingredient in the wine of ancient peoples was not just alcohol. In fact some ancient wines made from 'other" ingredients had to diluted 20 times because it was too strong. The ancients, including biblical authors hardly knew what alcohol was, and had no way of distillation to discover it.

 

[Mickey]

Marijuana doesn’t cause the impulsiveness that alcohol does

It causes gluttony, sloth, and paranoia.

but it can hinder reason

Yes. And after one toke.

but this point isn’t necessarily reached by one toke, or even one whole joint.

Only if you are smoking parsley.

 

[spiritglove]

With all due respect my Brother Mickey, my experience with helping patients who use marijuana spans over 30 years. I am surprised by the current controversy, considering the active ingredient of marijuana has already been legalized in most states for medical use under the name Marinol since the 1980’s. By my own (I dare say) experimentation, I have never reached the point of slurry speech, black out, loss of inhibitions or loss of motor control associated with alcohol. I would love to hear your report after some personal experience:extrahappy:

 

[Mickey]

With all due respect my Brother Mickey, my experience with helping patients who use marijuana spans over 30 years.

We are not talking about possible medicinal uses here. We are talking about legalization for recreational use. I am sad to admit…that I probably have had much more experience with this dangerous drug than most other people. But it is not something I talk about publically on a forum. Through may years, and repeated confessions, I have been able to conquer this scourge…by the grace of God. One thing that seems to be overlooked by the zealous liberals who are so happy that they can now walk into the heart of Seattle and light up a joint without repercussions…aside from the known effects…is the fact that it is a gateway drug. Legalization opens the door to generations of men and women who will experiment with other drugs because our state governments told them that pot is relatively harmless and legal.

How very sad.

 

[CopticChristian]

There may be some truth to this, that marijuana can’t get you to the same point of loss of control that alcohol can, but I don’t know how much research has been done on the subject. Speaking from experience, however, “blackouts” or “missing hours” certainly can happen with alcohol, and at a relatively small quantity imbibed for some people, but I’ve never heard of this happening with marijuana. Perhaps it does, as I’m not a marijuana user and I don’t spend much time with people who use large quantities of it, but anecdotally I know that I hear of and have seen alcohol blackouts with some regularity where large amounts of alcohol are consumed, but never anything similar with marijuana.

That said, the moral limit for intoxication is below “blackout”, and marijuana would seem to cross that limit after a certain amount. Marijuana doesn’t cause the impulsiveness that alcohol does (this has been verified in studies), but it can hinder reason, which is the cut-off point for moral use. If you’re at the point where you can’t think coherently (to test this, see if people who aren’t using pot can follow your thinking process) then you’ve gone too far, but this point isn’t necessarily reached by one toke, or even one whole joint. It all depends on the strength of the marijuana in question, and the amount consumed.

Peace and God bless!

Ghost,

Peace and God Bless,

Everyone including you can read a study that disproves your thinking…

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3325512/

However, the chronic tobacco/chronic marijuana users did show a higher level of impulsivity in comparison to the non-or-experimental tobacco/marijuana use group. Likewise, the chronic tobacco/maturing out marijuana users also demonstrated a higher level of impulsivity relative to the non-or-experimental tobacco/marijuana users.

Correct your thinking…

Check out this study in Africa…

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21514749

RESULTS: Multivariate multinomial logistic regressions show that childhood problem behaviors, adolescent family involvement, and dropping out of high school differentiated trajectory membership. Analyses comparing the trajectory groups on behavioral, social, and health outcomes at age 42 revealed that for both men and women, those in the persistent trajectory had the most problems, and those in the early adult decliner group also had specific problems. Male late starters also had poor outcomes.

and this…

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17087550

unemployed and unmarried in young adulthood and having children outside of marriage for both males and females. Dropping out of high school and more frequent adult marijuana use seem to be important parts of the pathway from adolescent marijuana use to negative life outcomes.

Peace and God Bless…

 

[joe370]

I’ve been to various Protestant churches…some discourage drinking, others prohibit it, and still others have no problem with it. I believe Catholics drink just like me. Since marijuana is now legal in Washington and Colorado, and medical marijuana is legal in many states, what do you believe about drinking and smoking pot?

Having a few drinks i.e. a casual drinker, such as one after dinner; no big deal IMHO. However, I have been a heavy drinker at times in my past and it was nothing but counterproductive in every aspect of my life, especially in my spiritual life; that’s an understatement; I had no spiritual life as a heavy drinker. Drinking excessively for me anyway, prevented Jesus’ grace from entering.

“For there a man makes greater progress and merits where he overcomes himself more and mortifies himself in spirit.” Imitation of Christ Great book; can be read on line.

Marijuana is illegal so it should be avoided. However, in my opinion alcohol is a lot worse in terms of altering one’s state. Legal marijuana is good for medical reasons e.g. cancer etc. It is legal now in some states and really helps with awful pain and nausea. God would not care in this particular instance IMHO.